Another vote to get out of the EU here.
My preference would be to turn the EU back to what the common market was when we joined, but that’s not going to happen so …
I could imagine a scenario in which the withdrawal of one significant member country from the union could quite possibly kickstart a sequence of further withdrawals.
There is enough anti-EU unrest on record to suggest that people of many member nations are disenchanted with the blatant cronyism and aloofness being demonstrated from the corridors of Brussels. On face value, it is difficult (for me at least) to view the whole mess subsequently created as little more than a large-scale, cynical manipulation which has only served to make fat cats even fatter.
Don`t hold your breath for a referendum on these matters though - that would be tantamount to democracy!
Round 2. Wednesday 2nd at 7pm on beeb 2. Ding! Ding!
I remember when Ted Heath spoke about his vision, and it was nothing like what we have today. It was supposed to be a trading club where we would benefit, where our exports could be better employed, it was not meant to be turned into a Euro Superstate where only 2 countries benefit ( Germany+ France ) and each member of the club would be governed by unelected beaurocrats. The Human rights act is one that very urgently needs change, Immigration and its benefits need to change, for the first time in its history, the accounts in Brussells need to be signed off, something that hasnt yet happened. To be honest, i dont really care what will happen to this country if we pull out, i do believe that we will survive, i believe we can trade around the world, and we can take back control from Brussels, and also control our borders a lot better than whats happening now.
And i will be voting for UKIP and i will vote to leave the Union that used to be called the Common Market.
I remember when Ted Heath spoke about his vision, and it was nothing like what we have today. It was supposed to be a trading club where we would benefit, where our exports could be better employed, it was not meant to be turned into a Euro Superstate where only 2 countries benefit ( Germany+ France ) and each member of the club would be governed by unelected beaurocrats. The Human rights act is one that very urgently needs change, Immigration and its benefits need to change, for the first time in its history, the accounts in Brussells need to be signed off, something that hasnt yet happened. To be honest, i dont really care what will happen to this country if we pull out, i do believe that we will survive, i believe we can trade around the world, and we can take back control from Brussels, and also control our borders a lot better than whats happening now.
And i will be voting for UKIP and i will vote to leave the Union that used to be called the Common Market.
Im with truckyboy on this although before my time the eu we have now isnt what people voted to stay in back in the 70s.
I think i will vote ukip as a protest as none of the mainstream partys offer me anything although farage comes across well im not to keen on the rest of them.
Been reading a book called seasons in the sun by domonic seabrook which is a history of britain between 1974 and 79. Very impartial and intresting i think carryfast would enjoy it
kr79:
Im with truckyboy on this although before my time the eu we have now isnt what people voted to stay in back in the 70s.
I think i will vote ukip as a protest as none of the mainstream partys offer me anything although farage comes across well im not to keen on the rest of them.
Been reading a book called seasons in the sun by domonic seabrook which is a history of britain between 1974 and 79. Very impartial and intresting i think carryfast would enjoy it
There were basically two different factions made up of the pro Europe lot led by Heath who history shows was all about keeping the Germans happy because he was zb scared of another war in Europe involving them.
There were anti Europe lot led by Shore and Powell who knew exactly what we were getting into and what the treaty of Rome and UK accession were about.
The pro Europe lot amongst the public let themselves be fooled by all the pro Europe propaganda put up by Heath’s lot.
While the antis amongst the public didn’t believe all the propaganda and like Shore and Powell knew exactly what those EEC/EU treaties meant.
The idea that the thing turned into something different was really just an excuse put up by the pro Europe supporters who changed their minds with hindsight.
As for me I was always a Shore and Powell supporter. 
Tomorrow (mon) Channel 4 at 7.30pm. Nigel Farage : Who Are You? Filmed over a six month period. Could be interesting!
Carryfast:
The idea that the thing turned into something different was really just an excuse put up by the pro Europe supporters who changed their minds with hindsight.
I’m sorry but that’s complete nonsense, the fact is that either the politicians lied to us or they themselves were not aware of how the Common Market would evolve into the monstrosity we now know as the EU, I suspect for many politicians it was probably the latter.
In theory it was not possible for the Common Market to become what it now is, unfortunately theory did not take into account the fact that no UK politician would stand up for UK interests, or that for over thirty years no UK prime minister would have the balls to use the veto that was supposed to be there to protect our interests.
tachograph:
Carryfast:
The idea that the thing turned into something different was really just an excuse put up by the pro Europe supporters who changed their minds with hindsight.I’m sorry but that’s complete nonsense, the fact is that either the politicians lied to us or they themselves were not aware of how the Common Market would evolve into the monstrosity we now know as the EU, I suspect for many politicians it was probably the latter.
In theory it was not possible for the Common Market to become what it now is, unfortunately theory did not take into account the fact that no UK politician would stand up for UK interests, or that for over thirty years no UK prime minister would have the balls to use the veto that was supposed to be there to protect our interests.
