FRENCH BORDERS CLOSED, STATE OF EMERGENCY

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
461

Winseer:
Historically, attempting to overthrow one’s rulers either resulted in a “win” and a successful ousting of a political leader, prince, king or caliph even - OR a “failed attempt” that resulted in a total brutalizing of those conspiritors involved.

I’m sure that if we actually had a faction get anywhere near close to overthrowing our own government - we’d see their own brutal response (their arses to the wall as they would be by this desperate point) that would remind us that ANYONE is capable of so-called “unspeakable acts”. The armed forces would be ordered to shoot protestors that appear to be supporting terrorists. If too many of HM forces are of the “wrong ethnicity” by this point, the crisis could blow up into civil war - unthinkable! I suspect the Government in this country has a special crack troop of throughbred Brits to deal with situations like this - to be deployed by COBRA.

“A desperate man - is at his most dangerous. Give him room, but watch him closely. From too close, he is as dangerous as a powder keg with a lit fuse. From too far away, you won’t know where he went when he melted into the crowd, until that crowd itself is torn asunder by the ensuing explosion you did too little to prevent…”

The proper way to deal with a deadly enemy is to “kill them all”, and make any peace to be won with those few civilians that remain.
You cannot reconcile with a fanatic. You cannot trust any treaty with a fanatic. You can therefore never win the peace that involves any fanatical faction.

The correct next moves:

(1) Russia annexes the Kurdish region of Turkey, and immediately hands it over to the Kurds as their new official homeland. If it can be done with Serbia - it can be done again for the Kurds.

(2) NATO restrains Turkey from doing anything about (1) - because they’ve now put Russia in an impossible position - lose all face, or retaliate in a way that can only weaken Turkey.
Russia moving to create a homeland for the Kurds therefore - is a internationally acceptable way to “punish” Turkey by merely moving up the agenda something they’ve been kicking into the long grass for too long already.

(3) The French bomb where they please in the region, and shoot down any plane that approaches them. The Russians will step out of the way - and let the French get on with it.

(4) NATO approach the UN to try and stop 1-4 happening - only to get Vetoed by China.

(5) “Boots on the ground” is the only way NATO forces can hope to have a piece of what remains. No boots = Let the region go the way it’s going to. An Isolated Turkey, A new state of Kurdistan, “No change” in Syria, and stability returning to the other Arab states.

(6) No one gives a ■■■■ what Israel thinks of all this. Let 'em stew.

That sounds as bad as what we’ve got.

I’d go with expulsion of Turkey from NATO and disarmament of same.Make a deal with Russia that we won’t interfere with it’s operations in Syria and Assad stays.

We’ll disarm the Saudis and Russia disarms the Iranians,including both Iran’s and Saudi’s nuclear ambitions respectively.We create the Kurdish homeland which will be a neutral but well armed buffer zone.Israel is requested to join NATO with all NATO operations in Turkey transferred between there and Greece together with Cyprus. :bulb:

Phased programme of deportation/repatriation of Europe’s Islamic population.

462

Dolph:
P.S. Christianity had a very dark period in Medieval Europe, but it was 500 years ago, we got over it, now is 21 century, where the very same jihad schmucks use Iphone, electricity, vehicles, planes, internet etc. and claim they want to live in 7th century Caliphate.

Carryfast +1, right on the money, but the problem is that some muslims want us to become like them and their backward religion to rule the world…

Christianity’s dark days didn’t end 500 years ago. Most of our current laws are based on ancient Christian doctrine. I think it’s ok to covet your neighbours sheep now, but it was only 50 odd years ago when we were imprisoning and chemicaly castrating homosexuals. There is still a large proportion of the population that want to bring back the death penalty, unlike America which still has it and is still prepared to execute mentally handicapped people. And as for empire building, the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen (may need to check on that) which is still in place under the cuddly name of “The Commonwealth”.
Judging a society on current western moralities doesn’t work. As far as the middle east is concerned, if they didn’t have something we wanted, we wouldn’t care what they did (unless they start shooting and bombing us, and that came after we interfered).

