Buzzer:
Just another point I would like to raise can any one on here tell me where the 90 billion severance number came from, who worked it out and what exactly is it for in our so called divorce bill, that sum is monstrous and I doubt that Greece, Spain or Portugal to name just three countries would be able to find the funds like that put in a similar position there citizens would revolt for sure.
Personally I would welcome a no deal and face what comes our way after all Germany depleted us in the second world war and it was hard but we all pulled together and recovered as a nation after that five year confrontation, yes it took time but we got through that and were a better nation for it afterwards so lets just say cheerio and get on with our daily business we will do just fine, just hope I live long enough to see it through and say I told you so at the end of the day, Buzzer.
Buzzer,
The severance bill to leave the EU has been agreed at 39 billion,where did you hear it was set at 90 billion?
David
David even if it is 39 Billion where did they cook that figure from as its still far too much, suspect the other 51 Billion is what its cost us so far faffing about, Buzzer.
The quicker they “pull the plug” and walk away the better it will be for the UK and also quicker for us to get underway to reclaim our Independence once more ! Those ■■■■■ in the EU are just steadily moving the goal posts in their own direction so I believe, and hope, that Teresa has seen the light finally and realises this fact. Those ■■■■■ at the EU are continuing to say that their 4 “cast in stone” objectives cannot be broken so why are our lot continuing to claim they will do a good deal. For a start we are saying free movement will stop but it is one of the 4 things the EU won’t accept ! So why keep up this ■■■■■■■ charade ! Should be “bye bye” wee’r gone !!! Bewick.
acd1202:
I am very much in favour of our leaving on WTO terms. There seems to be a panic regarding automotive and aircraft, both of which do OK under WTO, all planes both complete and components are 0% rated as are automotive components for manufacturing completed vehicles are rated but at lower levels than most bi-lateral agreements. It is true that tariffs would be applied to UK - EU trade but at generally low levels whilst in general the WTO tariffs on goods from outside the EU are much lower than the present EU levels. It’s easy to forget that the EU is massively protectionist towards the rest of the world, this carries a cost; so there are swings and roundabouts.
theguardian.com/business/20 … -wto-rules
“The increase in costs – equivalent to more than 10% per vehicle – would hit the average UK-built car if Britain falls back on World Trade Organisation rules after leaving the European Union.”
Why would any company investing in a future car plant saddle themselves with these costs? Why wouldnt they build/expand in a different EU country? The long term doesnt look good under WTO to me.
Swings and roundabouts associated with the EU, yes.
The Japanese car makers dont make large exports of vehicles from the EU to other regions, maybe because of this, but we are where we are. And if Japanese makers need a factory for the EU, surely it will be in the EU, not in a 10% dearer neighbour. I cant see them having a factory in the UK to export cars to anywhere else.
Honda in Gent (B) are already expanding their premises for such an event.
Buzzer:
If we face new border controls we can do like wise but stronger and maybe then we will put off cheap Eastern EU countries from wanting to come here as they have already decimated our International transport companies who cannot compete with there cheap rates coupled with the fact the EU don’t want to send there goods here for sale, result all round I would say also make the charge for entry to use our road network a more realistic £200 per visit and maybe that will put them off, Buzzer
Seems to me that leaving the Customs Union will make more controls and checks inevitable. Nothing vicious or malicious about it, simply ensuring duties are paid.
We could make those checks really awkward if we tried I suppose, but what would happen? Transport would be delayed, so all imports and exports would get dearer. Companies would try to cut costs more and use cheaper double manned EE outfits? Other companies would find it cheaper to use EU rather than UK companies? Expensive, slow transport kills work, takes away jobs and makes goods more expensive.
Customs delays cost us ALL dearly. Why increase the pain?
Charge foreign trucks more road tax in the UK? Maybe a good idea.
Why not just do the same as the French Germans etc and insist EE and other drivers coming here are paid the same as UK drivers? Allowed under EU rules but it seems our national UK gov are more concerned with profit for shareholders than looking after UK transport and drivers?
acd1202:
I am very much in favour of our leaving on WTO terms. There seems to be a panic regarding automotive and aircraft, both of which do OK under WTO, all planes both complete and components are 0% rated as are automotive components for manufacturing completed vehicles are rated but at lower levels than most bi-lateral agreements. It is true that tariffs would be applied to UK - EU trade but at generally low levels whilst in general the WTO tariffs on goods from outside the EU are much lower than the present EU levels. It’s easy to forget that the EU is massively protectionist towards the rest of the world, this carries a cost; so there are swings and roundabouts.
theguardian.com/business/20 … -wto-rules
“The increase in costs – equivalent to more than 10% per vehicle – would hit the average UK-built car if Britain falls back on World Trade Organisation rules after leaving the European Union.”
