As its being debated tonight …
We should never have joined it in the first place.Let alone stay in what is a federalist organisation,that’s making us pay for an American ‘defence’ agenda that’s all about pushing NATO eastwards into Russian areas of influence,by bribing eastern Europe to join in the scam.Thereby making the northern hemisphere a more dangerous place.With the kickback of cheap labour for west European employers.IE out of the EU ‘and’ NATO.
Like many political ideals/visions. Good in theory but inevitably hijacked, corrupted and woefully mis-managed. OUT.
Watching the debate on sky news right now.
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Like many political ideals/visions. Good in theory but inevitably hijacked, corrupted and woefully mis-managed. OUT.Watching the debate on sky news right now.
It’s impossible to have an intelligent debate with a ■■■■■■ like Clegg.IE the ■■■■■■ can’t even understand that we’d actually gain jobs by leaving a scam where we pay for the privilege of being in a trade deficit by being blackmailed that if we leave the EU they supposedly won’t allow us to export to them.Great a trade war between us and the EU where our workers pick up all the work that the EU lose in manufacturing imports to us and ours lose currently what’s being exported from us to them.Although it’s no surprise that basic maths isn’t one of Clegg’s strong points.
Spot on, mate. In my view, Farage comprehensively squashed Clegg tonight. Made him look every inch the buffoon and political puppet that he is. I genuinely believe that we should get out, and that is where my cross would go, were i given a vote.
Farage is an idiot, a gob on a stick with an ego attached. I don’t know whether or not Clegg is much better, but having heard Farage sounding off about things he clearly doesn’t know the first thing about in the past, with all the smug self assurance a certain type of British male adopts when he hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s talking about, I’m disinclined to take his word for the weather. The man’s an arse and his party is nothing more than BNP Lite. I have no strong opinion either way on whether we should be in or out of the EU, by the way, but I do know that there’s a lot more to the decision than Farage would have us believe.
I will vote for the gob on a stick, OUT.
YouGov poll put Farage at 57% & Clegg at 36%. Clegg was on the ropes and resorted to good old-fashioned interruption, and talking over his opponent. Ignorant pillock.
I just don`t get the mindset of people who think that we would instantly become pariahs, outcast and unable to exchange goods and services with the “outside world”. Load of ■■■■■■■■.
Rhythm Thief:
Farage is an idiot, a gob on a stick with an ego attached. I don’t know whether or not Clegg is much better, but having heard Farage sounding off about things he clearly doesn’t know the first thing about in the past, with all the smug self assurance a certain type of British male adopts when he hasn’t the faintest idea what he’s talking about, I’m disinclined to take his word for the weather. The man’s an arse and his party is nothing more than BNP Lite. I have no strong opinion either way on whether we should be in or out of the EU, by the way, but I do know that there’s a lot more to the decision than Farage would have us believe.
I’m surprised at you. I thought you would have concentrated on the policies rather than the personalities. They’re ALL arses! Must do better! 
If you concentrate on UKIP’s policies, they look even less savoury. I’m undecided as to whether it’s a good thing that we’re members of the EU or not - I frankly don’t know enough about it to make an informed choice one way or another - but the first thing that springs to mind when looking through the rest of UKIP’s is that they’re able to promise the earth because they know they’ll never have to deliver any of it. The second thing is just how offensive many of their policies are if you look just under the surface.
Without Farage - who may be an offensive arse but is not actually stupid, despite my comments earlier - they wouldn’t have got anywhere near as far as they have and would be dismissed as another minority group of raving right wing loonies. Just as Nick Griffin transformed the National Front from a group of thugs into the superficially respectable political “force” that the BNP became, by knowing how to get the mainstream on his side and being a persuasive orator but most of all by riding the wave of public dissatisfaction with mainstream politics, so Nigel Farage has done exactly the same thing, for exactly the same reasons. Yes, we should be concentrating on the policies rather than the personalities, but the thing is that UKIP is all personality and no policies … there is literally nothing else about them beyond Farage’s charisma.
It’s no surprise that anyone who even suggests that this country is being ruined by pro immigration and pro EU PC leftists would be branded as raving facists by those who support that loony left agenda.The fact is Farage and UKIP make a lot more sense than the same old Cam and Clegg alliance,that’s based on taking advantage of the deluded,naive,idealistic loony leftist tendency to keep the cheap East European labour scam going and the expansion of a federal EU eastwards,to suit the US ‘defence’ agenda of pushing NATO into Russia’s buffers with potentially catastrophic results.
Oh good, Carryfast’s here, arguing against things I haven’t said and viewpoints I don’t hold. Great news.
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YouGov poll put Farage at 57% & Clegg at 36%. Clegg was on the ropes and resorted to good old-fashioned interruption, and talking over his opponent. Ignorant pillock.I just don`t get the mindset of people who think that we would instantly become pariahs, outcast and unable to exchange goods and services with the “outside world”. Load of ■■■■■■■■.
You would get their mindset ‘if’ you’ve spent any time amongst the loony left agenda and ditched it having realised what a stupid,dangerous,deluded ideology it really is.Ironically in this case they’re stupid enough to support a fascist led coup in Ukraine because the EU and their hero Obama tells them to.
Rhythm Thief:
Oh good, Carryfast’s here, arguing against things I haven’t said and viewpoints I don’t hold. Great news.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I read it that you were making a false connection between the BNP’s ideas and UKIP’s.
Partly. I do believe that what passes for UKIP’s ideology is not that far removed from that of the BNP, or at least that with a few years in government (which isn’t going to happen), UKIP will fairly easily become virtually indistinguishable from what the BNP is at the moment. I may be wrong about this, however, and it’s not the main point I was making, which is that I find it ironic that those who support UKIP generally do so because they profess disdain for personality politics. UKIP is nothing but a personality: without Farage’s charisma, it’s nothing. What passes for their policies are - rather like those of the Lib Dems a few years ago - no more than a load of unrealistic promises which they know they can afford to make because there’s virtually no chance they’ll ever have to deliver on any of them. You watch: when their supporters become disillusioned with not winning anything other than by elections and the odd seat here or there in a few years, they’ll ditch Farage, and UKIP will sink without trace unless they can find someone who is equally charismatic.
To be honest, I haven’t got a clue whether we would be better off in or out & I suspect there are several million others in the same position.
From what I’ve seen, heard & read none of the “experts” can agree or seem to know either.
Rhythm Thief:
Partly. I do believe that what passes for UKIP’s ideology is not that far removed from that of the BNP, or at least that with a few years in government (which isn’t going to happen), UKIP will fairly easily become virtually indistinguishable from what the BNP is at the moment. I may be wrong about this, however, and it’s not the main point I was making, which is that I find it ironic that those who support UKIP generally do so because they profess disdain for personality politics. UKIP is nothing but a personality: without Farage’s charisma, it’s nothing. What passes for their policies are - rather like those of the Lib Dems a few years ago - no more than a load of unrealistic promises which they know they can afford to make because there’s virtually no chance they’ll ever have to deliver on any of them. You watch: when their supporters become disillusioned with not winning anything other than by elections and the odd seat here or there in a few years, they’ll ditch Farage, and UKIP will sink without trace unless they can find someone who is equally charismatic.
The dangers of what the EU is turning into in the form of a federation made up largely of east european states all in it for what they can get and the cheap labour angle from the west european employers’ point of view,are far greater than any questions concerning UKIP’s agenda which seems to be all about what it says on the tin.IE getting out of the EU and putting us back into the same position government wise and trade wise as we were in 1972.Which trust me was a good place to be.As for the immigration issue the fact is supporting the idea of the different ethnic groups living in their own place isn’t the same thing as Hitler’s ideas at all and in that Farage is no wehere near as radical as he should be.If that means inevitably being branded as racist by the leftists like Clegg and immigrant groups who want the gravy train of our open door immigration policy to continue then who cares.When the fact is the idea of running Britain in the interests of indigenous British workers not European ones or immigrant ones is more like the real Labour policies that Powell ( rightly ) told his Tory supporters to vote for.IE out of the EU and put a stop to the cheap labour scam that was and still is the UK immigration policy.
It may have been a good place to be in 1972, but that was a long time ago now and the world’s moved on a bit since then. That’s the main problem with UKIP and their ilk (and at least one of the mainstream parties, to be fair): they seem to me to be living in the past, in an age where Britain was top dog and controlled half the world. It’s just not like that any more. How could we survive on our own in 2014? There’s no point denying that we rely on cheap immigrant labour to do the jobs that many people in this country consider beneath them. Blame that on whoever you like: personally, I don’t think Blair and his government helped the situation by pushing for half the nation’s youth to go to university, to the detriment of manual trades such as plumbing and building (and indeed, to the ultimate detriment of our higher education system: how was pushing for more people to go to university ever going to do anything other than drive down standards? However, I digress … ), but it isn’t going to be fixed by Farage pursuing an isolationist policy and declaring that it’s 1972 all over again.
Rhythm Thief:
It may have been a good place to be in 1972, but that was a long time ago now and the world’s moved on a bit since then. That’s the main problem with UKIP and their ilk (and at least one of the mainstream parties, to be fair): they seem to me to be living in the past, in an age where Britain was top dog and controlled half the world. It’s just not like that any more. How could we survive on our own in 2014? There’s no point denying that we rely on cheap immigrant labour to do the jobs that many people in this country consider beneath them. Blame that on whoever you like: personally, I don’t think Blair and his government helped the situation by pushing for half the nation’s youth to go to university, to the detriment of manual trades such as plumbing and building (and indeed, to the ultimate detriment of our higher education system: how was pushing for more people to go to university ever going to do anything other than drive down standards? However, I digress … ), but it isn’t going to be fixed by Farage pursuing an isolationist policy and declaring that it’s 1972 all over again.
It’s basically a choice between get back to where we were in 1972 and then follow the Powell/Shore line that should have been followed at the time instead of the Heath one.Or the country sinks under a mountain of debt caused by the payments we are making to the EU to subsidise everyone else and massive population made up of too many immigrants that has to be supported all from the money we are no longer earning.In addition to us becoming locked into a federalist zb up that future generations won’t be able to get out of without being subjected to force and/or with aggressive intentions to Russia.
All because the loony left like Clegg can’t get their heads around the meaning and effects of the words trade deficit and who think that the idea of closing the doors to immigration and repatriating those we’ve got,and/or who don’t agree with the Euro federalist project,is all the same thing that Hitler did at Auschwitz.IE anyone who doesn’t agree with the socialist ■■■■■■ Clegg is a racist. 