463

Captain Caveman 76:

Dolph:
P.S. Christianity had a very dark period in Medieval Europe, but it was 500 years ago, we got over it, now is 21 century, where the very same jihad schmucks use Iphone, electricity, vehicles, planes, internet etc. and claim they want to live in 7th century Caliphate.

Carryfast +1, right on the money, but the problem is that some muslims want us to become like them and their backward religion to rule the world…

Christianity’s dark days didn’t end 500 years ago. Most of our current laws are based on ancient Christian doctrine. I think it’s ok to covet your neighbours sheep now, but it was only 50 odd years ago when we were imprisoning and chemicaly castrating homosexuals. There is still a large proportion of the population that want to bring back the death penalty, unlike America which still has it and is still prepared to execute mentally handicapped people. And as for empire building, the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen (may need to check on that) which is still in place under the cuddly name of “The Commonwealth”.
Judging a society on current western moralities doesn’t work. As far as the middle east is concerned, if they didn’t have something we wanted, we wouldn’t care what they did (unless they start shooting and bombing us, and that came after we interfered).

The above is tenuous to say the least.

Some people wish to bring back the death penalty here too. But this isn’t isolated to Christianity. Many UK athesists are proponents of the death penalty. Inconveniently for the basis of your argument being this is a demanded by Christianity, the UK Church is against the death penalty.

What has empire building to do with this? The Empire was not created as an act of religious scripture. It was power and control, simple. Religion had nothing to do with it.

We have an industrial level of world terrorism carried out by such large corporate terrorists groups, they can be considered paramilitary armies in their size. And this is all carried it in the name of one religion. No other tenuous reason.

Im not particularly religious. However, why does Christianity always get a kicking every time one of these huge corporate Islamic terrorist groups murders enmass? This habit is really starting to ■■■■ me off. It’s so typically British to do this.

Why after these events, do you hear very little from the Islamic community at large other than whining “we’re not all the same”. Yet when it’s quiet times, they’re all over it like a rash with their demands? I’m sorry but I believe it’s quite right and natural for the community to feel the heat of questions, as there’s been sod all help from them other than whining.

If Christians were the groups, the Church of England would not be so ■■■■ mute. Canterbury Cathedral would fall on their sword over it as they always do. They’re even doing it now and it’s not even their fault! Everyone would want blood if Christians were doing this. I’d bet you would pluck out of the air “ooh yeah. But what about the Muslims?”

We need to stick to the point of who’s name this is supposedly being done in the name of, stop beying to the whining and demand proper help from a very powerful world religion that is more than capable of putting its mouth out there when it chooses. But guess what, that ain’t gonna happen.

464

Captain Caveman 76:

Dolph:
P.S. Christianity had a very dark period in Medieval Europe, but it was 500 years ago, we got over it, now is 21 century, where the very same jihad schmucks use Iphone, electricity, vehicles, planes, internet etc. and claim they want to live in 7th century Caliphate.

Carryfast +1, right on the money, but the problem is that some muslims want us to become like them and their backward religion to rule the world…

Christianity’s dark days didn’t end 500 years ago. Most of our current laws are based on ancient Christian doctrine. I think it’s ok to covet your neighbours sheep now, but it was only 50 odd years ago when we were imprisoning and chemicaly castrating homosexuals. There is still a large proportion of the population that want to bring back the death penalty, unlike America which still has it and is still prepared to execute mentally handicapped people. And as for empire building, the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen (may need to check on that) which is still in place under the cuddly name of “The Commonwealth”.
Judging a society on current western moralities doesn’t work. As far as the middle east is concerned, if they didn’t have something we wanted, we wouldn’t care what they did (unless they start shooting and bombing us, and that came after we interfered).

More apologist bs.

465

Most people I worked with who were Muslims were “spot on”. It’s not hard to be spot on day to day, have a laugh etc. Systemic beliefs lie deeper than day to day. I’m not talking terrorist desires. Just indicators that were concerning about the way the belief system works and how it views other, justifies violence and advocates violence and oppression. Be it from how women are treated to how a non believer is viewed.

