I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find
Any mentio of guaranteed weekly hours , just daily , maybe poor old
Windsor is in same boat
dozy:
I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find Any mention of guaranteed weekly hours , just daily
But by your own admission your payroll is done by Stobarts 3rd party pseudo pay company. So don’t be surprised IF you suddenly find out you can’t get furloughed because of this
Read your contract. If it doesn’t say you’re guaranteed a number of hours then it’s unlikely that you are eligible. Are you on with Logistics People?
peirre:
dozy:
I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find Any mention of guaranteed weekly hours , just dailyBut by your own admission your payroll is done by Stobarts 3rd party pseudo pay company. So don’t be surprised IF you suddenly find out you can’t get furloughed because of this
I’m going off this agency lark , bucket loads of money + hols when you want are good , but
Not a lot else to recommend it
I’m down to work for next four weeks upto my
2 week hol so probably wouldn’t of got
Furloughed anyway , but if I’d been put on
It & not paid that would be the final
Straw for me
peirre:
dozy:
I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find Any mention of guaranteed weekly hours , just dailyBut by your own admission your payroll is done by Stobarts 3rd party pseudo pay company. So don’t be surprised IF you suddenly find out you can’t get furloughed because of this
Ezy Solutions is the umbrella payroll company of Logistics People, and I guarantee they will not pay any furlough, and dozy will have no contract with them.
They only “guarantee” a minimum hours per shift, usually 6, on an ongoing basis as they book you through the joined up app.
They will move heaven and earth to get out of paying the 6 hours if they can, not a chance they will be paying anyone to sit at home
R420:
Bu you still continue to ignore his question on what your employment status is and what your terms say. Until you post them then no-one can help you. I suspect like the vast majority of agency drivers you’re not entitled to any furlough pay.
OK, let’s try again: According to the gov link, Zero Hours workers agency workers, even those on umbrella - are entitled to furlough pay if the agency has no work for them.
I am still employed ZHC by the same agency. I’ve yet to be officially let go, as I suspect it would affect the agency’s own private claim to any 80% grant monies from the government, nothing to do with the client firm(s) that no longer have any work overall for that agency employee, in this case, - myself.
The DWP are presumably going to ask themselves for my work status in due course, and if I’ve received no money by that point, the DWP are likely to declare me as “Unemployed” rather than “Furloughed”, which would then have the knock-on effect of voiding any claim for the 80% grant-back by the same agency, as they’ve side-stepped Furloughment AND tried to avoid disqualifying themselves from getting any future grant from the government by (arguably) “constructively dismissing a worker” by paying them zero until they panic, and resign… Thing is, there’s nowhere to panic and resign TO right now - is there?
Sure, I’ve made some job applications, but for the most part - Interviews are suspended for the duration because of the lockdown. That leaves just other agencies, and I’m led to believe that all other agencies are currently in the same boat, ducking and diving to get their sudden over-supply of drivers to fight among themselves in a grand race to the bottom… Two shifts between 86 drivers? - Offered at NMW only, but still they queue… Oh dear! That might be remotely feasible IF the work was on my doorstep - but it ain’t, and that’s assuming I’d be “lucky” enough to be the two out of 86 drivers getting a shift in these examples, just one measly shift per week to give myself some paid stamp each week for the duration…
So my two choices appear to be either
(a) Get some furloughment pay before I have to explain why I’ve had no work this month to date
OR
(b) Accept the fact that I’ve been “Shadow Sacked” already, and report the agency to the DWP to ensure that no grant will ever be paid, because they’ve constructively dismissed people… This would then unlock the Universal Credit option for myself and my family where our joint incomes are entirely zero already by this point.
Obviously, if it ends up being (b) I can’t see the agency lasting the year out, what with the firm already having a dreadful set of financial figures last year, apparently… FFS if they can’t make money in the boom market of a year ago - what chance have they got without these forthcoming grants? They only need cashflow the furloughment money in order to get the forthcoming 80% rebate, and as I read on the above links “There’s no limit how long a company can get this grant for”… It doesn’t cut off at three months, but presumably won’t be payable AS a grant unless the furloughment wages to multiple agency staff like myself - are fully in place at the 3 month point from the end of march, i.e. “By the end of June”.
That would mean that the firm needs to at least “send a letter of promise” that these payments will be made, backdated to what? March 1st (for some) March 29th (for me) - to cover them until the system is fully up and running “by the end of June”… With such a letter, the UC would be undoubtedly “temporary” and the agency would be bending over backwards to get me back to work “the moment I qualify for paid furloughment”… There’d be no pressure on them to do anything at all otherwise, and I’d just be left to stew for three months on no money.
