If a driver puts in his holidays, then the firm decide to put him on furlough instead (presumably to save paying holiday out of their funds) are they obliged to tell him this?
Is it not the case legally (not to mention ethically) to inform him, therefore letting him keep his holiday allowance for those days, rather than make him think those days are holidays, and
therefore using his allowance, but in reality they are actually furlough payments.
On other hand if they do tell you you have been on furlough for that period, is that legal ie… to put you on furlough for those days,.and you use/lose those days.
Just intersted/curious btw.
Totally legal, it’s not just to to save on the holiday pay, but also they get your holiday entitlement used up whilst it’s quiet so you’re free to work when the firm is busy again without the hassle of agency men or the truck being stood when volumes are up.
Well unless they put him on furlough for at least 3 weeks they won’t get their money back from the government unless they’re fraudulently claiming.
When you get put on furlough you get 80% of your normal wage up to a maximum of £2500 a month, less tax and NI so I would think he’d notice. Usually a company will give you a letter to say you’re on furlough outlining your responsibilities, they’d definitely tell you. I don’t know anyone who has been put on furlough who has not been told and this is everyone working for a small family company, a mate who is self employed with two staff who furloughed his to a brother who works for the council.
But as I said furlough has to be done in blocks of 3 week periods. I got put on furlough at the beginning of the first lockdown and the agency sent me a letter stating I was on furlough and my responsibilities whilst I was. That lasted 4 days before I got brought back in when HJ unexpectedly started going again and used core agency drivers for the bit of work they had so they could keep their own furloughed. I’d mentioned the three week thing which they knew about and they brought me back knowing that it would cost them money.
It all sounds rather suspect and I’m not sure if someone has got the wrong end of the stick or there’s dodginess going on. If it’s dodginess then HMRC is likely to catch up with them at some point as it appears HMRC are going to be starting a witchhunt to reclaim the estimated £4Bn of fraudulent claims for furlough and SEISS.
Ron jevis:
Totally legal, it’s not just to to save on the holiday pay, but also they get your holiday entitlement used up whilst it’s quiet so you’re free to work when the firm is busy again without the hassle of agency men or the truck being stood when volumes are up.
But if they’ve furloughed you they don’t save on holiday pay. You don’t use your holiday entitlement and you still accrue leave AT THE NORMAL FULL RATE whilst you’re furloughed. However an employer does have the legal right to tell you when to take your holidays as long as they give you notice of at least 2x the holiday period.
From an employer’s point of view an employer can’t furlough someone for a few days, a week or a fortnight and put in a claim for furlough to the government, it has to be at least 3 weeks. Any holiday being used does not count towards that 3 weeks. So whilst the employee may not be doing anything dodgy his employer would most definitely have to be.
Yes, you’re right, you have to have been on furlough previously and it is a 3 week block. But you can be on furlough and have holiday at the same time, you can be made to take holiday whilst on furlough. How well it does for driver relations is a different matter.
I’ve heard a few stories of this happening this year.
My view is if you have booked holiday and are then put on furlough (a grey area at present i think) then the driver keeps the booked holiday days and also accrues holiday for the time on furlough so all is good.
But yes I believe the driver should be informed of this prior to the holiday/furlough being taken.
Ron jevis:
Yes, you’re right, you have to have been on furlough previously and it is a 3 week block. But you can be on furlough and have holiday at the same time, you can be made to take holiday whilst on furlough.
You can but those days don’t count towards the 3 weeks and the employer cannot claim for them.
polytrotter:
My view is if you have booked holiday and are then put on furlough (a grey area at present i think) then the driver keeps the booked holiday days and also accrues holiday for the time on furlough so all is good.
It’s not a grey area, the legislation has been out for 9 months since the scheme started and it’s now well understood. What you’ve posted is bang on though, that’s exactly how it should be happening.
If a driver has holiday booked and is then put on furlough the employer can still make the employee take that time as holiday and class that holiday entitlement taken whilst the employee is furloughed. The employee still accrues holiday and pension entitlements whilst furloughed.
Also this is why I say (in my opinion) that its a grey area, not sure covid is affecting the business as it seems to be a normal Christmas period. [emoji2369][emoji2369]
My bad, it would appear its been changed. I looked on the archives and it was 3 weeks when it was originally introduced, it looks like they changed it when they extended it in November.
So yeah it’s not 3 weeks, they can now do it not even on a daily basis but for normal hours not worked. so if you normally do 8hrs a day and only now do 4 they can claim for the additional 4. But the rest of it’s right, that you’re either on furlough or using your annual leave, you can’t be on annual leave and the employer claim furlough for those days.
Your wrong Conor. The 3 week rule is now outdated. My wife is a beautician and gets furloughed for the days that she is quiet at work. Some times she will go in for 2 hours work then get furloughed for the rest of the day.