In my humble experience of discussing weighter subjects with Muslim colleagues more than having a bit of banter with, some of what I heard was odd to severely concerning. It was quite a shock to see a work mate who you’d been laughing with come out with some of these thoughts. And this stuff is not just believed in a passing way. The oddest discussion was indeed with a very prominent Doctor. However, discussing religion with him made me extremely concerned to say the least as to what he believed.

Fair enough if it was harmless stuff, but the viewpoints I heard when you dig and discuss were very far from harmless if they indeed applied to the system as a whole.

I travelled to the ME very liberal on the topic and quite an apologist for them in fact. If I had limited my experiences to reading the press releases by UK religious speakers in the UK media or not experienced more than “a laugh” day to day with work colleagues I may have formed a more ignorant view and filled in the gaps myself using typical UK benefit of the doubt. However it was some events and heavy discussions with people I formerly quite liked that formed my deep concerns about the system and it’s goals.

466

Freight Dog:

Captain Caveman 76:

Dolph:
P.S. Christianity had a very dark period in Medieval Europe, but it was 500 years ago, we got over it, now is 21 century, where the very same jihad schmucks use Iphone, electricity, vehicles, planes, internet etc. and claim they want to live in 7th century Caliphate.

Carryfast +1, right on the money, but the problem is that some muslims want us to become like them and their backward religion to rule the world…

Christianity’s dark days didn’t end 500 years ago. Most of our current laws are based on ancient Christian doctrine. I think it’s ok to covet your neighbours sheep now, but it was only 50 odd years ago when we were imprisoning and chemicaly castrating homosexuals. There is still a large proportion of the population that want to bring back the death penalty, unlike America which still has it and is still prepared to execute mentally handicapped people. And as for empire building, the British Empire was the largest the world has ever seen (may need to check on that) which is still in place under the cuddly name of “The Commonwealth”.
Judging a society on current western moralities doesn’t work. As far as the middle east is concerned, if they didn’t have something we wanted, we wouldn’t care what they did (unless they start shooting and bombing us, and that came after we interfered).

The above is tenuous to say the least.

It was written in response to someone who was IMO trying to take the moral high ground and was written using what I remember. I have never been to the middle east, but I know people who have. The things they have told me have shocked and surprised me. Is it Saudi Arabia that has the “infidels highway”?

Some people wish to bring back the death penalty here too. But this isn’t isolated to Christianity. Many UK athesists are proponents of the death penalty. Inconveniently for the basis of your argument being this is a demanded by Christianity, the UK Church is against the death penalty.
The death penalty is one of the biggest criticisms of the middle east, I think it important to point out that many people in this “Christian country” want it brought back. Granted, not necessarily for adultery or blasphemy though.

What has empire building to do with this? The Empire was not created as an act of religious scripture. It was power and control, simple. Religion had nothing to do with it.
It was in response to somebodies comment on Muslim expansion and wanting to create a Muslim empire, stating it as another example of how they are evil. TBH I’ve forgotten the point I was trying to make!

We have an industrial level of world terrorism carried out by such large corporate terrorists groups, they can be considered paramilitary armies in their size. And this is all carried it in the name of one religion. No other tenuous reason.
Agreed, but to judge a religion based on just those who use it to further their own ambitions is like saying all Millwall FC fans are thugs because they support Millwall.

Im not particularly religious. However, why does Christianity always get a kicking every time one of these huge corporate Islamic terrorist groups murders enmass? This habit is really starting to ■■■■ me off. It’s so typically British to do this.
One of the benefits of not being religious is being able to kick any religion, Muslim, Hindu or Christianity when I think they’re in the wrong. I get hacked off by people who use Christianity as an example of perfection, its history is just as dark as that of Muslims. As was quoted (or misquoted) by someone I cant remember: “religion is far from unique in its ability to make bad men do good, it is however almost unique in its ability to make good men do bad”. You may get from this that my problem is religion in general.

Why after these events, do you hear very little from the Islamic community at large other than whining “we’re not all the same”. Yet when it’s quiet times, they’re all over it like a rash with their demands? I’m sorry but I believe it’s quite right and natural for the community to feel the heat of questions, as there’s been sod all help from them other than whining.
Agree 100%

If Christians were the groups, the Church of England would not be so ■■■■ mute. Canterbury Cathedral would fall on their sword over it as they always do. They’re even doing it now and it’s not even their fault! Everyone would want blood if Christians were doing this. I’d bet you would pluck out of the air “ooh yeah. But what about the Muslims?”

