Hi all
I work freelance ( Ltd co) I took on some work, arrived on site at required time, spoke to boss man, licence checks etc all good. ok out in the yard 3 trucks, he says take your pick. Walk round checks, no O license displayed, back to office boss man says 'yes i know. the vehicles only arrived on Friday and the reg numbers were added online over the weekend and licence will arrive by post during the week ’ (sounds plausible; 28 days grace for O licence?).
During the week coming down the A303 loads of police so knew some thing not right.I get pulled into Cartgate by police/vosa checks. Turns out this guy does not have a O license but I get opportunity to pay a £200 F.P.N. Then spent 3 hour in Cartgate on phone to boss (and vosa using my phone to speak to him! but of course i have no idea whats been said between them). Told by vosa to tip the load and park up which I did. I met boss man on the side of the road. He says give me the ticket and I will pay it. I then took his car back to the yard; he took the lorry???on up the road!
As a driver there is no way for me check if the said vehicle is coverd by a Valid O license. I thought that O license offences were dealt with by the traffic commissioners
A week later I phoned boss man he claims to have paid and has receipt but I can’t get or see it. I have phoned the central ticket office several times since then, and of course it is still not paid!
Time is running out …do I
a) Pay up, look happy and put it down to experience?
b)Take it to court and then have to pay up and look happy?
c) Pay up and sue him for the money? (can you sue for a fine?)
Technically it is the operator who should be fined not the driver as there is no way to check and it is the operators responsibility to have an operators licence or he shouldn’t be using the vehicle for business purposes.
Still not been paid for the work either! Another profitable month. HA HA!!!
Any ideas of what to do next gratefully received.
Rvyper:
Hi all
I work freelance ( Ltd co) I took on some work, arrived on site at required time, spoke to boss man, licence checks etc all good. ok out in the yard 3 trucks, he says take your pick. Walk round checks, no O license displayed, back to office boss man says 'yes i know. the vehicles only arrived on Friday and the reg numbers were added online over the weekend and licence will arrive by post during the week ’ (sounds plausible; 28 days grace for O licence?).
During the week coming down the A303 loads of police so knew some thing not right.I get pulled into Cartgate by police/vosa checks. Turns out this guy does not have a O license but I get opportunity to pay a £200 F.P.N. Then spent 3 hour in Cartgate on phone to boss (and vosa using my phone to speak to him! but of course i have no idea whats been said between them). Told by vosa to tip the load and park up which I did. I met boss man on the side of the road. He says give me the ticket and I will pay it. I then took his car back to the yard; he took the lorry???on up the road!
As a driver there is no way for me check if the said vehicle is coverd by a Valid O license. I thought that O license offences were dealt with by the traffic commissioners
A week later I phoned boss man he claims to have paid and has receipt but I can’t get or see it. I have phoned the central ticket office several times since then, and of course it is still not paid!
Time is running out …do I
a) Pay up, look happy and put it down to experience?
b)Take it to court and then have to pay up and look happy?
c) Pay up and sue him for the money? (can you sue for a fine?)
Technically it is the operator who should be fined not the driver as there is no way to check and it is the operators responsibility to have an operators licence or he shouldn’t be using the vehicle for business purposes.
Still not been paid for the work either! Another profitable month. HA HA!!!
Any ideas of what to do next gratefully received.
Who issued the F.P.N.? also contact V.O.|S.A. and give them all the info on the so called operator address ect see if you can get them on your side for prosecution of said boss man.
Rvyper:
Hi all
I work freelance ( Ltd co) I took on some work, arrived on site at required time, spoke to boss man, licence checks etc all good. ok out in the yard 3 trucks, he says take your pick. Walk round checks, no O license displayed, back to office boss man says 'yes i know. the vehicles only arrived on Friday and the reg numbers were added online over the weekend and licence will arrive by post during the week ’ (sounds plausible; 28 days grace for O licence?).
