last week i was on the phone to someone who has been in the job for twenty odd years.
we were chatting about where he could park without going over his 15 hour spread. we decided that monmouth would be ideal. he would get there at about 8pm, so he said that he would take 11 hours off and go at 7am. i told him that if he wanted to take an 11, then he should have only worked a 13 hour day, as it all has to be done in a 24 hour period.
“well that’s [zb]ing stupid, why have less rest for working more hours, and more rest for working less hours?”
he has a prety good point really.
ok, he should have known better, but he has always done the job safely, but his way to suit himself. he is now trying to do it by the book, but it’s not an easy transition.
Nothing to stop him taking 11 hours rest at that point and going at 7AM, or later if he wished. Because he has worked 15 he doesn’t have to start 9 hours later, it just means he has used one of his reduced daily rest periods, so he can still have more rest for working more.
Coffeeholic:
Nothing to stop him taking 11 hours rest at that point and going at 7AM, or later if he wished. Because he has worked 15 he doesn’t have to start 9 hours later, it just means he has used one of his reduced daily rest periods, so he can still have more rest for working more.
i know what you mean coffee, he could take anything he wants, as long as it’s more than 9.
but taking an 11 after a 15 hour day would still count as a reduced rest wouldn’t it? unless he has taken 3 hours unbroken rest before.
The rules can be a complete pain in the ■■■ but once you have a reasonable grasp of them they are quite workable and do help to protect drivers from “overbearing” employers. My boss being an employer who tries to baffle his drivers with BS to get the result he wants regardles of the law.
A fine example coming last week when he ran a guy up scotch from the midlands on a friday knowing his 90 would be up when he got there on friday. He told the guy to have 24 off and run back saturday night knowing full well his 90 wouldn’t reset til midnight sun/mon. The unwitting driver happily ran back home sat night and was horified when he checked his card to see he had racked up 96 hrs in a fortnight! A clasic example of why we all need to know the law!
i did mean to ask about this 90 hour rule.
so lets say you work 6 days, mon to sat. do a full 56 hours.
you take a 24 off and then get to 90 hours by wednesday night.
do you have to park up until 00.00 monday?
As I understand it yes. I did the working time regs and tacho law module of the CPC last november and the instructor was pretty clear about it. If you drive 56 hrs one week you can only do 34 hrs the next. How you spread those hours out is up to you. For example you could do four 7hr drives and one 6hr drive to make sure you still get 5 days out of it but the 90 hrs is set in stone
As I understand it taking 11 hours rest after a 15 hour shift would not count as a reduced rest and that other chap should’ve been ok to take a 24hr rest and then drive back down as it would have been a new week. Maybe, he left a minute or two early, even this small amount would mean the tacho would not take the 24hr weekly rest in to account. He then would just have had to make up his weekly rest in the future. The old split shift rule used to be if you had four hours uninterupted rest in your shift, you could then take 8 hours daily rest and this would not count as a reduced rest. Don’t think you can use this anymore.
Silver_Surfer:
As I understand it taking 11 hours rest after a 15 hour shift would not count as a reduced rest
It will be a reduced daily rest because the rest and the shift added together must fit into 24 hours
15 + 11 = 26 hours !!
Silver_Surfer:
that other chap should’ve been ok to take a 24hr rest and then drive back down as it would have been a new week
For the driving hours - A week is from mon 0000 to sun 2400 so a new week will start on mon 0000
There are two sorts of week
The fixed week from mon 0000 to sun 2400 and the work done between weekly rests
Driving time is determined by what is done in the fixed week - max 10 hours twice
Reduced daily rests are determined by the period between weekly rests - max reduced daily rests three times
Hhmmm , so the Scotch runner reducing to 24 off to get home but by the end fortnight that makes a ■■■■ good lenthy few days off to make up lost rest period.
Ie.
45 off end of fortnight (90) + plus the Hours reduced from 24 short rest = 66 ,
plus any weekly reduced to 9s lets say x 6 = 12 hrs . Total comes to 78hrs end of fortnight = 3 full days off :smiley: fri finish - tuesday restart, nice weekend off
Now lets say he had reduced his 1st weekend break to a 36 off and thats another 11 hrs to add on .
78 + 11 = 89 .
Weds restart now , that now in effect gives you 1 week off in every 5 .
All well and good if you have plenty of drivers , but not for the smaller firms.
I have to admit that I do not have a 100% grasp of the regs but I think I know the general everyday/week basics.
From reading some posts on this site it is clear that many have not grasped those basics…
… perhaps the idea of a drivers hours course for the periodic driver cpc is not such a bad idea■■?
trux:
Hhmmm , so the Scotch runner reducing to 24 off to get home but by the end fortnight that makes a ■■■■ good lenthy few days off to make up lost rest period.
Ie.