Why would any company investing in a future car plant saddle themselves with these costs? Why wouldnt they build/expand in a different EU country? The long term doesnt look good under WTO to me.
Swings and roundabouts associated with the EU, yes.
The Japanese car makers dont make large exports of vehicles from the EU to other regions, maybe because of this, but we are where we are. And if Japanese makers need a factory for the EU, surely it will be in the EU, not in a 10% dearer neighbour. I cant see them having a factory in the UK to export cars to anywhere else.
Honda in Gent (B) are already expanding their premises for such an event.
My brother is a senior regional manager within BMW UK and he’s been in several meetings since the announcement of Brexit regarding the supply and demand of BMW cars
The German government won’t allow anything to threaten German jobs that rely so much on the UK market
Franglais: theguardian.com/business/20 … -wto-rules
“The increase in costs – equivalent to more than 10% per vehicle – would hit the average UK-built car if Britain falls back on World Trade Organisation rules after leaving the European Union.”
Why would any company investing in a future car plant saddle themselves with these costs? Why wouldnt they build/expand in a different EU country? The long term doesnt look good under WTO to me.
Swings and roundabouts associated with the EU, yes.
The Japanese car makers dont make large exports of vehicles from the EU to other regions, maybe because of this, but we are where we are. And if Japanese makers need a factory for the EU, surely it will be in the EU, not in a 10% dearer neighbour. I cant see them having a factory in the UK to export cars to anywhere else.
Honda in Gent (B) are already expanding their premises for such an event.
We must stay in the EU because it’s supposedly good for domestic car manufacturing.When our automotive manufacturing industry has unarguably been decimated by the combination of European and Jap car and truck imports since 1973.While the EU wants to cut off its nose to spite its face,by imposing trade sanctions on a European trading partner,with which it has a trade surplus,for the crime of secession.While at the same time welcoming in non EU Japanese competition with open arms.These EU zb wits couldn’t make this zb up.
So we ditch the EU they put tariffs on UK exports.Great so we put equivalent tariffs on both EU and EU assembled Jap imports thereby giving domestic producers like JLR an in built advantage in the domestic market.In which case how is that bad for us being a sure way to massively reduce our trade deficit with the EU and if only we’d done that in 1973 instead of letting Heath take us into the EU zb pile and with it being ruled by zb’s like Juncker and Tusk among others.
gazsa401:
My brother is a senior regional manager within BMW UK and he’s been in several meetings since the announcement of Brexit regarding the supply and demand of BMW cars
The German government won’t allow anything to threaten German jobs that rely so much on the UK market
Did you read this ?.Even Stevie Wonder could see that this would be a good thing from the point of view of Brit jobs,by domestic manufacturing taking back the more valuable to them domestic market,from imports.As for German workers losing their jobs because their UK trade surplus gravy train,at the expense of Brit workers,has hit the buffers.I’d call that karma.
Spardo:
At last in several recent posts a little bit of sanity has arrived in this thread. It’s all very well banging on about trade tariffs against German cars for instance, but what are you going to drive when the manufacturers vote with their (highly removable) robots and decamp to the EU? Drive a Morgan? Very nice little cars indeed, but hardly the stuff that school runs are made of.
There are no British manufacturers left, only factories which may be priced right across the Channel. Want a Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Vauxhall, Jaguar, Land Rover, or even a Bentley or Rolls Royce. Then pay the tariff.
Or become like Cuba used to be, and maybe still is, drive and repair one of the old British bangers still serviceable, just as Cuba rebuilt and rebuilt again their 50’s Buicks and Pontiacs.
Jaguar for one is actually a British based manufacturer.So tell us how does us hitting the Germans with import tariffs supposedly affect the price of Jaguars sold here or in JLR’s other important US export market ?.As opposed to actually helping Jaguar to take more sales from the Germans in the domestic market than the relatively far fewer that it loses in the EU market.Ain’t Germany having a massive trade surplus with us and us an equally massive deficit with the EU a ■■■■■ ( for your Kraut mates ) in that situation assuming that you can do basic maths.
