Wages

[andrejs]

muckles:

Andrejs:
If they count average wages in industrial sector for not so much skilled job(drivers as well no so much skilled job) and not inclusive management salary in warehouse ,staff factory that Uk average wages will be just around 15-20 k per years.

Then it’s not a national average, just an average for a certain demographic.

In 90 percent of all factory people work day shift and 40 hours per week for just 7.80.or it is about 15K per years.From all factory what i know just Landrover pay very good -about 30K per years.But most food production factory and not high value stuff production staff just about NMW.At most warehouse people get about 10p/h at day shift or it is about 20K per years.But never know any place where tupical staff earn 28K per years for basic hours.All construction,NHS staff,school,budget,council staff,trader and more -it is another side of life and business.

[andrejs]

robroy:

adam277:
Everywhere I have worked the people in the office are effectively my boss yet they are often paid a lot less then me.
I have often worked at places in which I have known I am being paid more then my boss.

This is a weird situation right? I also suspect it is not unique to me.
Yes I’m sure we could argue quite easily that it is us that take all the risk and responsibility but it still seems rather wrong.

So what’s your guys view on it?

Why is it wrong exactly? and it’s got nothing to do with ‘‘risk and responsibility’’ either.
Many drivers either have to (or do voluntarily) 70 + hours a week.
The office types are starting at 9 and finishing at 5, or similar type hours.
Simple really.

Drivers can t legally work 70 hours per week if work just 5 day per week.Most companies taked out 30 min for break.If driver work closed to full shift that can be just about 60-63 hours per week because omost shift will be just 12h30 min or 14h30 min and minus break time.But mainly drivers at most companies work just about 50-60 per week if this person not sleep every corners.

[conor]

Andrejs:
Drivers can t legally work 70 hours per week if work just 5 day per week.

Mon 15hrs
Tue 15hrs
Wed 13hrs
Thu 13hrs
Fri 13hrs

69hrs. So yes not 70hrs but so close it might as well be.

[toonsy]

Conor:

Andrejs:
Drivers can t legally work 70 hours per week if work just 5 day per week.

Mon 15hrs
Tue 15hrs
Wed 13hrs
Thu 13hrs
Fri 13hrs

69hrs. So yes not 70hrs but so close it might as well be.

You could do 71hrs. Three 15hr shifts…

[rjan]

Andrejs:

muckles:

Andrejs:
If they count average wages in industrial sector for not so much skilled job(drivers as well no so much skilled job) and not inclusive management salary in warehouse ,staff factory that Uk average wages will be just around 15-20 k per years.

Then it’s not a national average, just an average for a certain demographic.

In 90 percent of all factory people work day shift and 40 hours per week for just 7.80.or it is about 15K per years.From all factory what i know just Landrover pay very good -about 30K per years.But most food production factory and not high value stuff production staff just about NMW.

And those wages are too low, but if you’re getting £7.80 in a factory (and you can usually get a little bit more if you’re doing anything of a responsible nature), and for that you usually work closer to home, with fixed normal start times (or at least a predictable shift pattern), usually standard 8 hours, and you’ve got the craic with the fellas you work with on a daily basis (even if it’s just having a laugh during breaks and lunches), and you’re home to see your wife and kids every night and go the pub, why would you drive for a couple of pounds an hour more?

Even if you’re getting £9 or £10 an hour driving (which is probably the general haulage rate), after tax that is only about £50 a week more, net after tax and for the equivalent hours. And for that you’ve got ridiculous flexible start times, long hours, never know when you’ll be finished, you’ve got the costs that go with licences and medicals, you’ve got the threats to your licence from clapped-out wagons or poorly secured loads, you’ve got some driving jobs that involve almost as much or more manual labour that some factory jobs, and so on.

Unless you’re wedded to driving or in one of the better jobs where you’re getting well into double-digit hourly rates, I can see there’s really not much in it. If you’re a family man who wants to have any real time at home, working in a warehouse or driving a Transit van has its advantages even if you’re on less money.

In my general impression, there’s a disproportionate number of fellas in HGV driving who don’t have family lives.