Last time a firm did something like that to me, I sued, for 10 months loss of earnings, and was awarded £14,000 which was actually less than I’d lost over the period. Better than a kick in the nuts I suppose, and more than one manager was fired over it… The case costs me nothing to bring, thanks to a change in the law as follows, which of course happened some time back, and permitted totally skinto plaintiffs to bring cases against malignant employers not living upto their financial obligations…
Got that everyone? 
R420:
Read your contract. If it doesn’t say you’re guaranteed a number of hours then it’s unlikely that you are eligible. Are you on with Logistics People?
Yes lp, mine says guaranteed 9 hrs per day , but I can’t see anything about weekly ,
It doesn’t look like it ( furloughing ) will happen , as down for next 4 weeks work on
Joined up , then 2 weeks hol , takes me upto mid may , but
We shall see
I’ve had enough of travelling 50 miles to work & 50 home on Friday they can be a nightmare , money’s ok , like hols when I want
But deducting money from wage to pay hol pay , no sick pay , paying dpc etc etc isn’t good
And I hate being away
idrive:
peirre:
dozy:
I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find Any mention of guaranteed weekly hours , just dailyBut by your own admission your payroll is done by Stobarts 3rd party pseudo pay company. So don’t be surprised IF you suddenly find out you can’t get furloughed because of this
Ezy Solutions is the umbrella payroll company of Logistics People, and I guarantee they will not pay any furlough, and dozy will have no contract with them.
They only “guarantee” a minimum hours per shift, usually 6, on an ongoing basis as they book you through the joined up app.
They will move heaven and earth to get out of paying the 6 hours if they can, not a chance they will be paying anyone to sit at home
…Exactly - but these firms still want to try and swing the 80% grants… Not on Guv! You don’t get the handout unless you play this straight…
Pay 80% of the workers average wage first and then claim ALL of that back - thus having a bod sit at home for FREE as far as the agency is concerned, as the government are bankrolling the furloughment with the grant money provided…
Attempting to claim the 80% with no intention of passing it onto ALL agency staff at the moment that “no work for anyone” kicks in - is FRAUD but, of course - will not be followed up upon by our legal establishment until and unless all this lockdown blows over, and things get back to normal…
(From the gov.uk website)
" How your monthly earnings are calculated
If you’ve been employed (or engaged by an employment business in the case of agency workers) for a full year, employers will claim for the higher of either:
the amount you earned in the same month last year
an average of your monthly earnings from the last year
If you’ve been employed for less than a year, employers will claim for an average of your regular monthly wages since you started work. The same arrangements apply if your monthly pay varies such as if you are on a zero-hour contract.
If you started work in February 2020, your employer will pro-rata your earnings from that month.
The grant paid to your employer will be calculated based on your regular, contractual pay, such as wages, compulsory commission and past overtime. The calculation will not include discretionary commission (including tips) payments or bonuses, non-cash payments or benefits in kind. "
Edit: That’s This page if anyone wants to read the small print…
Winseer:
R420:
Bu you still continue to ignore his question on what your employment status is and what your terms say. Until you post them then no-one can help you. I suspect like the vast majority of agency drivers you’re not entitled to any furlough pay.https://www.businessleader.co.uk/what-is-furlough-leave-and-what-do-businesses-need-to-know/81513/
[Withdrawn] Check if your employer can use the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK[/url
OK, let’s try again: According to the gov link, Zero Hours workers agency workers, even those on umbrella - are entitled to furlough pay if the agency has no work for them.
I am still employed ZHC by the same agency. I’ve yet to be officially let go, as I suspect it would affect the agency’s own private claim to any 80% grant monies from the government, nothing to do with the client firm(s) that no longer have any work overall for that agency employee, in this case, - myself.
The DWP are presumably going to ask themselves for my work status in due course, and if I’ve received no money by that point, the DWP are likely to declare me as “Unemployed” rather than “Furloughed”, which would then have the knock-on effect of voiding any claim for the 80% grant-back by the same agency, as they’ve side-stepped Furloughment AND tried to avoid disqualifying themselves from getting any future grant from the government by (arguably) “constructively dismissing a worker” by paying them zero until they panic, and resign… Thing is, there’s nowhere to panic and resign TO right now - is there?