As for the Cuba scenario obviously not in view of the above.While it’s so much better to go with trying to sustain an unsustainable trade deficit and imposing austerity at home to pay for that and the costs of our EU membership let alone being told what to do by the unelected Eurocrats who run the stinking Federal zb pile.
Carryfast, how can you say that the British motor industry has been ‘decimated’ by imports? My recollection is that the British motor industry pretty much decimated itself, back in the 1970’s.
Currently, with the international investment that has been made, the British motor industry is producing more cars than ever, with healthy export figures too.
It could be argued that foriegn investment has in fact saved the industry - so why would you choose to start a trade war with these investors!
kmills:
Carryfast, how can you say that the British motor industry has been ‘decimated’ by imports? My recollection is that the British motor industry pretty much decimated itself, back in the 1970’s.
Currently, with the international investment that has been made, the British motor industry is producing more cars than ever, with healthy export figures too.
It could be argued that foriegn investment has in fact saved the industry - so why would you choose to start a trade war with these investors!
Exactly.
But in CarryFast post Brexit UK the unemployed ex Honda and Nissan workers would buy luxury jags and Range Rovers rather than their current small EU made Fords and Vauxhalls!
Edit. Asumming Tata owned Jag/LR stays in the UK…
Some of the problem with the vote is we had Farage and Rees-Mogg (never been in political power, never had a chance to fail) promising a bright future. Again untried and untested.
Against?
Remain:
“Well it’s been a bit crap, (we’ve all seen the bad bits!) but the EU is probably better than the alternative”. And that’s spoken by those who have actually been in power and have had years to rack up some (forgotten) successes and (well remembered) failures.
Woops, sorry David if I have that wrong, I was told by someone who worked in that department fo many years but to be fare it was a while ago.
Off the top of your head can you name a few of these 16 countries as I would dearly love to put her right, cheers, Harvey
[/quote
Hi Harvey,
Israel,Barbados,Turkey,Jamaica,Philippines to name 5,all listed on the Gov Pension site.
David[/quote]
Thank you David, made my day. Just goes to show you cant believe all you are told eh! Harvey
HRS:
Woops, sorry David if I have that wrong, I was told by someone who worked in that department fo many years but to be fare it was a while ago.
Off the top of your head can you name a few of these 16 countries as I would dearly love to put her right, cheers, Harvey
[/quote
Hi Harvey,
Israel,Barbados,Turkey,Jamaica,Philippines to name 5,all listed on the Gov Pension site.
David
And the USA I believe.
And as Kmills and Franglais have alrady pointed out to CF, Jaguars may be made in Britain but are an Indian company who sell a very large proportion of their product to the EU. They may well decide that it is better to build them here and sacrifice a few British sales rather than move the robots to one of 27 other countries and carry on as before. I think the Union may trump the Kingdom. (Sorry, couldn’t avoid the T word )
CF and others are fond of branding as traitors and deserters those of us with an alternative view to theirs, but this quote in another forum was very apt and decribes the feeling of many of us accurately:
If it’s a “No Deal” scenario it will be like watching the curtains drawing closed at the crematorium when one finally says goodbye to a loved one.
Spardo:
CF and others are fond of branding as traitors and deserters those of us with an alternative view to theirs, but this quote in another forum was very apt and decribes the feeling of many of us accurately:
If it’s a “No Deal” scenario it will be like watching the curtains drawing closed at the crematorium when one finally says goodbye to a loved one.
How anyone could describe the evil empire that is the EU as a ‘loved one’ defies belief. As the curtains close, there will be no weeping. To continue your analogy, when they open again and a new dawn shines through, other countries will also see the light and the whole corrupt, nasty facade will crumble. That is why Juncker, Barnier and Verhofstadt et al are being impossible. They wish to make it hard ‘pour decourager les autres’.
Watch this video about the Irish border question, which shows the smiling, ridiculous, Verhofstadt backing and filling over this whole invented ‘problem’. His body language alone shows that he know his position is untenable.
I read something yesterday about the problems that will be caused on food imports and someone had received the ‘intelligence’ that trucks will be waved through without any checking, to avoid massive build ups, as though that is a bad thing. That’s exactly what happens now, surely?
Spardo:
CF and others are fond of branding as traitors and deserters those of us with an alternative view to theirs, but this quote in another forum was very apt and decribes the feeling of many of us accurately:
If it’s a “No Deal” scenario it will be like watching the curtains drawing closed at the crematorium when one finally says goodbye to a loved one.