Just thinking about one small yard (this was a few years ago), one fella was an single alcoholic, one fella was getting divorced (apparently over the strains of the job on the relationship), another had an older wife who already had kids but didn’t want kids of his own, another considered himself as a breadwinner who barely saw his kids and was constantly moaning about his shifts (but wasn’t willing to take the hit in pay), the yard supervisor was an ex-forces career fella with no family, it’s an appalling vista really.

[albion]

Colin_scottish:
I earned £36.300 last year and my average hours worked out at 42 hours.There is good paying jobs near me but the bs that goes with them is not worth the extra pay in my eyes.

Top earned was 48500 for an average of 63 hours, included a lot of ferry time, so not work as in driving or loading. Getting paid for being bored sometimes.

I don’t earn that much, work around 50-55 hours, but get woken up sometimes, on the other hand I view it as a long game and I have options as a business owner that drivers don’t, so I’m quite content.

Rjan, not everyone wants family. I agree if you want to be home playing happy families and you are away, then you need to change jobs. However, some of us are very happy having no family, no children, and single. More freedom to me, though I’m happy to acknowledge I am probably in a minority.

[robroy]

Wheel Nut:

robroy:
Many drivers either have to (or do voluntarily) 70 + hours a week.

The office types are starting at 9 and finishing at 5, or similar type hours.
Simple really.

The office types that answer the phone at 10pm because a drivers kid has a snotty nose and can’t work tomorrow,
Then has to find another driver or swap jobs about, then the main customer rings at 3am because a trailer is leaking. Yeah right, 9 till 5 only in a greeting card shop [emoji23]

Ok I accept that but so do they when they sign their contract of employment.
Being ‘‘On Call’’ is hardly the same as doing a full shift,.and it isn’t as if they are constantly on the phone all night is it?..+ they will be on a bonus or whatever for it.
I still.say finishing at 5/6pm and going home or to pub or whatever armed with your mobile ‘just in case’ beats starting at 4am and finishing at 7pm.
I remember when I was complaining to my boss about working stupid hours and wanting a reduction, his daughter pipes up.and says ''My Dad is working 24/7 to which I replied ‘‘Yeh and I’m sure he gets fairly paid and amply rewarded for it, where as I don’t so I don’t want it’’ …and cut back my weekly hours.

[wheel_nut]

robroy:

Wheel Nut:

robroy:
Many drivers either have to (or do voluntarily) 70 + hours a week.

The office types are starting at 9 and finishing at 5, or similar type hours.
Simple really.

The office types that answer the phone at 10pm because a drivers kid has a snotty nose and can’t work tomorrow,
Then has to find another driver or swap jobs about, then the main customer rings at 3am because a trailer is leaking. Yeah right, 9 till 5 only in a greeting card shop [emoji23]

Ok I accept that but so do they when they sign their contract of employment.
Being ‘‘On Call’’ is hardly the same as doing a full shift,.and it isn’t as if they are constantly on the phone all night is it?..+ they will be on a bonus or whatever for it.
I still.say finishing at 5/6pm and going home or to pub or whatever armed with your mobile ‘just in case’ beats starting at 4am and finishing at 7pm.
I remember when I was complaining to my boss about working stupid hours and wanting a reduction, his daughter pipes up.and says ''My Dad is working 24/7 to which I replied ‘‘Yeh and I’m sure he gets fairly paid and amply rewarded for it, where as I don’t so I don’t want it’’ …and cut back my weekly hours.

There’s no bonus for the office boy, if they have 3 drivers who has a kid with a snotty nose, the “office boy” has to make sure the lorries go out and maybe get in the office early.

One of my memories was going into Hull at 2 am loading waste acid and dragging the tank back to the yard, it sat there for three days but the factory kept running.

It means dropping someone’s unit who isn’t leaving early, leaving notes for others and getting back to be polite to customers all day.

[muckles]

robroy:

Wheel Nut:

robroy:
Many drivers either have to (or do voluntarily) 70 + hours a week.

The office types are starting at 9 and finishing at 5, or similar type hours.
Simple really.

The office types that answer the phone at 10pm because a drivers kid has a snotty nose and can’t work tomorrow,
Then has to find another driver or swap jobs about, then the main customer rings at 3am because a trailer is leaking. Yeah right, 9 till 5 only in a greeting card shop [emoji23]

Ok I accept that but so do they when they sign their contract of employment.
Being ‘‘On Call’’ is hardly the same as doing a full shift,.and it isn’t as if they are constantly on the phone all night is it?..+ they will be on a bonus or whatever for it.