Back during the 1st furlough I was made to take holidays in line with government guidelines to save the government money. They (the company) have to give you written notice prior to the event, but they can do it, I kicked up a stink when it happened to me, but there was nothing I could do about it happening. However I don’t know if there’s been a change in the rules since then, I suspect that there hasn’t been.
Ron jevis:
Totally legal, it’s not just to to save on the holiday pay, but also they get your holiday entitlement used up whilst it’s quiet so you’re free to work when the firm is busy again without the hassle of agency men or the truck being stood when volumes are up.
How can it be legal to effectively use public cash to pay for a firm’s holiday entitlement responsibilities.Also who wants to be told that they have to use all their holidays in the winter subject to travel ban anyway.
Those on Furlough should be under the same conditions as those on Jobseekers allowance.The responsibility to look for work hasn’t been lifted for that and there are numerous job vacancies not subject to furlough.
Why the double standards effectively paying employers more for furloughed workers to sit at home with no responsibility to look for available work.
If anything lower paid Jobseekers should have their responsibility to look for work lifted and furloughed workers should be made to apply for those jobs instead on a temporary basis.
Yeah originally it wasn’t three week blocks as such, it had to be a minimum of three weeks initially, then it could be done week by week. I had four weeks of it, would’ve snapped their hands off for another three week block instead of the one odd week after the first three
Also right at the start there was no facility to take holiday on furlough so all holiday within that period wasn’t taken, if it was booked it was cancelled and given back to the employees allocation. Then as things went on to avoid loads of staff sitting on holiday allocation and having to cram it all in it was allowed to be allocated on furlough. It was at that point I booked every available day for the rest of the year so I lost no holiday and still had a bonus four weeks off. Cheers.
Conor:
Well unless they put him on furlough for at least 3 weeks they won’t get their money back from the government unless they’re fraudulently claiming.
When you get put on furlough you get 80% of your normal wage up to a maximum of £2500 a month, less tax and NI so I would think he’d notice. Usually a company will give you a letter to say you’re on furlough outlining your responsibilities, they’d definitely tell you. I don’t know anyone who has been put on furlough who has not been told and this is everyone working for a small family company, a mate who is self employed with two staff who furloughed his to a brother who works for the council.
But as I said furlough has to be done in blocks of 3 week periods. I got put on furlough at the beginning of the first lockdown and the agency sent me a letter stating I was on furlough and my responsibilities whilst I was. That lasted 4 days before I got brought back in when HJ unexpectedly started going again and used core agency drivers for the bit of work they had so they could keep their own furloughed. I’d mentioned the three week thing which they knew about and they brought me back knowing that it would cost them money.
It all sounds rather suspect and I’m not sure if someone has got the wrong end of the stick or there’s dodginess going on. If it’s dodginess then HMRC is likely to catch up with them at some point as it appears HMRC are going to be starting a witchhunt to reclaim the estimated £4Bn of fraudulent claims for furlough and SEISS.
That 3 week thing seems to be a bit different now though…
.GOV:
Employers can furlough employees for any amount of time and any work pattern, while still being able to claim the grant for the hours not worked.
Conor:
Well unless they put him on furlough for at least 3 weeks they won’t get their money back from the government unless they’re fraudulently claiming.
When you get put on furlough you get 80% of your normal wage up to a maximum of £2500 a month, less tax and NI so I would think he’d notice. Usually a company will give you a letter to say you’re on furlough outlining your responsibilities, they’d definitely tell you. I don’t know anyone who has been put on furlough who has not been told and this is everyone working for a small family company, a mate who is self employed with two staff who furloughed his to a brother who works for the council.
But as I said furlough has to be done in blocks of 3 week periods. I got put on furlough at the beginning of the first lockdown and the agency sent me a letter stating I was on furlough and my responsibilities whilst I was. That lasted 4 days before I got brought back in when HJ unexpectedly started going again and used core agency drivers for the bit of work they had so they could keep their own furloughed. I’d mentioned the three week thing which they knew about and they brought me back knowing that it would cost them money.
It all sounds rather suspect and I’m not sure if someone has got the wrong end of the stick or there’s dodginess going on. If it’s dodginess then HMRC is likely to catch up with them at some point as it appears HMRC are going to be starting a witchhunt to reclaim the estimated £4Bn of fraudulent claims for furlough and SEISS.
That 3 week thing seems to be a bit different now though…
.GOV:
Employers can furlough employees for any amount of time and any work pattern, while still being able to claim the grant for the hours not worked.
Yes as I mentioned earlier… my missus goes into work and if she has 2 customers in for the first two hours she will do them then go home on furlough pay for the rest of the day. Its in effect free money!
msgyorkie:
Your wrong Conor. The 3 week rule is now outdated. My wife is a beautician and gets furloughed for the days that she is quiet at work. Some times she will go in for 2 hours work then get furloughed for the rest of the day.
Yes I realise it’s changed, I posted that very summary in the very message above yours.
