In or out of EU ? Poll

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
781

If the vote is over 50% in favour of a Brexit - but less than 50% of the overall electorate (due to poor turnout - easily possible!) then the EU will argue correctly that “such a huge decision cannot be allowed to be implemented on the back of a minority vote”. 35% of the entire poll - but scoring 55% of those that vote (similar to the Scottish result) will just have them asking Cameron to put his case harder, and a second referendum will be called - as was the case in Ireland.

For the good of the country, the result needs to really be a clear 75%+ one way or the other.

If we’re daft enough to vote to stay in 75% - then we deserve all we get, and the 25% that voted “out” are outnumbered by enough idiots that nothing bad will happen disorder-wise at least.
If the “OUT” result is over 75% - then the EU are silenced from asking for a second ballot. This helps bring stability to the Pound, now that we’ve effectively locked it in place for all eternity.

This meaningless drivel about “Special Needs Britain” has had me choking up my tea though. :angry: :imp:

It alarms me that so many Brits are expected to have low enough IQ’s to fall for THAT old ■■■■■■■■!

A MEANINGFUL deal would involve something - ANYTHING - done right away, and fully implemented before the referendum takes place - so the British public can see what has already been done to rescue them from their own doubts before voting…

Any promises involving doing nothing until after the referendum are easy to break otherwise - once we’ve signed this daft Faustian deal.

782

yup winseer , the OUT campaign has got to pull their knickers up .

if i was undecided then the IN scare campaign and trumpeting of camerons great negotiating achievement (sic) would maybe persuade me .

but has OUT come up with anything that would persuade me to vote for them ■■ um no .

somebody somewhere needs to get a grip of the situation and decide on a strategy , and unite behind it .

783

Winseer:
If the vote is over 50% in favour of a Brexit - but less than 50% of the overall electorate (due to poor turnout - easily possible!) then the EU will argue correctly that “such a huge decision cannot be allowed to be implemented on the back of a minority vote”. 35% of the entire poll - but scoring 55% of those that vote (similar to the Scottish result) will just have them asking Cameron to put his case harder, and a second referendum will be called - as was the case in Ireland.

In which case are we saying that a vote for ‘in’ based on a similar minority vote gives the out campaign grounds for calling that result void ?.Bearing in mind that there’s no reason to think that the turnout would be any less this time than it was in 1975 anyway.

Having said that all of the above just confirms that the issue of EU membership isn’t a matter for referendum.It’s one of national government sovereignty v federalism which hands sovereignty to a foreign power which is illegal under the Constitution.On that note assuming that the out campaign really wants to dig its heels in then that’s a far better position for it to take.Than go along with Cameron’s bs stitch up which doesn’t even do anything to ‘return’ any powers by at least withdrawing from the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties.Let alone going along with any national referendum which gives the EU any rights whatsoever over its conduct and count.Bearing in mind the way in which we elect our government on the same minority vote basis.

784

What I’ve done to help in my own decision is “remove the immigration argument” from the equation.

Even if we voted 100% OUT - it would take a long time to roll back those already on their way here, revoke the benefits of all those already in work - effectively deporting them (cheapest way to do it, mind!) and replacing missing staff with enough workers so that the job still gets done…

This last bit is a sticking point. There’s no way that firms en-masse will just pop up and say “All our immigrants have left, so we’re doubling hourly rates - can you start next monday?”

Pigs might fly… Into Cameron’s mouth more likely than through the air.

Firms would advertise at the old hourly rates, no takers, firm starts to lose money due to reduced capacity - a new recession commences… The downside of the “OUT” campaign that is spoken little of by anyone with any economics know-how.

For stability’s sake then - current immigrants need some kind of amnesty. Benefit cuts will not be retrospective, but any newcomers as of say, 1st April 2016 would NOT get any benefits under any circumstances… Hey presto, the immigrant of the future is someone who’s coming over here to BUY, then FIT OUT, then STAFF UP, and finally RUN a factory, perhaps one that’s been mothballed for a while…
Now that is GOOD for the economy - no one can deny it.

Thus, that issue dealt with - let’s move onto the actual nuts and bolts of leaving the EU…

The EU is NOT going to put actual trade sanctions upon us. This would be an act of war, and would never be countenanced. They MIGHT impose tariffs upon us, but that would hurt them more than us all the time the Euro continues to be artificially propped-up whilst the Pound gets sold off at the slightest new bit of perceived “bad news”… So we sell to the rest of the world instead (to avoid EU tariffs) and BUY stuff from the rest of the world - seeing as EU stuff now has surcharges upon it. The EU lose, and Lose. We get ? and ? - It can’t very well limbo below Lose/Lose though - can it?

Trade routes with countries further afield have a history of being rather more lucretive than doorstep trade in any case.