The links which I’ve posted there relate to the information which was available at the time to the politicians.The anti EU politicians like Powell,Shore and Benn amongst others were well aware of all the implications of joining and made that information,concerning the Euro agenda and project,clear to everyone who was prepared to listen to them.Me being one of them.
As for just the trade angle it didn’t take a genius to realise that the Germans etc weren’t in it for our interests which is why a trade surplus turned into a deficit from the time we joined to date.
theguardian.com/commentisfre … ur-prophet
I think prople where more trusting of polititions back then so tended to go what the leaders advised powell had been marginalised by the torys by then although to be fair he was still popular with the public. You couldnt trust benns judgement to run a school tuck shop let alone a government. I dont know a lot about shore or how prominent he was in the government.
kr79:
I think prople where more trusting of polititions back then so tended to go what the leaders advised powell had been marginalised by the torys by then although to be fair he was still popular with the public. You couldnt trust benns judgement to run a school tuck shop let alone a government. I dont know a lot about shore or how prominent he was in the government.
The common link concerning all the really committed antis at the time was that they and their ( correct ) arguments were all marginalised by the pro factions in both the Labour and Conservative Parties.Which is how Callaghan and Thatcher ended up running the place into the ground,with a bit of help from the idiots like Roy Jenkins etc.So it’s no surprise that the situation carries on today by Farage being subjected to whatever other negative points that the LabLibDemCons choose to throw at him using their controlled media to do it.In just the same way as the pro campaigners did during the 1970’s.
As for Benn yes he was over rated while ironically Shore was ( way ) under rated.But the important issue is that all the anti campaigners were allied in putting the interests of the country first above their own political ideas.Which is why Powell ironically advised his own Conservative electorate to vote Labour on the ironic basis that there were more,at the time,in the Labour Party,who followed that idea,than there were in the Conservative Party.The rest is history in that the pro EEC alliance of Heath,Thatcher,Wilson,Callaghan and Jenkins etc rail roaded the country into a bad deal with Europe,on the basis of massive but dodgy propaganda,which too many people were prepared to listen to.No real change there then or now.
Right then…Nick Clegg was back to his trademark stumbling, stymied self again in tonights second "debate". Nigel Farage was clearly much more at ease, much more eloquent and much better prepared and informed. I found it intensely irritating how quickly Clegg resorted to the tired, unimaginative old-school response of lamely attempting to twist the interpretation of Farages statements, and it did him no favours at all. Oh, and trying to hijack all the airtime, for which he was remonstrated by dear old David Dimbleby. The old guard have had their self-serving, conceited ways totally exposed, but they will deny us the opportunity of a referendum at any cost, as they continue greedily feathering their own nests to the huge detriment of our country. I fervently hope that UKIP`s profile continues to grow, and that their political stature rises to the point where we can re-gain control of our own future.
■■■■■■■:
Right then…Nick Clegg was back to his trademark stumbling, stymied self again in tonights second "debate". Nigel Farage was clearly much more at ease, much more eloquent and much better prepared and informed. I found it intensely irritating how quickly Clegg resorted to the tired, unimaginative old-school response of lamely attempting to twist the interpretation of Farages statements, and it did him no favours at all. Oh, and trying to hijack all the airtime, for which he was remonstrated by dear old David Dimbleby. The old guard have had their self-serving, conceited ways totally exposed, but they will deny us the opportunity of a referendum at any cost, as they continue greedily feathering their own nests to the huge detriment of our country. I fervently hope that UKIP`s profile continues to grow, and that their political stature rises to the point where we can re-gain control of our own future.
Very well put and I agree wholeheartedly.
Re - weback.
Spot on.
I’m undecided whether I want to stay or leave - there are good and bad points on both sides. I think the only true solution is a in/out referendum, with the proviso that if the vote is for ‘in’, that we go all the way in, and stop ■■■■■■■ about on the sidelines.
Any party which has already committed itself to either in or out is sticking two fingers up at the electorate.
RT - Love the gentle satire of the mash site. I am becoming a frequent visitor. Cheers !!
scaniason:
I think the only true solution is a in/out referendum, with the proviso that if the vote is for ‘in’, that we go all the way in, and stop ■■■■■■■ about on the sidelines.
That’s the only way the European Union can work fully. One parliament in charge of the workings of one currency, one main bank, one set of laws, etc etc with all countries fully in, no opt-outs, and all treated equally with no veto. The powers that be, in the UK, know that if this were to be offered the result of any referendum would be a landslide against.
I feel the EU argument has moved on from being in or out and is now more to do with a battle against the establishment and all it stands for. Clegg, in my opinion, epitomises the establishment. His whole demeanour is to defend and promote the status quo, that he and his like know best. The salvation is that the more he defends the establishment, and therefore the EU, the more questions are raised about its very existence.
Give Farage a year in power, tops, and he too will epitomise the establishment. He campaigns on an anti establishment platform ,but he’s just itching to be a part of it all.