del trotter:
He’s already pleaded guilty to 8 charges of causing death by careless driving and 4 of careless driving, he is bang to rights, just trying to avoid the dangerous driving conviction and a longer sentence.
Agreed. They are both charged with eight counts of causing death by dangerous driving and four counts of causing serious injury by dangerous driving. I can’t see how either one can receive a Not Guilty verdict.
Stanley Knife:
del trotter:
He’s already pleaded guilty to 8 charges of causing death by careless driving and 4 of careless driving, he is bang to rights, just trying to avoid the dangerous driving conviction and a longer sentence.Agreed. They are both charged with eight counts of causing death by dangerous driving and four counts of causing serious injury by dangerous driving. I can’t see how either one can receive a Not Guilty verdict.
The guy stationary I agree has no chance as far as I can see.
I think fedex guy is going to try and say he made a misjudgement where he thought stationary vehicle was on the hard shoulder, maybe even that the mini bus was a fitters vehicle and was attempting some sort of repair. Then he is hoping (as has already admitted) to being careless rather than dangerous. I don’t rate his chances but he perhaps thinks he has nothing to lose
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep. 3am on the M1 isn’t that busy you don’t need [zb] matrix signs to tell you what’s going on unless your tired, [zb] useless or both. We had three of them come together, all of them so called professionals…
Funnily enough, because this case is on our local East Midlands news regularly with there being a Leicester driver involved, I mentioned to a driver mate last night that the M1 wouldn’t be that busy at 3am and he told me that he regularly travels that section in the early hours and they are often nose to tail on it. Surprised me that, but then I haven’t driven for fifteen years now so well out of touch. 
Pete.
windrush:
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep. 3am on the M1 isn’t that busy you don’t need [zb] matrix signs to tell you what’s going on unless your tired, [zb] useless or both. We had three of them come together, all of them so called professionals…Funnily enough, because this case is on our local East Midlands news regularly with there being a Leicester driver involved, I mentioned to a driver mate last night that the M1 wouldn’t be that busy at 3am and he told me that he regularly travels that section in the early hours and they are often nose to tail on it. Surprised me that, but then I haven’t driven for fifteen years now so well out of touch.
Pete.
Depends which way your ariel points Pete iam getting look north news 
windrush:
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep. 3am on the M1 isn’t that busy you don’t need [zb] matrix signs to tell you what’s going on unless your tired, [zb] useless or both. We had three of them come together, all of them so called professionals…Funnily enough, because this case is on our local East Midlands news regularly with there being a Leicester driver involved, I mentioned to a driver mate last night that the M1 wouldn’t be that busy at 3am and he told me that he regularly travels that section in the early hours and they are often nose to tail on it. Surprised me that, but then I haven’t driven for fifteen years now so well out of touch.
Pete.
For sure and this is the reason the mini bus driver may not have had a decent chance to get out. I mean we know how courteous drivers are these days.
Rick W:
windrush:
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep. 3am on the M1 isn’t that busy you don’t need [zb] matrix signs to tell you what’s going on unless your tired, [zb] useless or both. We had three of them come together, all of them so called professionals…Funnily enough, because this case is on our local East Midlands news regularly with there being a Leicester driver involved, I mentioned to a driver mate last night that the M1 wouldn’t be that busy at 3am and he told me that he regularly travels that section in the early hours and they are often nose to tail on it. Surprised me that, but then I haven’t driven for fifteen years now so well out of touch.
Pete.
For sure and this is the reason the mini bus driver may not have had a decent chance to get out. I mean we know how courteous drivers are these days.
On the remote chance that I ended up stuck behind a parked vehicle in L of a motorway, I’d not even attempt to head into L2, it would be the hard shoulder to build up speed before re-joing ( presuming it wasn’t a smart motorway.
Stanley Knife:
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep.How would you know how much sleep he’d had? Would you ask him as you were getting on the bus? Would you then believe his answer? If someone were to ask you the same question would you answer them?
Some, if not all of the people on that minibus were aware of the reduced amount of sleep the driver had before making a long journey as reported at the time so no assumptions being made.
TiredAndEmotional:
Stanley Knife:
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep.How would you know how much sleep he’d had? Would you ask him as you were getting on the bus? Would you then believe his answer? If someone were to ask you the same question would you answer them?
Some, if not all of the people on that minibus were aware of the reduced amount of sleep the driver had before making a long journey as reported at the time so no assumptions being made.