The “three million jobs that get lost if we leave” is a total lie. SOME people might have SOME business with the EU as part of their many other duties. The number of UK workers that are entirely employed by the EU in a position that will no longer exist post-Brexit - is what? - 4 figures? Maybe the low five-figure range. Officials.
Then there’s EU drivers not being able to drive on our roads any more without paying hefty entrance charges like we already have to pay as tolls everywhere out there.
Erm… That’s a whole lot more jobs for Drivers based in the UK!
Then there’s Tourism… The Euro is overpriced compared to the pound at present. This makes “coming to Britain as a tourist from the EU” look quite cheap. If the pound slumps after Brexit - it will be cheaper still.
Tourism GAINS.
Our own citizens, finding the EU rather expensive to visit now that the Euro is high and Sterling low - decide to take more “Staycations” which helps our balance of trade deficit. Foreigners spending money here in the UK helps too of course!

Would “leaving the EU weaken our position in NATO”?
Personally, if it did - I would not give a hoot. I’m one of those who thinks that reducing relations with NATO, the US, and even Israel - isn’t a “downside” at all… That in mind, do we give a hoot what THEY think of US?
Not if the worst that can happen is how frosty things have got between Britain and Russia right now… :bulb:

Most people don’t care about Socialism/Federalism, or even Capitalism. They just want more of the things they like in life, less of the things they dont like - and everything kept in order by decent strong laws strongly enforced in the public’s favour. Something else that could improve if we had the money to spend on home infrastructure, home jobs like policing, and using fine revenues to pay for even more traffic enforcement officials in particular. The public on the road take the ■■■■ enough as it is. :imp:

785

boredwivdrivin:
yup winseer , the OUT campaign has got to pull their knickers up .

if i was undecided then the IN scare campaign and trumpeting of camerons great negotiating achievement (sic) would maybe persuade me .

but has OUT come up with anything that would persuade me to vote for them ■■ um no .

somebody somewhere needs to get a grip of the situation and decide on a strategy , and unite behind it .

What ‘strategy’ is there other than to put forward the unarguable net costs of membership,trade deficit with the EU since we joined and the illegal unconstitutional handing over of sovereignty which took place in the signing up to the Treaties of Rome,Maastricht and Lisbon.

786

Winseer:
Most people don’t care about Socialism/Federalism, or even Capitalism.

Which is exactly the logic which Tito went by.What could possibly go wrong. :open_mouth: :unamused: While if you’re right there is already no such country or nation as the UK,let alone England or Scotland anyway,to be voting as part of to leave the EU.

787

Carryfast:
What ‘strategy’ is there other than to put forward the unarguable net costs of membership,trade deficit with the EU since we joined and the illegal unconstitutional handing over of sovereignty which took place in the signing up to the Treaties of Rome,Maastricht and Lisbon.

im not hearing any arguments at all !!

ive had 2 different leaflets delivered by IN that are full of bull , but nothing has come to counter their arguments , so in the simpleminded they will stick .

i hear all the time on radio and TV how cameron is doing a great job ’ working really hard ’ to get ’ best deal possible ’ and hear nothing to point out that he asked for pitifully few concessions and has got even less .

nothing about trade , nothing sensible about immigration , nothing positive about slinging out ex soviets , nothing about agriculture , nothing about opportunity for international trade , nothing about abolishing eu human right nonsense , nothing about reimposing borders , nothing about EU/USA trade deal thing , nothing about taking back control over our economy , nothing about self determination , nothing about making our own laws …

just hearing nothing about anything really .

788

boredwivdrivin:
just hearing nothing about anything really .

livestream.com/accounts/1685 … ts/4841082

789

they’ll b some scare mongering now wiv the in crowd. …me personally. …im out all the way …I love going all over Europe as a driver …but I’m British not foooking European. …Wawaw

790

79% have so far voted out, I’m one of them.

791

OUT!

Get out of the EU, control our borders, run our own country and stop handing 55 million pounds to Brussels EVERY DAY!!!

792

Oooh !

23rd JUNE

Bestest day of my life !!

793

drhs:
they’ll b some scare mongering now wiv the in crowd

Don’t you think they’ll be scare campaigns and exaggerations from both sides?

794

muckles:
Don’t you think they’ll be scare campaigns and exaggerations from both sides?

The net costs of membership are a fact not scare or an exaggeration,as is our EU trade deficit and the EU’s Federalist dictatorial agenda.

The biggest problem for the Out campaign is the contradiction in it being by definition a Nationalist cause with Socialists like Galloway now somehow being involved in it. :open_mouth: IE why would anyone who doesn’t believe in the idea of the nation state want to be involved in a campaign which is mostly/all about defending exactly that principle.In just the same way that the SNP contains the same contradiction but in reverse.

As for GO within that campaign,in the ideas of people like Kate Howey and John Boyd,is contained a new type of Nationalist Labour politics which the country needs just as it was/would have been in the case of Shore.If only they knew it and started up a new Nationalist Labour Party which throws away all the old obsolete Socialist baggage on the basis of the realisation that Nationalist means ‘left’ not ‘right’. :bulb:

795

Carryfast:

muckles:
Don’t you think they’ll be scare campaigns and exaggerations from both sides?

