DRIVER CPC - An interesting senario and answer

[rog]

This query came up in the newbies but I thought it might be of interest

Smart Mart:

Rog wrote:-

Now, the bit I’m not sure on is this…

If say, in 2 years time, you do your INITIAL driver cpc for LGV - I don’t know whether that will then extend the need for a PERIODIC driver cpc until 2015 - one of those oddities I must remember to ask about…

Don’t know who you could ask - I doubt the DSA have thought about that yet!

Personally I would assume that any time you do Initial Driver CPC that will cover all classes of licence for 5 years - so if you have a CatD and then in 2012 you do a CatC with the Initial Driver CPC, that should cover you until 2017, when you would have to of completed 35 hours periodic training.

I think I know where to ask… will update when got definitive answer

Date: 2008/10/27 Mon AM 08:26:52 GMT
To: drivercpc@dsa.gsi.gov.uk
A driver has recently passed their INITIAL PCV DRIVER CPC
(2008).
They then pass their INITIAL LGV DRIVER CPC 2 YEARS LATER
(2010).
By which year do they have to complete the 35 hours of PERIODIC
DRIVER CPC - 2013 OR 2015 ?

ANSWER =

Ok, curiosity got the better of me so instead of waiting for a reply, I phoned them.

The driver PERIODIC CPC ‘5 YEAR CLOCK’ resets if another INITIAL DRIVER CPC is passed so the answer is 2015 for the above senario.

This got me thinking - LGV driver on grandfather rights has until 2014 to complete the 35 hours of PERIODIC DRIVER CPC but if they had not got but wanted D, then they could time to take the INITIAL DRIVER CPC for PCV at the start of 2014 which would then mean that they had until 2019 to do the 35 hours of PERIODIC DRIVER CPC

I wonder which would be the cheaper option -
pay for 35 hours of PERIODIC DRIVER CPC from 2009 to 2014
or
take the INITIAL DRIVER CPC for PCV in early 2014 (which would also give the driver another licence catagory)

Hmmm…

[gogzy]

i cant frigging wait for this cpc to come in

[fastrantiger]

Rog, I’ve been out of a job since March 08, now if I dont succeed in getting a driving job in the foreseeable future do I have to pay for this CPC out of my non existant earnings or do I just lose my licence if it’s not done? I’ve had a vocational licence somewhere around 35 years give or take a year or so.

Tiger.

[rog]

Fastrantiger:
Rog, I’ve been out of a job since March 08, now if I dont succeed in getting a driving job in the foreseeable future do I have to pay for this CPC out of my non existant earnings or do I just lose my licence if it’s not done? I’ve had a vocational licence somewhere around 35 years give or take a year or so.

Tiger.

This is a very simple explanation for the two types of DRIVER CPC.
It deliberately does not go into any sort of detail as a lot of the details have not yet been finalised.

I have posted this in the PDF & the NEWBIES forums as it covers both the INITIAL & PERIODIC DRIVER CPCs.

There are TWO types of DRIVER CPC.

The INITIAL (to get a C or C1 licence) & the PERIODIC (ongoing) for when you have the C1, C or C+E licence

The INITIAL driver cpc is purely for a C or C1 licence acquisition and is about the same as what is done now but with some senario questions added as an extra theory test and a half hour extra of questions about certain areas of safety which may include physically showing the examiner how to strap, chain, rope a load etc

The PERIODIC driver cpc is to be (unless they change it) an ATTENDANCE of 35 hours of training at an approved centre or with an approved trainer and can be done in 5 x 7 hour sessions - the 7 hour sessions can be split into 2 half consecutive days.( 2 x 3.5 hours)

I do not know what it will cover or consist of because the DSA etc have not finalised it yet

If you have a C1, C or C+E licence on Sept 10 2009 then the 35 hours will need to be done by Sept 2014 to retain your right to drive for HIRE or REWARD - it does NOT affect your right to retain your LGV licence.

Those that pass the INITIAL driver cpc after Sept 10 2009 will have to do their PERIODIC driver cpc within 5 years from their pass date - the 5 year expiry date should be on the issued DRIVER CPC CARD.

The medical requirements will not change.

The upgrading to a C+E licence will not change from what it is now.