Sure, I’ve made some job applications, but for the most part - Interviews are suspended for the duration because of the lockdown. That leaves just other agencies, and I’m led to believe that all other agencies are currently in the same boat, ducking and diving to get their sudden over-supply of drivers to fight among themselves in a grand race to the bottom… Two shifts between 86 drivers? - Offered at NMW only, but still they queue… Oh dear! That might be remotely feasible IF the work was on my doorstep - but it ain’t, and that’s assuming I’d be “lucky” enough to be the two out of 86 drivers getting a shift in these examples, just one measly shift per week to give myself some paid stamp each week for the duration…So my two choices appear to be either
(a) Get some furloughment pay before I have to explain why I’ve had no work this month to date
OR
(b) Accept the fact that I’ve been “Shadow Sacked” already, and report the agency to the DWP to ensure that no grant will ever be paid, because they’ve constructively dismissed people… This would then unlock the Universal Credit option for myself and my family where our joint incomes are entirely zero already by this point.Obviously, if it ends up being (b) I can’t see the agency lasting the year out, what with the firm already having a dreadful set of financial figures last year, apparently… FFS if they can’t make money in the boom market of a year ago - what chance have they got without these forthcoming grants? They only need cashflow the furloughment money in order to get the forthcoming 80% rebate, and as I read on the above links “There’s no limit how long a company can get this grant for”… It doesn’t cut off at three months, but presumably won’t be payable AS a grant unless the furloughment wages to multiple agency staff like myself - are fully in place at the 3 month point from the end of march, i.e. “By the end of June”.
That would mean that the firm needs to at least “send a letter of promise” that these payments will be made, backdated to what? March 1st (for some) March 29th (for me) - to cover them until the system is fully up and running “by the end of June”… With such a letter, the UC would be undoubtedly “temporary” and the agency would be bending over backwards to get me back to work “the moment I qualify for paid furloughment”… There’d be no pressure on them to do anything at all otherwise, and I’d just be left to stew for three months on no money.
Last time a firm did something like that to me, I sued, for 10 months loss of earnings, and was awarded £14,000 which was actually less than I’d lost over the period. Better than a kick in the nuts I suppose, and more than one manager was fired over it… The case costs me nothing to bring, thanks to a change in the law as follows, which of course happened some time back, and permitted totally skinto plaintiffs to bring cases against malignant employers not living upto their financial obligations…
https://www.farleys.com/employment-tribunal-fees-overturned-supreme-court/
Employment tribunal fees unlawful, Supreme Court rules - BBC NewsGot that everyone?
[/quote]
I’d just leave if my agency furloughed me without pay ,■■■■ would I they
Have me hanging around while there not paying me
I doubt there’s much out there at present , but it’s just
The principle , they’d be just using you as and when they want
I’m ok while I’ve got work , but I’m gone if they laid me off
Without pay , think there jobs going on
Bins in gratham , don’t fancy it , but in
The case of laid off without pay I will
Best of luck Windsor with your quest , but I
Shall take a different route , out the ■■■■■■■ door
For good
Nb when I worked in engineering they laid off a load of workers , the arrogant boss
Thought they’d sit there on no pay & troop back through the door when it suited him
They didn’t come back , those were the days
You’re talking rubbish. How will it be a fraud? HMRC will instantly see from the lack of NIC against the employee that it’s a fradulent claim if they tried to do that - and they’ll be watching for it. I highly doubt they’d even consider it (let alone actually do it) as they’ll know the fines that would come as a result would ■■■■■■■ them, not to mention the requirement to pay back all the money they’d fradulently received.
Enough with the conspiracy theories. You’ve said you’re on a ZHC so that means you’re entitled to nothing - same as virtually every other agency driver.
idrive:
peirre:
dozy:
I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find Any mention of guaranteed weekly hours , just dailyBut by your own admission your payroll is done by Stobarts 3rd party pseudo pay company. So don’t be surprised IF you suddenly find out you can’t get furloughed because of this
Ezy Solutions is the umbrella payroll company of Logistics People, and I guarantee they will not pay any furlough, and dozy will have no contract with them.
They only “guarantee” a minimum hours per shift, usually 6, on an ongoing basis as they book you through the joined up app.
They will move heaven and earth to get out of paying the 6 hours if they can, not a chance they will be paying anyone to sit at home
I’m gaurateed 9 hrs per day , I can’t find anything on any paper work I have of any
Guaranteed hrs pw , but if you look at there web page , job , nationwide driver , guaranteed 45 hrs , Doncaster hg1 driver , guaranteed 45 hrs
All remember them saying I’d be guaranteed work as I’m
Fte ( full time employed ) , even though I’m not a employed driver I’m a agency driver
Ill just leave if they furloughed me unpaid , but I’d be interested to see what someone in
The know made of all this
R420:
You’re talking rubbish. How will it be a fraud? HMRC will instantly see from the lack of NIC against the employee that it’s a fradulent claim if they tried to do that - and they’ll be watching for it. I highly doubt they’d even consider it (let alone actually do it) as they’ll know the fines that would come as a result would ■■■■■■■ them, not to mention the requirement to pay back all the money they’d fradulently received.Enough with the conspiracy theories. You’ve said you’re on a ZHC so that means you’re entitled to nothing - same as virtually every other agency driver.