The net costs of membership are a fact not scare or an exaggeration,as is our EU trade deficit and the EU’s Federalist dictatorial agenda.

The biggest problem for the Out campaign is the contradiction in it being by definition a Nationalist cause with Socialists like Galloway now somehow being involved in it. :open_mouth: IE why would anyone who doesn’t believe in the idea of the nation state want to be involved in a campaign which is mostly/all about defending exactly that principle.In just the same way that the SNP contains the same contradiction but in reverse.

As for GO within that campaign,in the ideas of people like Kate Howey and John Boyd,is contained a new type of Nationalist Labour politics which the country needs just as it was/would have been in the case of Shore.If only they knew it and started up a new Nationalist Labour Party which throws away all the old obsolete Socialist baggage on the basis of the realisation that Nationalist means ‘left’ not ‘right’. :bulb:

And your point is? :unamused:

796

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:
Don’t you think they’ll be scare campaigns and exaggerations from both sides?

The net costs of membership are a fact not scare or an exaggeration,as is our EU trade deficit and the EU’s Federalist dictatorial agenda.

The biggest problem for the Out campaign is the contradiction in it being by definition a Nationalist cause with Socialists like Galloway now somehow being involved in it. :open_mouth: IE why would anyone who doesn’t believe in the idea of the nation state want to be involved in a campaign which is mostly/all about defending exactly that principle.In just the same way that the SNP contains the same contradiction but in reverse.

As for GO within that campaign,in the ideas of people like Kate Howey and John Boyd,is contained a new type of Nationalist Labour politics which the country needs just as it was/would have been in the case of Shore.If only they knew it and started up a new Nationalist Labour Party which throws away all the old obsolete Socialist baggage on the basis of the realisation that Nationalist means ‘left’ not ‘right’. :bulb:

And your point is? :unamused:

Let’s just say that the in campaign is based on the same Federalist propaganda lies that it was in 1973 and 1975 and the signing of the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties.All trying to justify keeping us in the same Federalist scam as it did then. :unamused: While there is nothing within the out campaign’s agenda which isn’t based on fact.

797

Carryfast:

muckles:

Carryfast:

muckles:
Don’t you think they’ll be scare campaigns and exaggerations from both sides?

The net costs of membership are a fact not scare or an exaggeration,as is our EU trade deficit and the EU’s Federalist dictatorial agenda.

The biggest problem for the Out campaign is the contradiction in it being by definition a Nationalist cause with Socialists like Galloway now somehow being involved in it. :open_mouth: IE why would anyone who doesn’t believe in the idea of the nation state want to be involved in a campaign which is mostly/all about defending exactly that principle.In just the same way that the SNP contains the same contradiction but in reverse.

As for GO within that campaign,in the ideas of people like Kate Howey and John Boyd,is contained a new type of Nationalist Labour politics which the country needs just as it was/would have been in the case of Shore.If only they knew it and started up a new Nationalist Labour Party which throws away all the old obsolete Socialist baggage on the basis of the realisation that Nationalist means ‘left’ not ‘right’. :bulb:

And your point is? :unamused:

Let’s just say that the in campaign is based on the same Federalist propaganda lies that it was in 1973 and 1975 and the signing of the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties.All trying to justify keeping us in the same Federalist scam as it did then. :unamused: While there is nothing within the out campaign’s agenda which isn’t based on fact.

And of course all those in the Out campaign will be totally honest, won’t have hidden agendas, will not exaggerate the benefits of leaving or the pitfalls of not voting Out?

798

Most of last 12 pages is taken up with pointing out that OUT needs to run a positive campaign .

IN can only ever do a negative campaign because they are status quo . there is no positive message they can possibly sell .

OUT can go either way , and i personally think its about time they started selling a positive message for our future , because the little i have heard from them so far has been negative

799

OUT definitely for me,had radio4 on this morning people were ringing up “I’m worried about not being in the EU what will happen”
We ruled countries all over the world for years on our own had a country to be proud of,now it’s just a pale shadow that’s left,immigrants costs the NHS 4 times what immigrants put into the NHS also school and housing is stuffed.
Block the tunnel pull up the drawbridge were full kick them all out that don’t belong here,government don’t want to see what they are causing no go areas for whites Muslim ghettos any vote is a vote for them.
We traded with the world very well long before the EU stuck their noses in when we had coal and steel the world wanted.
I’m not being “racist” I’m proud to be English and want to live in a country that’s still Christian not Muslim.

800

muckles:
And of course all those in the Out campaign will be totally honest, won’t have hidden agendas, will not exaggerate the benefits of leaving or the pitfalls of not voting Out?

The out campaign doesn’t need to lie because it is based on facts.IE the Net costs of membership,trade deficit,and the loss of national parliamentary sovereignty contained in the treaties of Rome,Maastricht and Lisbon.None of which were nor possibly could have been fixed by Dave’s bs ‘re negotiations’.Therefore just as in 1975 the in campaign is based on lies while the out campaign is based on facts.