Surely you know the hours of an HGV driver when you sign the contract?

Whether somebody on call will get a bonus for that will really depend on the company, bit like some drivers get bonuses for certain shifts and I’d bet that the person on call will earn far less than you.

And if you’re covering a decent sized fleet, I’d like to bet that there will be very few nights when somebody doesn’t ring up with some sort of problem.

[rjan]

albion:
Rjan, not everyone wants family. I agree if you want to be home playing happy families and you are away, then you need to change jobs. However, some of us are very happy having no family, no children, and single. More freedom to me, though I’m happy to acknowledge I am probably in a minority.

I accept that Albion. I never wanted kids myself. I’m simply painting a narrative of how willfully unsociable the occupation has become as a norm, and even for myself I’ve had rows with my other half when driving just over things like the fact that the alarm clock is going off at 3am or that evenings can’t be planned, and I’ve never been so wedded to work that spending 12 hours on the road is all I need in life.

And like I say, if every driver was simply living the life footloose and fancy-free, that would be one thing, but a lot of people I see seem to end up in undesirable life situations, and that’s why the industry can’t attract and retain warehouse workers just for an extra couple of pounds an hour.

Like I say, the fella who was a ■■■■■■■■ at that yard I mentioned seemed like a really lonely fella. At least the yard supervisor spent all day around familiar faces and places. As a driver (especially in general Class 1 haulage nowadays) you’re not usually doing that, and need something outside of work, and those who had relationships and family lives were clearly having them strained badly by the conditions of work.

[robroy]

muckles:
Surely you know the hours of an HGV driver when you sign the contract?

Whether somebody on call will get a bonus for that will really depend on the company, bit like some drivers get bonuses for certain shifts and I’d bet that the person on call will earn far less than you.

And if you’re covering a decent sized fleet, I’d like to bet that there will be very few nights when somebody doesn’t ring up with some sort of problem.

Errr… yes, believe it or not.
I just came to the conclusion after 35 years (maybe a bit late) that there was more to life than spending three quarters of it in a ■■■■ truck, and for inadequate (in my view) pay for it
■■■■■■ off with a life of maxing out, weekending, away all week and all the rest of it.
I toyed with jacking but came to an agreement I would cut my hours and have a full 2 and a half day weekend every week,.and I never start before 6 am.
In a previous life I also ran 6 or so of my own trucks and fully understand the concept of being on call.

But thanks anyway.

[rob_k]

Rjan:

albion:
Rjan, not everyone wants family. I agree if you want to be home playing happy families and you are away, then you need to change jobs. However, some of us are very happy having no family, no children, and single. More freedom to me, though I’m happy to acknowledge I am probably in a minority.

I accept that Albion. I never wanted kids myself. I’m simply painting a narrative of how willfully unsociable the occupation has become as a norm, and even for myself I’ve had rows with my other half when driving just over things like the fact that the alarm clock is going off at 3am or that evenings can’t be planned, and I’ve never been so wedded to work that spending 12 hours on the road is all I need in life.

And like I say, if every driver was simply living the life footloose and fancy-free, that would be one thing, but a lot of people I see seem to end up in undesirable life situations, and that’s why the industry can’t attract and retain warehouse workers just for an extra couple of pounds an hour.

Like I say, the fella who was a ■■■■■■■■ at that yard I mentioned seemed like a really lonely fella. At least the yard supervisor spent all day around familiar faces and places. As a driver (especially in general Class 1 haulage nowadays) you’re not usually doing that, and need something outside of work, and those who had relationships and family lives were clearly having them strained badly by the conditions of work.

Most tramper drivers who are married or have a long-term OH are kidding themselves when they tell you how they have “a good woman at home who’d never cheat on me”. Some years later when you bump into them in the yard and get chatting they tell you that the wife cheated on them and left them for another bloke and now they’re all on their tod . Heard it so many times. It’s like they genuinely believe their wife/OH actually enjoys rattling around in the house on her own for 5.5 days at a time with no male company, or enjoys having to bring up the kids on her own and keep the house in order. Completely [zb] deluded. All those that say they’re happy and don’t mind are the ones that are getting serviced by your best mate because they’re bored out of their minds while you’re sat in the Red Lion having a few pints and telling anyone who’ll listen what a good honest woman she is .