We need to stick to the point of who’s name this is supposedly being done in the name of, stop beying to the whining and demand proper help from a very powerful world religion that is more than capable of putting its mouth out there when it chooses. Only partly agree, yes it is being done in the name of religion, but again, its been used by people to further their own ambitions and isn’t necessarily the common view. Until recently Turkey was viewed as a moderate Muslim country and was never considered a threat.
But guess what, that ain’t gonna happen.I hope for all our sakes that it does.

Carryfast:
More apologist bs.

Hardly, this is a situation much more complex than “they’re evil we’re good”, and the sad fact is that some of it may well be the result of our own meddling. Meddling that was done to serve our own needs/desires/interests.
I’m not condoning what they’ve done/are doing and I’m certainly not going to apologise for them, but if you stick your nose into something you don’t understand and where it isn’t wanted, don’t be surprised if it gets bloodied.

467

I just learned that Islam, Judaism and Christianity had their beginnings courtesy of the same person … Abraham, learn summit new every day.

468

the maoster:
Maybe the French should consider closing the border at Calais. Perhaps it’ll save the needless death that will surely happen before something is done. Just as well this guy was in a left ■■■■■■…

:open_mouth: That is bloody disgraceful, no ifs or buts some driver WILL be killed, it’s just a matter of time.
Things have definitely got out of hand since I was last over if that pic is any indication.

469

Captain Caveman 76:

Carryfast:
More apologist bs.

Hardly, this is a situation much more complex than “they’re evil we’re good”, and the sad fact is that some of it may well be the result of our own meddling. Meddling that was done to serve our own needs/desires/interests.
I’m not condoning what they’ve done/are doing and I’m certainly not going to apologise for them, but if you stick your nose into something you don’t understand and where it isn’t wanted, don’t be surprised if it gets bloodied.

This is a situation no more complex than the similar type of ‘issues’ which we had with ■■■■ Germany.Except now we’re dealing with an enemy which is a lot cleverer,in terms of it’s use of deception and infiltration,to achieve a similar goal.The latest of which being an obvious plan to play off the old cold war animosities against each other using Turkish infiltration of NATO.The really scary bit being that our governments are either too stupid to understand their game or,like Merkel and Obama,even possibly complicit in it.

470

Captain Caveman 76:
Only partly agree, yes it is being done in the name of religion, but again, its been used by people to further their own ambitions and isn’t necessarily the common view…

This really drives to the heart of the matter. There is quite a tendency to completely separate the whole terrorist issue from the wider, as if the two bore no relation to each other.

The subject is like catnip to the UK press. Depending on it’s mood, it either seeks to publicise the views of very cleverly placed, eminent Muslim speakers who seek to portray “Islam lite” to reassure a western mind - OR- completely vilify and any religion as all being the different cheeks of the same arse. Neither is correct.

Normally in relative times of quiet security there is a background soundtrack on the UK media from Islamic scholars, speakers, and pressure groups grinding everybody down with their incessant overbearing nagging about Islamic rights. Does it not strike you as odd this background noise drops after terrorist attacks?

There’s a reason. Not because there’s 1.6 billion nefarious maniacs busy buying gun polish: They’re at odds, there’s disdain at the violence but ultimately they’re more concerned with protecting the PR job of Islam than sticking their necks out and showing any dirty laundry.

The whole job in principle is not as separate as people have been bought to believe. Many disagree vehemently with the violence, however some of the wider (non violent) principles align with teachings. And it’s the wider aims that are arguably more dangerous to long term social security than the terrorism we are talking about.

The book does advocate a hell of a lot of violence, so you can bet your head that if it were universally agreed by Islam that we do as infidels need to die at the end of a sword, we’d be doing so. They don’t defy that book. See Saudi and beheadings for a classic case in point of justified violence. See stoning of women.

471

raymundo:
I just learned that Islam, Judaism and Christianity had their beginnings courtesy of the same person … Abraham, learn summit new every day.