It was indeed reported at the time. Someone said that he had stayed with a relative the evening before and gone to bed at around 10 pm. He would have been up again at 1 am to collect his passengers.
I think I’ve argued before that if there’s one thing a coroner will never say at an inquest, it is "The deceased died because of their own stupid fault".
Here’s one from this week where words must fail the Coroner in a similar manner, I reckon…
(Silent Witness Statement already includes “Zigzagging around the half-barriers”.)
From what I have found on various sites so far .
The drunk Polish driver had several near misses earlier in his journey and had a period of driving at 11mph on a normally moving motorway.
The minibus driver had only had 3 hrs sleep before setting out on a journey to Disney world Paris .
The FedEx driver was in conversation on a hands free phone and sat on cruise control, he did not brake or deviate before hitting the minibus that then travelled 25mtrs and hit the rear of the stopped truck in lane one .
It’s like a perfect storm of things that can go wrong .
Many have said how can this happen on a quiet motorway at night ? Well this section of the road system is very rarely as quiet as most would think , added to the fact it was holiday time with many getting an extra early getaway for trips like the minibus . The FedEx driver was not using his phone illegally, nor was the use of cruise control illegal . Not paying attention and realising what was happening in front of him is all to common on our roads these days . No doubt his life will be scrutinised, his work and sleep patterns and his lifestyle will be fully investigated as will the minibus and Polish driver .
Much hype will sorround phone use and cruise control systems but I personally think that many doing repetitive night runs tend to run on autopilot and many are not at full attention no matter what else is happening.
There are many faults in this unfortunate accident and I feel non of the drivers are without blame , it will be interesting to see how the court apportions that blame.
Stay safe guys and girls .
Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk
Santa:
TiredAndEmotional:
Some, if not all of the people on that minibus were aware of the reduced amount of sleep the driver had before making a long journey as reported at the time so no assumptions being made.It was indeed reported at the time. Someone said that he had stayed with a relative the evening before and gone to bed at around 10 pm. He would have been up again at 1 am to collect his passengers.
It’s true that he stayed at his cousin’s house the night before and slept from 2200 - 0100 in order to pick the party up at 0130 to take them to Eurotunnel Folkestone but those facts only become known later when the cousin is interviewed. It will be interesting if the four survivors make any reference to knowing this when questioned in court (if they are asked to attend).
Some very good points being made however can I pose a question.
If the mini bus driver was lucky enough to be alive do you think he would be charged baring in mind some of the facts already given may not be entirely correct.
Rick W:
Some very good points being made however can I pose a question.
If the mini bus driver was lucky enough to be alive do you think he would be charged baring in mind some of the facts already given may not be entirely correct.
If it was proved he’d only had three hours sleep I would say he would have been charged also.
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
P Stoff:
Rick W:
Some very good points being made however can I pose a question.
If the mini bus driver was lucky enough to be alive do you think he would be charged baring in mind some of the facts already given may not be entirely correct.If it was proved he’d only had three hours sleep I would say he would have been charged also.
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
Agreed. The guy whose landrover landed on the rail tracks by Selby after he had been on his computer all night was charged with death by dangerous driving.#
Possibly although surely it would depend if lack of sleep was a contributing factor to him getting stuck behind the parked lorry.
grumpyken52:
The minibus driver had only had 3 hrs sleep before setting out on a journey to Disney world Paris .
No. He had set out on a journey to London, where his passengers were to get on a coach for their journey to France.
windrush:
Funnily enough, because this case is on our local East Midlands news regularly with there being a Leicester driver involved,
Leicester? One from Stoke, one from Poland (but living in the Evesham area) and one from Nottingham.
Roymondo:
windrush:
Funnily enough, because this case is on our local East Midlands news regularly with there being a Leicester driver involved,Leicester? One from Stoke, one from Poland (but living in the Evesham area) and one from Nottingham.
Well I wasn’t far out! Still the East Midlands. 
Pete.
I wonder what is considered to be ‘adequate sleep’ then? For 20 years when I was driving trucks I only had around five or six hours sleep a night, even when I wasn’t working, and even now I’m long retired I rarely go to sleep much before 12.30am and am always awake by 6.30 and get up at 7am. If I stay in bed too long it makes me feel lethargic all day. Some folk need very little sleep and if this was just a ‘one off’ for the minibus driver I can’t really see that is an issue, though no doubt the court will think otherwise? Makes no odds to him now though.
Pete.
You can see the trucks from the crash of the m1 if your going northbound as soon as the slip road starts for newport Pagnell services look left and there they are
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk