Rick W: for the preceeding 15 mins everyone else drove round him apart from the indian who obviously wasnt hardly paying anymore attention than the fedex as he was stopped behind him. if he was paying attention then he would have driven round him like everyone else.
You were not there so you are only surmising the situation like many others were doing immediately after the accident on this forum.
Not really wise as you could certainly be very wrong and could easily offend if certain people read your views.
Given that there was a lorry in lane one for around ten minutes and no one else had struck them, I think it’s fair to say that everyone else went round the obstruction.
I also think that the only difference between the minibus driver and the Fed ex driver is that the bus driver stopped. Given the position of the bus when it was struck, that can’t be in doubt either.
In ANY incident, there is a chain of events that lead up to it. Break that chain at any point, and the incident doesn’t happen. Now I’m not defending either lorry driver here, but the bus driver made a mistake and found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that contributed to the collision.
You may be right, you may be wrong but you are definitely surmising as you do not know all the details. Not wise in my book but it’s an open forum for discussion.
according to the above report the truck struck the stationary minibus that was stopped 25 yards behind the polish dude in lane 1…
this is the same minibus driven by a guy that was meant to have had about 3 hours kip.hence he wasnt paying atention and got stuck in lane 1 behind the pole.
if he was also paying attention then it might have been prudent to hit 90000 revs and drop the clutch heading for the hard shoulder watching mr fedex showing no signs of slowing down or avoiding running into the back of him.
A tragic chain of events initiated by that prat of a Pole who decided to get ratarsed and park up in a live lane of a motorway, everyone else involved can blame him imo, if he hadn’t done that the accident would not have happened as we’ve all driven tired or bored and even both !!
Rick W:
It may all become clearer in the next few days when the correct evidence becomes available.
So that’s it? Nothing should be discussed until all evidence is available and guilt has been placed somewhere?
All people are doing is reacting to what is available currently. I’m sure if anything earth shattering is uncovered in the next eight days people’s opinions will change, but the salient facts thus far are that one driver was twice over the limit and had been stationary in a live lane for some time, a lot of drivers seen it, one minibus driver didn’t then one driver who was on his phone failed to see either.
Rick W: for the preceeding 15 mins everyone else drove round him apart from the indian who obviously wasnt hardly paying anymore attention than the fedex as he was stopped behind him. if he was paying attention then he would have driven round him like everyone else.
You were not there so you are only surmising the situation like many others were doing immediately after the accident on this forum.
Not really wise as you could certainly be very wrong and could easily offend if certain people read your views.
Given that there was a lorry in lane one for around ten minutes and no one else had struck them, I think it’s fair to say that everyone else went round the obstruction.
I also think that the only difference between the minibus driver and the Fed ex driver is that the bus driver stopped. Given the position of the bus when it was struck, that can’t be in doubt either.
In ANY incident, there is a chain of events that lead up to it. Break that chain at any point, and the incident doesn’t happen. Now I’m not defending either lorry driver here, but the bus driver made a mistake and found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that contributed to the collision.
Cavey , you make a very good point there. Take out the middle man ie the mini bus driver, I have to ask did he actually contribute to the accident? IMHO no, I think as you say wrong place wrong time. The Polish driver was stopped in L1 , the FedEx driver, if as said, he wasn’t concentrating, he would have still run up the back of the other wagon, but sadly there was another vehicle in his path. And maybe that may have saved his own life, but he will surely have that thought on his mind for the rest of his life
Rick W:
Remember reading the comments of some on here just after the accident. Especially one poster who seemed adamant the fedex driver was innocent for some strange reason.
As per usual the cause is human error and highlights the dangers of cruise control and talking on a phone whilst driving.
Complete lack of concentration on the road ahead.
Dave Wagstaff is innocent until proven guilty - like anyone and everyone else should be.
Cavey , you make a very good point there. Take out the middle man ie the mini bus driver, I have to ask did he actually contribute to the accident? IMHO no, I think as you say wrong place wrong time. The Polish driver was stopped in L1 , the FedEx driver, if as said, he wasn’t concentrating, he would have still run up the back of the other wagon, but sadly there was another vehicle in his path. And maybe that may have saved his own life, but he will surely have that thought on his mind for the rest of his life
I see your point, it was a poor choice of words on my part. The collision would have taken place with or without the minibus being there. If I was to continue this train of thought, it would sound like I was placing blame for the loss of life where (I personally think) it ought not lie. I don’t want to do that.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned though. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that section isn’t smart motorway yet. But there should still be some matrix signs on the approach. Were they lit and warning of the obstruction? If not, why not? Ten minutes is a long time for nobody to ring that through. Was there a failing in the system that’s supposed to protect drivers in these types of instances?
Cavey , you make a very good point there. Take out the middle man ie the mini bus driver, I have to ask did he actually contribute to the accident? IMHO no, I think as you say wrong place wrong time. The Polish driver was stopped in L1 , the FedEx driver, if as said, he wasn’t concentrating, he would have still run up the back of the other wagon, but sadly there was another vehicle in his path. And maybe that may have saved his own life, but he will surely have that thought on his mind for the rest of his life
I see your point, it was a poor choice of words on my part. The collision would have taken place with or without the minibus being there. If I was to continue this train of thought, it would sound like I was placing blame for the loss of life where (I personally think) it ought not lie. I don’t want to do that.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned though. Correct me if I’m wrong, but that section isn’t smart motorway yet. But there should still be some matrix signs on the approach. Were they lit and warning of the obstruction? If not, why not? Ten minutes is a long time for nobody to ring that through. Was there a failing in the system that’s supposed to protect drivers in these types of instances?
I’m sure that will come out in the court proceedings. But the blame must not be put on the shoulders of some button pusher
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep. 3am on the M1 isn’t that busy you don’t need ■■■■■■■ matrix signs to tell you what’s going on unless your tired, ■■■■■■■ useless or both. We had three of them come together, all of them so called professionals…
Obviously the fact he was stopped in a live lane while drunk is totally out of order but st he had found him self stopped in lane 1 due to a breakdown he couldn’t realy be blamed for that.
It sounds like bad driving from the mini bus driver and driver error from the fed ex driver are as much to blame.
Last year I went to a day at the races on the m25.
On the way home we suffered a blow out and the driver stopped in the outside lane and only us screaming at him got him to get to the hard shoulder.
He didn’t know how to change a wheel and I ended up doing it.
As I see it each driver contributed to the crash in some way. Obviously the ■■■■■■ up driver asleep in lane one shouldn’t have been doing that, the minibus driver was also driving without paying attention, there are three or more lanes on a motorway, how do you get to the point where you have to stop behind a stationary vehicle? Especially at 3am when traffic is light, you may have to move out into the middle lane a bit sharpish as you catch a stationary vehicle a lot faster than a slow moving one, but to come to a stop, either not paying attention or can’t drive to save his life, either way, it’s a contributing factor. Fed Ex man, clearly driving without due care and attention, the fact that he hit two stationary vehicles proves that beyond any doubt. The court case is a formality, the only thing needed is sentencing and because all involved were professional drivers, they should all get the maximum sentence possible.
Rick W:
Remember reading the comments of some on here just after the accident. Especially one poster who seemed adamant the fedex driver was innocent for some strange reason.
As per usual the cause is human error and highlights the dangers of cruise control and talking on a phone whilst driving.
Complete lack of concentration on the road ahead.
Dave Wagstaff is innocent until proven guilty
He’s already pleaded guilty to 8 charges of causing death by careless driving and 4 of careless driving, he is bang to rights, just trying to avoid the dangerous driving conviction and a longer sentence.
Society needs to make its mind up about hands free phones, vehicles are now designed to plug phones in and use when on the move, but get in an accident and you will have hell to pay. Like it or lump it we all know where we stand with hand held phones, but hands free ■■? with something as commonly used as hands free in vehicles designed to utilise them, there needs to be a definitive YES or NO
Rick W:
Remember reading the comments of some on here just after the accident. Especially one poster who seemed adamant the fedex driver was innocent for some strange reason.
As per usual the cause is human error and highlights the dangers of cruise control and talking on a phone whilst driving.
Complete lack of concentration on the road ahead.
Dave Wagstaff is innocent until proven guilty - like anyone and everyone else should be.
Absolute nonsense … all people are guilty until proven innocent … when read rights, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something you might rely on in court … anything said, is used against you … when a no comment interview is given it harms your defence … rather than it being the police need to prove a case … people are always guilty until proven innocent …
This driver, well he needs a jail sentence … the accident was totally avoidable … and he polish driver knowingly drove over the limit … if that idiot had not of the people would not of been dead … i don’t want to hear he had personal issues or mental health issues …
If he had mental issues did he seek medical help and inform the DVLA… they both deserve a long stretch in HMPS
SHYTOT:
Sad as it is if that minibus was not there Mr Wagstaff would be dead
they should make all phones inop in a moving vehicle
I know what you mean, but we double man and I expect to talk to the second man if need be. Our company policy is no phone/ipod etc usage including hands free.
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep.
How would you know how much sleep he’d had? Would you ask him as you were getting on the bus? Would you then believe his answer? If someone were to ask you the same question would you answer them?
TiredAndEmotional:
Everybody is dancing around it but if the truth be told not many of us would have been happy to get in a minibus with an Asian driver who was short of sleep.
How would you know how much sleep he’d had? Would you ask him as you were getting on the bus? Would you then believe his answer? If someone were to ask you the same question would you answer them?
Rick W:
It may all become clearer in the next few days when the correct evidence becomes available.
So that’s it? Nothing should be discussed until all evidence is available and guilt has been placed somewhere?
All people are doing is reacting to what is available currently. I’m sure if anything earth shattering is uncovered in the next eight days people’s opinions will change, but the salient facts thus far are that one driver was twice over the limit and had been stationary in a live lane for some time, a lot of drivers seen it, one minibus driver didn’t then one driver who was on his phone failed to see either.
Toonsy you must have missed what I posted earlier… Not wise in my book but it’s an open forum for discussion.
I just do not like the fact some make presumptions which may be true but they also may not. Nobody knows for sure exactly what happened. For sure discuss but do not blame without evidence.
Read the original post and see all the wrong assumptions.