How anyone could describe the evil empire that is the EU as a ‘loved one’ defies belief. As the curtains close, there will be no weeping. To continue your analogy, when they open again and a new dawn shines through, other countries will also see the light and the whole corrupt, nasty facade will crumble. That is why Juncker, Barnier and Verhofstadt et al are being impossible. They wish to make it hard ‘pour decourager les autres’.
Watch this video about the Irish border question, which shows the smiling, ridiculous, Verhofstadt backing and filling over this whole invented ‘problem’. His body language alone shows that he know his position is untenable.
I read something yesterday about the problems that will be caused on food imports and someone had received the ‘intelligence’ that trucks will be waved through without any checking, to avoid massive build ups, as though that is a bad thing. That’s exactly what happens now, surely?
John.
“What’s your load driver?”
“Foodstuffs mate”.
“Not goods that need duty paid then? Off you go, I won’t delay you by checking”.
kmills:
Carryfast, how can you say that the British motor industry has been ‘decimated’ by imports? My recollection is that the British motor industry pretty much decimated itself, back in the 1970’s.
Currently, with the international investment that has been made, the British motor industry is producing more cars than ever, with healthy export figures too.
It could be argued that foriegn investment has in fact saved the industry - so why would you choose to start a trade war with these investors!
Who said anything about us starting a trade war.When it’s the EU that’s imposing the blackmail of sovereignty and contribution kick backs for trade.
As for foreign investment saving the motor industry that would depend on if you think that turning us from a manufacturer from forge to finished product to an assembler of imported components,with the resulting ‘decimation’ of all the supporting industries,fits the definition of ‘saved’.As for the quality of 1970’s products the survival rates of 1970’s Jaguar Rover Triumph products v their contemporary BMW or even Merc competiton for example suggests that their quality was actually second to none.IE good luck with finding a BMW 3.0 Si now as opposed to an XJ6/12,Rover P6,or Triumph 2.5.
Notwithstanding any of that feel free to explain how us importing far more from the EU than the combined amounts of what we export to them and sell at home and paying a fortune and being ruled by unelected zb’s like Juncker and the EU politburo for the privilege,is supposedly good for us.
“What’s your load driver?”
“Foodstuffs mate”.
“Not goods that need duty paid then? Off you go, I won’t delay you by checking”.
[/quote] Lonnie had it right, back in '61, the era some on here want to drag the whole country back to.
Nice to hear Raab say that without a trade deal there is no way the EU spongers are getting the 39billion they are expecting the UK to pay,perhaps the British Bulldog, is at last showing its teeth!
Franglais:
But in CarryFast post Brexit UK the unemployed ex Honda and Nissan workers would buy luxury jags and Range Rovers rather than their current small EU made Fords and Vauxhalls!
Edit. Asumming Tata owned Jag/LR stays in the UK…
So let’s get this right the remainers case rests on telling us that we can’t trade with the EU as a non EU member state.But doing whatever it takes to and who can best attract Japanese assembly operations to get round EU import duties,at the expense of European car manufacturers’ market share,is the end game of EU trade policy.
So tell us why would Nissan want to risk its established UK market share by subjecting itself to UK import duties,just to maintain its more or less equal EU sales.Let alone JLR wanting to subject its far greater amount of UK sales to UK import duties just to maintain its far lower EU market share.Remainers all seem to have a problem with basic maths or more like want to have a problem with it when it suits them.
As for EU made Ford and Vauxhalls.It seems strange how our domestic car manufacturing industry supposedly hasn’t been decimated by EU membership.But then suddenly GM’s and Ford’s transfer of industry from UK to Europe is then actually confirmed when it suits your argument.Or for that matter Nissan workers obviously prefer not to buy their own Jap crap products.
As for buying a Jag instead of a Ford or ‘Vauxhall’ ( more like a zb Peugeot now with a Vauxhall badge ).XE from £31,000,F Pace from £36,000 while all Ford and ‘Vauxhall’ prices are obviously subject to 10% duty on the price and shipping costs + VAT on that not to mention more depreciation costs which is what matters in the case of lease purchase type deals.
The truth is hitting EU imports would be advantageous to us and if anything would bring back much of our lost industry not lose more of it.IE it’s bleedin obvious that the status quo of paying a fortune and being ruled by zb’s like Juncker,for the privilege of our unsustainable trade deficit with the EU,means that we’ve got nothing to lose by leaving and everything to gain.
