Carryfast:
muckles:
And of course all those in the Out campaign will be totally honest, won’t have hidden agendas, will not exaggerate the benefits of leaving or the pitfalls of not voting Out?The out campaign doesn’t need to lie because it is based on facts.
Of course it is. 
boredwivdrivin:
OUT can go either way , and i personally think its about time they started selling a positive message for our future , because the little i have heard from them so far has been negative
How much clearer,does the ‘positive’ message,of let’s keep our massive net payments to the EU and spend them at home and stop the idea of our government being hijacked by EU Federalism,and giving British jobs and/or benefit payments and social services to foreign workers,thereby providing more for our own,does it need to get.
muckles:
Carryfast:
The out campaign doesn’t need to lie because it is based on facts.Of course it is.
Unfortunately for the in campaign in regards to our net contributions,trade deficit figures,and the conditions contained in the treaties of Rome,Maastricht and Lisbon absolutely it is.Other than those issues what other possible ‘agenda’ does the out campaign need to be involved in.
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
The out campaign doesn’t need to lie because it is based on facts.Of course it is.
Unfortunately for the in campaign in regards to our net contributions,trade deficit figures,and the conditions contained in the treaties of Rome,Maastricht and Lisbon absolutely it is.Other than those issues what other possible ‘agenda’ does the out campaign need to be involved in.
Who knows what devious deals have been done behind closed doors, but in the same way as I wonder whats in it for those politicians on the In Campaign, I have to wonder what’s in it for those in the other side?
What people forget is …even IF we vote out the EU is not going to let us leave …
Can’t see Germans Italians French etc all of a sudden being unable to sell us among other things cars planes trains etc…they would lose the biggest and most stable market for trade
The Irish are already doing backroom deals to ensure that Irish citizens are exempt from benefit caps work restrictions etc …no doubt the Germans Swedes Dane’s etc are doing exactly the same !
Can see this going in our favour and I’m sure it will change the Eu for good .
Amazes me how folks seem to have the idea that theres even the remote possibility of getting out of the EU,if a weapons grade moron like George w bush can win the presidency of the USA by basically manipulating the voting mechanisms,as he he surely did,then why expect any different outcome in Euroland?
Never was there a more apposite quotation than that of ■■■■■■-butcher, Stalin-“it’s not the votes that count, but who counts the votes”
In this case its the UK counting the votes . nothing to do with EU or Stalin .
And outside of India its probably the best system going .
manalishi:
Amazes me how folks seem to have the idea that theres even the remote possibility of getting out of the EU,if a weapons grade moron like George w bush can win the presidency of the USA by basically manipulating the voting mechanisms,as he he surely did,then why expect any different outcome in Euroland
To be fair Obama makes Bush look as good as Eisenhower or Kennedy. 
Although it’s ironic that a governor of an ongoing secessionist tendency state like Texas would have wanted to be president of the US Federation rather than secede from it. 
Although having said that I’d agree can we trust an in vote bearing in mind all the pressures from big players like the CBI etc that are on the in campaign side.Let alone previous experience in which all the EU treaties which we’ve signed up to are illegal under the Nation’s constitution regards compromising sovereignty and therefore were/are not a matter for choice or vote anyway.
Funny thing .
Obama is exactly the dude the OUT campaign should be studying .
Relentlessly positive , appealing to yoof and women , snappy 'yes we can ’ slogans , intelligent and thoughtful , approachable and humanlike , mastery of media , likeable and listening …
He is just the type of dude OUT needs to lead , if we are to win this
boredwivdrivin:
In this case its the UK counting the votes . nothing to do with EU or Stalin .And outside of India its probably the best system going .
It’s NOT the UK counting the votes though. As the Stalin version went “Who counts the votes” means EVERYTHING here.
If the result is 51% in favour of staying “in” - then it will COUNT that it’s 51% of a lousy low turnover of say, 43% who voted. Eg. around one person in five voted to “stay in” - so “that” is the final result - and considered democratic - because that’s what the powers have chosen to call it. If the result was the other way though - the EU would quickly point out that as "only one in five voted to leave the EU - we are going to democratically recognize the 80% who DIDN’T vote to leave - thus getting the result they want by changing the way the votes count each time…
To really change governments who have no interest in carrying out the will of the majority - we need a revolution to put in place a government that enforces harsh majority will (a democratic dictatorship?) and overthrow our current “democracy” system that just sexes up the results all the time until black is proven to be white. 
boredwivdrivin:
Funny thing .Obama is exactly the dude the OUT campaign should be studying .