It all gets a bit more complicated after that point. :wink: :laughing:

472

Captain Caveman 76:
You may get from this that my problem is religion in general.

Just for chats sake, incidentally the statement of having a problem with religion in general always falls deafeningly awkward in response on the subject of apologetics. I’m actually on the fence but recognise the flaws aren’t one way.

The atheist way, instinct driven alone was more blood thirsty than what you’re seeing now. It was Theism that finally galvanised mankind to feel a sense of justification of self actions. A moral fortitude.

21st century atheism conveniently hijacks the moral homework done by many a religion as its own. As if in a make believe world of non religion an absence of Theism would have transported mankind away from violent instinct of its beginnings into the questioning beings we are. Beings that we all recognise harbour instincts and behaviours that are at odds with our “values” or “morals”. Morals that are at odds with our behavioural nature and that we all suffer an internal fight with day after day.

If Theism never existed, by Darwins worth, we’d be on a very different path. So it plays to think before saying the problem is “all religion”. We’re not afforded the alternative view. But I wouldn’t hold my breath that it would be roses.

473

Freight Dog:
If Theism never existed, by Darwins worth, we’d be on a very different path. So it plays to think before saying the problem is “all religion”. We’re not afforded the alternative view. But I wouldn’t hold my breath that it would be roses.

The big question being what if there was never any opposing force to Islam fighting under their more or less religious groups.It’s a reasonable bet that the Eurasian landmass would have been under an Islamic State type regime since at least the 15th century maybe before. :open_mouth:

historyofjihad.org/russia.html

474

Carryfast:

Freight Dog:
If Theism never existed, by Darwins worth, we’d be on a very different path. So it plays to think before saying the problem is “all religion”. We’re not afforded the alternative view. But I wouldn’t hold my breath that it would be roses.

The big question being what if there was never any opposing force to Islam fighting under their more or less religious groups.It’s a reasonable bet that the Eurasian landmass would have been under an Islamic State type regime since at least the 15th century maybe before. :open_mouth:

historyofjihad.org/russia.html

Thank goodness that didn’t happen. Then again, morals which we judge the present terror to be wrong wouldn’t have been instilled in us.

Maybe worse would’ve been an imagined past devoid of Theism altogether, where moral code relies upon Humanism or Existentialism. Good luck with that. Morals open to change as you see fit to suit. Actually then again, I wouldn’t worry. Humanists and Existentialists have a hard time explaining how their moral code would have come to fruition against Darwinian theory and instinct :laughing:

475

Of relevance for discussion;-

Channel 4 now (0010 on 27th November). “Isis: The British Women”

476

Stuff their Human Rights, anyone sprouting hatred outside a mosque against their host country should be made to disappear, and their family deported straight away, show as much sympathy towards them as they show us !

477

Freight Dog:
Of relevance for discussion;-

Channel 4 now (0010 on 27th November). “Isis: The British Women”

Thanks FD, I wouldn’t have known about it otherwise.

478

the maoster:
Maybe the French should consider closing the border at Calais. Perhaps it’ll save the needless death that will surely happen before something is done. Just as well this guy was in a left ■■■■■■…

Is there a story behind this, I can’t find anything in the media about it. thrown from a bridge into moving truck ?

Stuff like that is just horrific and should be getting national coverage.

479

Time to throw off the shackles and start getting bloody tough with them and all their supporters like I’ve just been watching on channel 4, it’s not what we as natives of our country want or should be expected to tolerate. My grand kids and their offspring do not want to grow up in a muslim UK !!

480

The danger with programs is, to indeed think that ALL Muslims as individuals think the same as this, they don’t. Clearly the young lady risking her life on filming this thinks differently. There’s many shades of grey and good people in there locked and sold into an ideology that is open to abuse, power and dictatorship.

As this program shows, being so engulfed in that belief system with strong amd controversial views makes them vulnerable, even that young lady. That I guess was my point all along. It’s the belief system that is dangerous to the west. Apologetics or not, no other singular system provides such a pipe feed to a stream of potential dangerous ideology that is a threat to others, respect for differing beliefs and individual choices in life.