During the week coming down the A303 loads of police so knew some thing not right.I get pulled into Cartgate by police/vosa checks. Turns out this guy does not have a O license but I get opportunity to pay a £200 F.P.N. Then spent 3 hour in Cartgate on phone to boss (and vosa using my phone to speak to him! but of course i have no idea whats been said between them). Told by vosa to tip the load and park up which I did. I met boss man on the side of the road. He says give me the ticket and I will pay it. I then took his car back to the yard; he took the lorry???on up the road!
As a driver there is no way for me check if the said vehicle is coverd by a Valid O license. I thought that O license offences were dealt with by the traffic commissioners
A week later I phoned boss man he claims to have paid and has receipt but I can’t get or see it. I have phoned the central ticket office several times since then, and of course it is still not paid!
Time is running out …do I
a) Pay up, look happy and put it down to experience?
b)Take it to court and then have to pay up and look happy?
c) Pay up and sue him for the money? (can you sue for a fine?)
Technically it is the operator who should be fined not the driver as there is no way to check and it is the operators responsibility to have an operators licence or he shouldn’t be using the vehicle for business purposes.
Still not been paid for the work either! Another profitable month. HA HA!!!
Any ideas of what to do next gratefully received.
did you check on vosa website see if he had o/licence otherwise i would not touch them with a barge pole only takes 10 mins
Rvyper:
Hi all
I work freelance ( Ltd co) I took on some work, arrived on site at required time, spoke to boss man, licence checks etc all good. ok out in the yard 3 trucks, he says take your pick. Walk round checks, no O license displayed, back to office boss man says 'yes i know. the vehicles only arrived on Friday and the reg numbers were added online over the weekend and licence will arrive by post during the week ’ (sounds plausible; 28 days grace for O licence?).
During the week coming down the A303 loads of police so knew some thing not right.I get pulled into Cartgate by police/vosa checks. Turns out this guy does not have a O license but I get opportunity to pay a £200 F.P.N. Then spent 3 hour in Cartgate on phone to boss (and vosa using my phone to speak to him! but of course i have no idea whats been said between them). Told by vosa to tip the load and park up which I did. I met boss man on the side of the road. He says give me the ticket and I will pay it. I then took his car back to the yard; he took the lorry???on up the road!
As a driver there is no way for me check if the said vehicle is coverd by a Valid O license. I thought that O license offences were dealt with by the traffic commissioners
A week later I phoned boss man he claims to have paid and has receipt but I can’t get or see it. I have phoned the central ticket office several times since then, and of course it is still not paid!
Time is running out …do I
a) Pay up, look happy and put it down to experience?
b)Take it to court and then have to pay up and look happy?
c) Pay up and sue him for the money? (can you sue for a fine?)
Technically it is the operator who should be fined not the driver as there is no way to check and it is the operators responsibility to have an operators licence or he shouldn’t be using the vehicle for business purposes.
Still not been paid for the work either! Another profitable month. HA HA!!!
Any ideas of what to do next gratefully received.
did you check on vosa website see if he had o/licence otherwise i would not touch them with a barge pole only takes 10 mins
And how are you meant to do that when he’s stood there with the keys in his hand and ready to wave you off? What, just say to them “excuse me a moment, do you have a computer I can use to check that you’re not lying?”. Some really dim people on this site…
Rvyper:
Hi all
I work freelance ( Ltd co) I took on some work, arrived on site at required time, spoke to boss man, licence checks etc all good. ok out in the yard 3 trucks, he says take your pick. Walk round checks, no O license displayed, back to office boss man says 'yes i know. the vehicles only arrived on Friday and the reg numbers were added online over the weekend and licence will arrive by post during the week ’ (sounds plausible; 28 days grace for O licence?).