[albion]

I was happy on my own for 6 years when Mr A worked away, definitely wasn’t looking for another chap and now that I’ve been single for near enough 5 years, I can tell you it’s staying that way.

Possibly different for me because my dad was away a lot, so it’s normal to me.

[rob_k]

albion:
I was happy on my own for 6 years when Mr A worked away, definitely wasn’t looking for another chap and now that I’ve been single for near enough 5 years, I can tell you it’s staying that way.

Possibly different for me because my dad was away a lot, so it’s normal to me.

Is there a connection here?

Btw I thought you were a bloke . There was another user called albion something who claimed to be a woman and I’d just assumed it was people getting the 2 usernames mixed up .

[nomis36]

toonsy:

Conor:

Andrejs:
Drivers can t legally work 70 hours per week if work just 5 day per week.

Mon 15hrs
Tue 15hrs
Wed 13hrs
Thu 13hrs
Fri 13hrs

69hrs. So yes not 70hrs but so close it might as well be.

You could do 71hrs. Three 15hr shifts…

What about helping the boss out by doing a ‘couple of hours on Saturday’ (13) to be precise [emoji57]

[juddian]

I feel sorry for blokes who have managed to find such poor examples of women for themselves, that they now believe all women can’t be trusted.

Maybe some blokes would be well advised to stop looking at the packaging and look for the real beauty in women, which comes from deep within and not painted on the outside to attract, like a lemon flower that might look nice but in time bears bitter fruit.

[rob_k]

Juddian:
I feel sorry for blokes who have managed to find such poor examples of women for themselves, that they now believe all women can’t be trusted.

Maybe some blokes would be well advised to stop looking at the packaging and look for the real beauty in women, which comes from deep within and not painted on the outside to attract, like a lemon flower that might look nice but in time bears bitter fruit.

What, you mean like those “gems” in S E Asia you alluded to in your post yesterday? Are those the same “gems” that love you long time and will do anything for you so long as you tie the knot and then they can fleece you for all you’re worth so they can buy a nice house for themself and their family back home, whilst doing the same thing to their other 5 husbands? What could possibly go wrong?

[muckles]

robroy:

muckles:
Surely you know the hours of an HGV driver when you sign the contract?

Errr… yes, believe it or not.

Sorry I could have worded it better, so it didn’t sound like I was aiming at you personally.

As drivers we should know what hours and inconveniences are expected from the job, as should the bod in the office when they take on their job.
But this doesn’t mean that drivers shouldn’t push for a better deal on hours and pay, especially is they have the upper hand because decent replacements are hard to find, because when the situation has been the other way round companies have had no problem in extending hours and reducing pay.

robroy:

muckles:
Whether somebody on call will get a bonus for that will really depend on the company, bit like some drivers get bonuses for certain shifts and I’d bet that the person on call will earn far less than you.

And if you’re covering a decent sized fleet, I’d like to bet that there will be very few nights when somebody doesn’t ring up with some sort of problem.

In a previous life I also ran 6 or so of my own trucks and fully understand the concept of being on call.

But thanks anyway.

And as an operator of a small haulage company I’m sure you were never really off work, even on the days your trucks weren’t running.

[muckles]

Rob K:
It’s like they genuinely believe their wife/OH actually enjoys rattling around in the house on her own for 5.5 days at a time with no male company, or enjoys having to bring up the kids on her own and keep the house in order.

Not sure about your part of the Country, but many of the women I know are quite capable of getting themselves out of the house without a man chaperoning them, some even have jobs or even a career.

[sammym]

nomiS36:

toonsy:

Conor:

Andrejs:
Drivers can t legally work 70 hours per week if work just 5 day per week.

Mon 15hrs
Tue 15hrs
Wed 13hrs
Thu 13hrs
Fri 13hrs

69hrs. So yes not 70hrs but so close it might as well be.

You could do 71hrs. Three 15hr shifts…

What about helping the boss out by doing a ‘couple of hours on Saturday’ (13) to be precise [emoji57]

You could do 15 every day if you are that way inclined. Just do a split daily rest.

15*5 = 75 hours plus saturdays. Oh the joy!