That’s why they hope that people like myself will resign a few weeks into receiving no pay, and realizing that NICs are no longer being paid on their behalf… I suspect it’ll be week five by the time HMRC notice anything amiss however, as they might consider that I’ve moved from weekly pay to monthly pay meanwhile… The second week of May is the critical bit then, bank holiday and all that… With the Easter weekend coming up and “no work” Still across this period when less people typically want to work, leaving more shifts unallocated for me to pick up (normally) will be the final clincher that there’s not going to be a single shift for me rather longer term than merely 3 weeks (minimum furloughment time…)
I’ve already posted the link where it clearly says a ZHC worker is entitled to an average of 80% of their average pay over the past 12 months, - if they’ve done more than a year, which I have.
That amount - would suit be fine and dandy, as we’re talking about north of 400 bar for “sitting at home” since they simply have no work for me, ongoingly.
It is not a conspiracy theory that I’ve had no further communication from the agency (blanking me…) and I’ve received my last pay slip (until I get more work/furlough pay in lieu of work) THIS week.
The “Fraud” would be trying to get rid of me for no pay for the rest of my employ, whilst claiming in full the 80% for those other drivers that may well have been stood down on no pay as well, but decided to take another job/were fortunate enough to get offered another job without an intereview meanwhile… “One less mouth to feed” and “full grant coming, as we didn’t actually sack anyone ourselves”.
Making a false representation to obtain financial gain is “Fraud”.
Those firms making a claim for the 80% cashback on furloughed wages on their payroll - are expected to actually pay those wages out FIRST, rather than reduce their company overdraft facility with that same money, and hope everyone jumps ship for free meanwhile… Fraud Fraud Fraud. You’ve claimed for something that you didn’t pass on to those that actually entitled you to that grant in the first place (like claiming pension for your dead gran) Fraud. You blanked staff hoping they’d jump ship relieving you of any liability. Legal Subterfuge. You routinely lied to staff to mislead them every step of the way. Legal Subterfuge.
If a firm acts fraudulantly on two counts, immorally on two other accounts - then a fitting punishment would be to make an example of such people, just like we’d all like to see shysters like Mike Ashley punished for “not putting enough back” becoming a millionaire on abusive forms of ZHC like he does… Gotta get them on the fraudulent stuff rather than the legal escape hatches of “Subterfuge” though eh?
dozy:
I’m gaurateed 9 hrs per day , I can’t find anything on any paper work I have of any
Guaranteed hrs pw , but if you look at there web page , job , nationwide driver , guaranteed 45 hrs , Doncaster hg1 driver , guaranteed 45 hrs
All remember them saying I’d be guaranteed work as I’m
Fte ( full time employed ) , even though I’m not a employed driver I’m a agency driver
Ill just leave if they furloughed me unpaid , but I’d be interested to see what someone in
The know made of all this
Just out of interest is your name Adey? I note you were at Hackney and Park Royal yesterday and Tesco Livingstone today.
dozy:
idrive:
peirre:
dozy:
I’m agency , paye , guaranteed 9 hrs per day , so would I be entitled to it , I can’t find Any mention of guaranteed weekly hours , just dailyBut by your own admission your payroll is done by Stobarts 3rd party pseudo pay company. So don’t be surprised IF you suddenly find out you can’t get furloughed because of this
Ezy Solutions is the umbrella payroll company of Logistics People, and I guarantee they will not pay any furlough, and dozy will have no contract with them.
They only “guarantee” a minimum hours per shift, usually 6, on an ongoing basis as they book you through the joined up app.
They will move heaven and earth to get out of paying the 6 hours if they can, not a chance they will be paying anyone to sit at homeI’m gaurateed 9 hrs per day , I can’t find anything on any paper work I have of any
Guaranteed hrs pw , but if you look at there web page , job , nationwide driver , guaranteed 45 hrs , Doncaster hg1 driver , guaranteed 45 hrs
All remember them saying I’d be guaranteed work as I’m
Fte ( full time employed ) , even though I’m not a employed driver I’m a agency driver
Ill just leave if they furloughed me unpaid , but I’d be interested to see what someone in
The know made of all this
Dozy mate there is a difference between being a full time employee, and being kept busy full time.