I Hope that I have managed to make things a little clearer and I regret that I cannot offer any more positive info than I have already put here

The DRIVER CPC is not the same as other CPCs

[gogzy]

the government hasnt thought this through very well have they

the economy is falling apart and theres alot of truckers without jobs

something needs to be done

[rog]

gogzy:
the government hasnt thought this through very well have they

the economy is falling apart and theres alot of truckers without jobs

something needs to be done

It is being done and they have thought it through

They are trying to put a lot off in continuing their LGV careers by this cpc thing so they leave the industry - there - not so many without jobs now - sorted - yes

[delboytwo]

ROG said
I do not know what it will cover or consist of because the DSA etc have not finalised it yet

hi rog fond this link

is this the sylibus

del

[fastrantiger]

Thanks Rog, that was a very clear and concise explanation and answered exactly what I wanted to know. Now why can’t government departments give a straight answer like that!

Tiger

PS. How many politicians does it take to change a lightbulb?

‘The Government is well aware of the situation and we are setting up a committee to look into the feasibility of changing it.’

[rog]

delboytwo:
ROG said
I do not know what it will cover or consist of because the DSA etc have not finalised it yet

hi rog fond this

is this the sylibus

del

I think you will find that that is an initial draft for the objectives and not the actual course remit

PS - could you reduce the size of your link as it makes the page too wide - ta - if you quote this reply then you can see how it can be done

[fastrantiger]

PS - could you reduce the size of your link as it makes the page too wide - ta

You need a wide screen monitor Rog

Tiger.

[kenny1975]

Heres what you do if you work for an agency or work some place where they won’t put you through your CPC.

You wait till it runs out then go down the DSS sign on, when they ask you what experience you have say well ive been a HGV driver for many years but now can’t drive because don’t have this CPC.

Then DSS pays for you to go do your CPC

Before people start going on about tax payers money, just gotta add live alone, get little tax relief. no family credit etc… fed up paying through the nose for others may as well get something back for the thousands i pay in taxes.

[gogzy]

ROG:

gogzy:
the government hasnt thought this through very well have they

the economy is falling apart and theres alot of truckers without jobs

something needs to be done

It is being done and they have thought it through

They are trying to put a lot off in continuing their LGV careers by this cpc thing so they leave the industry - there - not so many without jobs now - sorted - yes

yea if that works but we`ll have to wait till 2014 by then and we shall have an influx of younger drives who cant get insured to drive these trucks. im finding it hard to get work because of insurance because im only 22 so hows an 18 year old gonna be able to get insured on a rigid let alone an artic?

the cpc is a good thing they just need to get rid of lowering the age you can drive a rigid or artic and keep them at 21, the first time an 18 or 19 year old kills somebody with a truck folk will be calling for it to be raised again.

if anyone under 21 wants to get into trucking they should start on 7.5 tonners at 18 and work their way up like most fo us have done.

[fastrantiger]

gogzy:
[the cpc is a good thing they just need to get rid of lowering the age you can drive a rigid or artic and keep them at 21, the first time an 18 or 19 year old kills somebody with a truck folk will be calling for it to be raised again.

if anyone under 21 wants to get into trucking they should start on 7.5 tonners at 18 and work their way up like most fo us have done.

Well said gogzy, 21 should be the minimum age for any HGV driver and given the fact that insurance is an issue for young drivers, minimum age for Class 1 should be 25. This would allow time for some experience to be gained on Class 2.

Tiger.

[gogzy]

Fastrantiger:

gogzy:
[the cpc is a good thing they just need to get rid of lowering the age you can drive a rigid or artic and keep them at 21, the first time an 18 or 19 year old kills somebody with a truck folk will be calling for it to be raised again.

if anyone under 21 wants to get into trucking they should start on 7.5 tonners at 18 and work their way up like most fo us have done.

Well said gogzy, 21 should be the minimum age for any HGV driver and given the fact that insurance is an issue for young drivers, minimum age for Class 1 should be 25. This would allow time for some experience to be gained on Class 2.

Tiger.

as much as i would have hated that idea when i first started i see now it would have been a better idea as i said before the government havnt thought it through properly at all aspects of the cpc.

[david_h]

What ever way you look at it, if the CPC is law then you have to do it in order to continue driving a truck. Having a drivers CPC will also give you the edge over those without one. What it won’t do is solve all the problems its been created for but finally and at last it will place CPC holding drivers as a finite resourse that requires investment to keep, i.e. it just may be that as you are now costing the company to train and maintain, the said company might be a bit more eager to keep you on their books. On the other hand, Agencies may try to poach you away, paying a premium if you hold a CPC. Don’t knock it until you’ve got it.