Relentlessly positive , appealing to yoof and women , snappy 'yes we can ’ slogans , intelligent and thoughtful , approachable and humanlike , mastery of media , likeable and listening …
He is just the type of dude OUT needs to lead , if we are to win this
Ironically Obama actually stands for and appeals to exactly the type of Federalist Socialist vote that the out campaign has to defeat.Realistically if the young generation,like everyone else,can’t understand what those like David Davis,Kate Hoey and John Boyd stand for and are saying then the country deserves its inevitable fate of effective foreign take over. 
Winseer:
It’s NOT the UK counting the votes though. As the Stalin version went “Who counts the votes” means EVERYTHING here.If the result is 51% in favour of staying “in” - then it will COUNT that it’s 51% of a lousy low turnover of say, 43% who voted. Eg. around one person in five voted to “stay in” - so “that” is the final result - and considered democratic - because that’s what the powers have chosen to call it. If the result was the other way though - the EU would quickly point out that as "only one in five voted to leave the EU - we are going to democratically recognize the 80% who DIDN’T vote to leave - thus getting the result they want by changing the way the votes count each time…
To really change governments who have no interest in carrying out the will of the majority - we need a revolution to put in place a government that enforces harsh majority will (a democratic dictatorship?) and overthrow our current “democracy” system that just sexes up the results all the time until black is proven to be white.
If we’re in the realms of bias,to the point where a minority vote for in would be recognised but not for out.Or where there clearly does seem to be no objections from the media or in campaign,to the situation of the SNP’s obvious suggestion,that it won’t recognise an English out vote v a Scottish in vote leading to a call for independence.While England has to recognise a Scottish in vote against an English out vote with no chance for the English to call for the same split.
The out campaign really needs to withdraw all co operation from and recognition of the referendum until at least those issues are sorted.That’s in addition to the questionable misrepresentation of a so called ‘deal’ regards ‘return’ of sovereignty which the in campaign is relying on.When it is clearly nothing even close.In which case this has all the signs of a rigged stitch up which is just a scam to actually fix our membership of the Federalist scam to the point of no return.
This should really be either a compulsory vote OR the public should be told the truth that “every person that does not vote - is effectively voting for the status quo”. This latter point might encourage “sleeping voters” to awaken and “put a stop to the stitch-up expected” here, as was done to motivate the blue rinse brigade with the bull that “Milliband and Cameron are neck and neck” days before the election last year…
The Scots need to realize that voting “IN” just to spite Westminster - will leave them with ever decreasing throw-overs of cash up to Holyrood. They are supposed to be backing the SNP on a “anti austerity” ticket.
The biggest PLUS for the OUT campaign is that “Austerity ends the moment we leave the EU, and we, the UK as a whole - stop wasting all that money there”.
Now for the Scots, and other working class “unsure voters” - it’s just a question of realizing these simple facts…
The only people justified in stubbornly supporting the “staying in the EU” camp then then - will be those who have profited handsomely over the last decade in particular.
I ask this of everyone…
Well? - DID you?
If Cleggy was telling the truth about those “millions of British citizens who’s livelihood depends directly upon us being in the EU” - then they might want to stand up and be counted now… 
I suspect it’s only the employer and chattering classes with any interest… 
Winseer:
This should really be either a compulsory vote OR the public should be told the truth that “every person that does not vote - is effectively voting for the status quo”.
Exactly where is the evidence of the double standard of a minority vote for in being recognised but not in the case of out. 
If that’s really the case it would be better for the out side to boycott the vote on grounds of it being rigged and then call for what’s needed in the form of a Nationalist government that stands on a ticket of taking us out without a referendum on the grounds that the treaties of Rome,Maastricht and Lisbon are against the national constitution.Let alone all the other economic issues.On that note if Davis,Fox and Howie among others like John Boyd are as principled regards country not Party as they say we’ve already got the core of the start of that new Party already there.
OUT.
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Out
In
Probably spot on percentage wise with the public ,Especially after all the Lies etc … Out please .
Out. (Because I’m not terrified of losing a couple of quid ffs )
Out on the 29th still with any luck.
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