45 off end of fortnight (90) + plus the Hours reduced from 24 short rest = 66 ,
plus any weekly reduced to 9s lets say x 6 = 12 hrs . Total comes to 78hrs end of fortnight = 3 full days off :smiley: fri finish - tuesday restart, nice weekend off
Now lets say he had reduced his 1st weekend break to a 36 off and thats another 11 hrs to add on .
78 + 11 = 89 .
Weds restart now , that now in effect gives you 1 week off in every 5 .
All well and good if you have plenty of drivers , but not for the smaller firms.
are you saying that you have to repay reduced nightly rest? because you don’t.
Ooops ,
yes just spotted that Rog` + l/phil , sorry .
You are correct in saying reduced daily rest does not need compensation .
erm quick recalculation me thinks
minus - 12 and book a days holiday
Can`t fault a bloke trying to have some time off can you ■■
A driver may reduce his daily rest period to no less than 9 continuous hours, but this can be done
no more than three times between any two weekly rest periods, and no compensation for the reduction is required. A daily rest that is less than 11 hours but at least 9 hours long is called a
reduced daily rest period.
In any two consecutive weeks a driver shall take at least:
– two regular weekly rest periods, or
– one regular weekly rest period and one reduced weekly
rest period of at least 24 hours. However, the reduction
shall be compensated by an equivalent period of rest
taken en bloc before the end of the third week following
the week in question.
A weekly rest period shall start no later than at the end of six
24-hour periods from the end of the previous weekly rest
period.
.
Quick read up and clarify and jobs a goodun dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/ … sgoods.pdf
Phil , i think you`ve answered your own post really , transition can be awkward when trying to run all hrs God sends .
And you wonder why VOSA are so busy keeping a check ■■ speaks volumes … lol …
Paying back reduced weekly rest - rests shown as possible minimums but can be more
week 1 … 45 - no payback needed
week 2 … 24 so 21 to pay back
week 3 … 45 - payback from week 2 still owing
week 4 … 45 but used as reduced of 24 plus 21 payback from week 2 - leaves a NEW 21 to pay back
week 5 … must be 45 as reduced was taken in week 4
week 6 …
The NEW reduced weekly rest in week 4 must now be paid back in full by sun 2400 of week 7 (edit)
(not exactly the way it is written in the regs but I think it means the same - a GURU will soon say if not)
Spot on there Rog. Tried to explain it all to my mate. Gave up in the end and told him the simplest way to do it was to make sure that he only had one 24 off for every three weeks as when he does get two days off in a row, it usually totals up to 60hrs so two weekends off in a row compensates for the 24hr weekend.
ROG:
Paying back reduced weekly rest - rests shown as possible minimums but can be more
week 1 … 45 - no payback needed
week 2 … 24 so 21 to pay back
week 3 … 45 - payback from week 2 still owing
week 4 … 45 but used as reduced of 24 plus 21 payback from week 2 - leaves a NEW 21 to pay back
week 5 … must be 45 as reduced was taken in week 4
week 6 …
That’s OK, but the 21 hours could have been left until week 5 to pay back, no legal requirement to do it in week 4 in this example.
Coffeeholic:
Nothing to stop him taking 11 hours rest at that point and going at 7AM, or later if he wished. Because he has worked 15 he doesn’t have to start 9 hours later, it just means he has used one of his reduced daily rest periods, so he can still have more rest for working more.
i know what you mean coffee, he could take anything he wants, as long as it’s more than 9.
but taking an 11 after a 15 hour day would still count as a reduced rest wouldn’t it? unless he has taken 3 hours unbroken rest before.
It would. 24 - 15 = 9 so it cannot be anything but one of his reductions. It’s not as daft as it seems when you remember the regulations are built around the amount of rest in 24 hours, less than 11 in 24 is obviously a reduction from the required amount. Work 13 hours and you are not reducing your daily rest, work 13 hours and 1 minute and you are.
Conor:
Spot on there Rog. Tried to explain it all to my mate. Gave up in the end and told him the simplest way to do it was to make sure that he only had one 24 off for every three weeks as when he does get two days off in a row, it usually totals up to 60hrs so two weekends off in a row compensates for the 24hr weekend.
How? Unless you are using the term ‘24 hour weekend’ to mean a reduced weekly rest rather than actually 24 hours that isn’t going to work. 60 hours less 45 hour regular weekly rest = 15 hours yet he has 21 to pay back if he has taken a 24 hour weekly rest. That is only going to work if his reduced weekly rest period is not less than 30 hours. He can’t make it work by counting one of the 60 hour weekends as a reduced + compensation otherwise he will be having reduced weekly rests in two consecutive weeks.
so the Scotch runner reducing to 24 off to get home but by the end fortnight that makes a ■■■■ good lenthy few days off to make up lost rest period.
.