[delboytwo]

ROG:

delboytwo:
ROG said
I do not know what it will cover or consist of because the DSA etc have not finalised it yet

hi rog fond this

is this the sylibus

del

I think you will find that that is an initial draft for the objectives and not the actual course remit

PS - could you reduce the size of your link as it makes the page too wide - ta - if you quote this reply then you can see how it can be done

cheers for that ROG always wounderd how to do that thanks again

[smart_mart]

Rog wrote:-

Smart Mart wrote:
Its got me thinking as well Rog. What about if after any 5 year period you do the two modules required for cpc i.e. the case study and the half hour practical? That would be cheaper than the 35 hours periodic training. After all if you don’t drive vocationaly you never need those two parts, so what is to stop you just doing them every 5 years?

I’ve started a new post in the PDF on this - HERE to save completely hi-jacking this thread - sorry OP

But - to answer you - I think that would only be allowed as part of INITIAL DRIVER CPC ‘Licence aquisition’ which is tested by the DSA - the PERIODIC remit for testing is different.

My point was made on the supposition that if you did not do the periodic training and Driver CPC would then lapse, would you re-do the intial qualification again, and if so then it may be cheaper to do the 2 DSA tests rather than the 35 hours periodic training. There are of course those of us who will get Driver CPC under ‘grandfather rights’ who will not have ever done the Initial training. - 35 hours of Periodic will probably cost over £1000, whereas Initial will only cost around £200 i would guess, including vehicle hire for the 1/2 hour practical.

[rog]

Smart Mart:

Rog wrote:-

Smart Mart wrote:
Its got me thinking as well Rog. What about if after any 5 year period you do the two modules required for cpc i.e. the case study and the half hour practical? That would be cheaper than the 35 hours periodic training. After all if you don’t drive vocationaly you never need those two parts, so what is to stop you just doing them every 5 years?

I’ve started a new post in the PDF on this - HERE to save completely hi-jacking this thread - sorry OP

But - to answer you - I think that would only be allowed as part of INITIAL DRIVER CPC ‘Licence aquisition’ which is tested by the DSA - the PERIODIC remit for testing is different.

My point was made on the supposition that if you did not do the periodic training and Driver CPC would then lapse, would you re-do the intial qualification again, and if so then it may be cheaper to do the 2 DSA tests rather than the 35 hours periodic training. There are of course those of us who will get Driver CPC under ‘grandfather rights’ who will not have ever done the Initial training. - 35 hours of Periodic will probably cost over £1000, whereas Initial will only cost around £200 i would guess, including vehicle hire for the 1/2 hour practical.

I’m fairly sure that the INITIAL can only be done for licence aquisition and not at any other time - one way is if the licence was revoked and a full test was to be done to get it back - the 5 year clock would then start at the beginning again

[smart_mart]

The Initial can be done at any time in order to be able to drive vocationally. A person can just do Part 1, the theory/hazard perception test and Part 3 the practical driving test in order to get a licence but has to pass the other parts (Part 2,Case Study and part 4 Driver CPC Practical Test) in order to be able to drive professionally, but as there is no time limit or indeed any requirement to do parts 2 and 4.

So are you saying that parts 2 and 4 can only ever be taken once - I don’t see that that is the case - it may be the intention, but if say someone loses Driver CPC for say 10 years, are they obliged to do 35 hours Periodic or could they simply just do parts 2 and 4, and then continue with Periodic after that?

[renaultman]

I’m not totally sure on this, and I stand to be corrected, but in Agriculture to be a spray operator, you need points, these points are gained by attending courses, subscibing to periodicals like Farmers Weekly etc, even things like attending the Great Yorkshire show I believe
My point is; Legislation, and industry practise is a constantly evolving thing, like it or not, and although I for one don’t want to throw any of my money, at the driver cpc. I consider myself in a largeish minority, who take an interest in the Road haulage industry, hence being a member on here, and subscribing to far to many industry emails I’m not saying for one minute, that extra training won’t benefit me, just that as in most things nowadays, it seems to have been poorly thought out, and it’s a shame, it couldn’t be more tailored to the driver’s awareness of current rules and practises.