You will be on a zero hours contract with LP and receive none of the benefits of actual employees apart from your rolled up holiday pay, further proof of their shark status.
dozy:
I’m gaurateed 9 hrs per day
My contract (like the majority of other agency contracts) states that I am guaranteed a minimum of 8hrs pay, even if I only work 6hrs. So your 9hrs per day is just that, your guaranteed a minimum of 9hrs pay just for turning up. If you don’t have a Swedish Derogation clause in your contract you won’t be getting furloughed as EZ solutions are your umbrellas company.
Btw way back when you went back to Stobarts via LP and you signed up with EZ solutions several people inc myself stated that it was a bad idea and you should not go down that route but you did it anyway, now it’s gonna bite you in the ■■■.
So I’ll suggest that you stock up on oranges and pot noodles and crack on Drive…
I spoke to my agency and they have said they have looked into furlough, and they will be going down that route as work has stopped and no alternative work is available. However, they cannot access the portal until the end of April. Whether they are hoping the lockdown will be lifted by then so they don’t have to go down the furlough route, or its genuine, I don’t know, guess ill find out in 3 weeks. Supermarkets no longer need temp staff, so its cutting back on outgoings for now, no work no money.
They’re talking BS, This is my 2nd week of agency furlough.
If work has stopped and you meet the criteria to be furloughed & both parties agree then they can put you on it ASAP
It is the government that are defining the ability of ZHC workers to claim 80% of their average earnings for “getting no work on agency, ongoingly”…
Come on folks - EVERYONE knows that up until now - agencies would routinely over-recruit people, and then have no obligations whatsoever when the work dried up, such as is common in the period January-March each year - up until 2018 at least…
The new legislation clearly points out that workers on ZHC being given no further work for a prolonged period (minimum three weeks…) should (not must) pay furloughment pay. There is no legal imperative to pay any to anyone, including full timers…
BUT… There is a Moral Hazard involved:
If the agency can keep on as many drivers as possible on zero pay for this prolonged period, and only let go the ones who actually resign of their own accord…
…The agency can then put in a claim for those lucky few drivers who got stood down for perhaps the first couple of weeks only, then got enough work to make a claim-back worth-while…
Thus, for instance - if a driver DID start to qualify for Paid Furloughment - the agency would basically make damned sure that the next vacant shift going - went to that driver - wouldn’t they?
Then they could claim back the 80% of the wages actually paid for that shift actually worked!
At no point are they ever going to countenence paying 80% average past earnings for sitting at home because the agency couldn’t provide them with any work, which is at least their own stupid fault for having too many drivers on their books…
Thus, they drive a coach and horses through the legislation and guidelines, expecting as many drivers as possible to be kept up in the air for weeks and months on zero pay - hoping that they leave of their own accord, and jump at the chance to do NMW shifts when the work picks back up again…
Double-edged abuse?
The client firms - are not going to behave much better. I predict it is going to be VERY hard to keep one’s full time job at their establishments from here on…
"We’d like you to work some unpaid overtime each and every week from now on… If you don’t want to, could you please move aside for someone else who’s more keen than you are in these hard times we have in front of us. " - and we get a fresh reboot of “Austerity Decade” all over again… 
Boris and the Tories won’t be to blame though - Boris is laid up in Hospital, and the Tories have already put £300billion on the table, of which the lion’s share is going to be intercepted by the Companies “keeping people on” and the banks of those companies…
Very little will end up being paid to staff who’ve had their entire livlihood stripped away, and the ones who’ll end up worst off of all - will be those who trusted what their employers told them - only for it to be a pack of lies, and ending up with no money, no help getting another job, and debts mounting up that banks will ensure MUST be paid…
These Banks and Firms - need to be STOPPED from the “Moral Hazard” now tempting them to take us back to the 1930’s now.
…But Boris is in Hospital, and we are still in Lockdown…
In the 1930’s - if you wanted and got a job, - it was likely working for a Gangster.
In the 2020’s - if you want and got a job - you’ll likely be working for a BANKster, or one of their affilated firms…
"You must pay your debts sonny… Tell you what… Government have already abolished driver hour limits, so we’ll let you work 120 hour weeks at NMW to pay your debts off… Furlough Pay? - Nope, we’re not obliged to let our firms pay that on threat of withdrawal of llquidity if they do. They’ll do what we bankers say… the agencies will do what their client customer says, keeping everyone in the dark, and no one will do what the government says - unless it is “make the rich richer and the poor poorer”. At the next election, the Tories will carry the can for us, and by the time the next Hitler comes along to put us in our place - we’ll have moved on, snuffed it of natural causes rather than coronavirus, or shouldered the blame over to the most common race/nationality/religion evident among our Bank employees - just like LAST time !! "
robbiepete:
I spoke to my agency……
However, they cannot access the portal until the end of April.
LOL ! 