During the week coming down the A303 loads of police so knew some thing not right.I get pulled into Cartgate by police/vosa checks. Turns out this guy does not have a O license but I get opportunity to pay a £200 F.P.N. Then spent 3 hour in Cartgate on phone to boss (and vosa using my phone to speak to him! but of course i have no idea whats been said between them). Told by vosa to tip the load and park up which I did. I met boss man on the side of the road. He says give me the ticket and I will pay it. I then took his car back to the yard; he took the lorry???on up the road!
As a driver there is no way for me check if the said vehicle is coverd by a Valid O license. I thought that O license offences were dealt with by the traffic commissioners
A week later I phoned boss man he claims to have paid and has receipt but I can’t get or see it. I have phoned the central ticket office several times since then, and of course it is still not paid!
Time is running out …do I
a) Pay up, look happy and put it down to experience?
b)Take it to court and then have to pay up and look happy?
c) Pay up and sue him for the money? (can you sue for a fine?)
Technically it is the operator who should be fined not the driver as there is no way to check and it is the operators responsibility to have an operators licence or he shouldn’t be using the vehicle for business purposes.
Still not been paid for the work either! Another profitable month. HA HA!!!
Any ideas of what to do next gratefully received.
did you check on vosa website see if he had o/licence otherwise i would not touch them with a barge pole only takes 10 mins
well rob k if could of rang or check website at home if he got a call the day before common sense rk or what
And how are you meant to do that when he’s stood there with the keys in his hand and ready to wave you off? What, just say to them “excuse me a moment, do you have a computer I can use to check that you’re not lying?”. Some really dim people on this site…
white van:
well rob k if could of rang or check website at home if he got a call the day before common sense rk or what
So you phone VOSA or check the O-licence status of every company you’re going to drive for on the off-chance that they might not have one? Are you for real? Come on man, be realistic here please.
The guy had to make a decision based on his gut feeling whether the owner was lying or not. He made that decision and it turned out to be a wrong one but faced with the same situation yourself I reckon you’d have done the same. As the guy said, the story that the owner gave was plausible.
I would seek a free consultation from a solicitor experienced in these matters and then go from there, but realistically I would fight this in court if writing to the cops/VOSA didn’t result in a satisfactory response.
To the other guy, what was the offence on the police FPN? It’s not something I’ve had experience with but I wouldn’t have thought ‘no operator licence’ was an offence that the police would deal with.
The driver should not receive an FPN at all, it is the operators responsibility.
The three sanctions listed are as follows:
P Prosecution. A court deposit should be taken only if the offender has no verifiable UK address.
FUE Follow Up Enquiry
AL Advisory Letter
I had this many years ago and went to court and made the prosecution look quite foolish, as my boss at the time got off with it too because the court paperwork was wrong.
Anyone who suggests ringing VOSA has obviously never tried to ring them
White van,have you tried looking for an operator on the vosa site?(good luck!) tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonym … ts_new.asp .
Operators licence can be in the name of a limited company or a director or anyone! unless you have a number to trace the O licence you stand no chance.
Section 2(5) of Goods Vehicle(Licensing of Operators) Act 1995 says-
2(5)A person who uses a vehicle in contravention of this section is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [F1level 5]on the standard scale.
And using a vehicle is defined as this in the same act
For the purposes of this Act, the driver of a vehicle, if it belongs to him or is in his possession under an agreement for hire, hire-purchase or loan, and in any other case the person whose servant or agent the driver is, shall be deemed to be the person using the vehicle; and references to using a vehicle shall be construed accordingly.
As the vehicle doesn’t belong, or is hired, to the OP that would make him the servant or agent of another person and it is therefore that person who is using the vehicle according to this act.
Rob K:
@ Neil, so if you were in the OPs situation - and having read the above - how would you proceed?
I wouldn’t be accepting the FPN and if I turned up somewhere to drive a vehicle that wasn’t displaying an O Licence I would note it on the check sheet then get on with the job as the way I read that, and have always understood it, I am not the user of the vehicle as defined by that act and it is the user who faces sanctions.
with very good knowledge on this will be along later today 
