Agency Drivers Furlough

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

peirre:
They’re talking BS, This is my 2nd week of agency furlough.
If work has stopped and you meet the criteria to be furloughed & both parties agree then they can put you on it ASAP

This is my 2nd week too… I’m still employed by the agency (No dismissal in writing nor P45 come), and they don’t even speak to me, send me messages on their own on-line system… I had a phonecall to tell me that “my services are no longer required” - and that’s it.

I got a small payslip this week with a single shift worked 29th March (my last shift I worked) on it.

Unless the furlough pay - ANY pay at all - kicks in by next Friday - I’m going to be on zero pay, no stamp paid, and no payslip even with zero on it, I suspect…
I might have some residual holiday pay, but once again - that’s not “fresh earnings” - it is what one might normally expected when “Moving on” from a firm, rather than the last sniff of cash for several weeks/months to come… HMRC/DWP - will probably not realize what is going on to millions I suspect in this country - until the second week of May…
Woe betide these outfits if the lockdown is over by then, but the betting is that it will be at least until the end of July right now, so the “Gamble” our firms and banks are taking is "We can do anything we want until the end of July, and by the time we get chased for the missing money by DWP/HMRC - we’ll have been paid at the end of June for the 80% cashback, moved it to a deflatable arm of our firms, ex-patriated that money, and then folded the deflatable arm. That’s how Banks and Big Businesses are permitted to operate on the continental level by the IMF/ECB in particular. It’s no big secret. "

“Possession is 9/10ths of the law. Once we’ve nicked your money by stealth, it doesn’t matter how illegal or bent it was. We’re rich and getting richer whilst you either murder/suicide your families or take it on the chin saying “Oh well never mind” - because you’ve all lost your livlihoods at once…”, and no one is ever going to help you! We Win like we always do at Big Business level! "

Ask yourself this question folks…

Would you vote for a future political party that promised to punish Big Business and Banks?

Let’s hope that Boris gets better, and his team under his leadership deals with it - before the Shysters end up dealing with ALL of us - at once!

62

peirre:
They’re talking BS, This is my 2nd week of agency furlough.
If work has stopped and you meet the criteria to be furloughed & both parties agree then they can put you on it ASAP

All it says is at the time of writing they have not managed to access the portal and have been inormed it will be open from the end of april. They intend to pursue payments including backdated amounts they manage to claim.
Theres not a lot we can do until then, arguing with them wont resolve it either so just got to wait, and try and get something between now and then

63

Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

64

peirre:
Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

according to .gov website it cant be claimed until the end of april and backdated to march 1st

65

peirre:
Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

Most people will meet the criteria, but alas our government has failed to make it legally compulsory to make the payments to everyone “entitled”…
In practice, very few will end up getting any pay for being “stood down”, and those few that do - will rest assured be put back to work on the very next available shift going, thus permitting the firm to claim back their 80% pound of flesh for actual paid work rather than paid gardening leave… Not much good for those ON unpaid gardening leave with no hope of getting what scant work is about at present, especially those who’ve only joined the agency fairly recently, and are thus lower in “pecking order” for what few shifts that come along to be filled by a now-glut of agency bods…

The legislation could have been a bit better thought-out, as it is now going to be as hard for ordinary workers to arrange “payments in lieu of benefits” for (eg. payments for actually being stuck at home with no work) as claiming this Universal Credit, which has been mired in “teething troubles” being rolled out for YEARS already by this point.

66

I’m not sure where we stand if any of us on zero pay then
(1) Not resign from agency…
(2) Get work at a 2nd agency
(3) Let 1st agency stay as “Main Employer” in HMRC’s eyes
(4) Pay 40% tax on 2nd agency earnings
(5) Put in backdated claim for furlough pay later
(6) Get tax rebate on over-paid 40% taxed earnings later in tax year…

That would solve the cashflow problems to a certain extent - with a rebate to come later as well for paying 40% tax on those 2nd earnings that really should be taxed at 20%, if assuming one even earns upto the treshold for paying that much…

67

Did I lose a post for using the fword?

68

robbiepete:

peirre:
Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

according to .gov website it cant be claimed until the end of april and backdated to march 1st

Are you sure?
My mob paid me furlough money last week by mistake on top of my last wage, realised their mistake, so I suggested redressing the balance to repay it this week by withholding the full amount from this weeks money. However I received my pay slip yesterday and lo and behold they’ve paid me in full again.

They’re the gift that keeps on giving

69

peirre:

robbiepete:

peirre:
Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

according to .gov website it cant be claimed until the end of april and backdated to march 1st

Are you sure?
My mob paid me furlough money last week by mistake on top of my last wage, realised their mistake, so I suggested redressing the balance to repay it this week by withholding the full amount from this weeks money. However I received my pay slip yesterday and lo and behold they’ve paid me in full again.

They’re the gift that keeps on giving

An employer pays the worker now, but claims the money from the Gov later, when the scheme is working.
.
Arguably some employers don’t have the ready cash to do that, and don’t want to borrow.
.
Also the scheme is for temporary lay offs only. If there is no job for an employee to return to at the end of it all, the monies must be paid back. (By the company)

70

peirre:

robbiepete:

peirre:
Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

according to .gov website it cant be claimed until the end of april and backdated to march 1st

Are you sure?
My mob paid me furlough money last week by mistake on top of my last wage, realised their mistake, so I suggested redressing the balance to repay it this week by withholding the full amount from this weeks money. However I received my pay slip yesterday and lo and behold they’ve paid me in full again.

Yep, here’s the link, click on the top one and it clearly says about not being able to claim until end of april 2020.
gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-w … -can-claim

Your agency maybe has more cashflow then others, but they’ll claim it back

They’re the gift that keeps on giving

71

Franglais:

peirre:

robbiepete:

peirre:
Do you meet the criteria for furlough?
As it seems like they’re pulling a fast one on you

according to .gov website it cant be claimed until the end of april and backdated to march 1st

Are you sure?
My mob paid me furlough money last week by mistake on top of my last wage, realised their mistake, so I suggested redressing the balance to repay it this week by withholding the full amount from this weeks money. However I received my pay slip yesterday and lo and behold they’ve paid me in full again.

They’re the gift that keeps on giving

An employer pays the worker now, but claims the money from the Gov later, when the scheme is working.
.
Arguably some employers don’t have the ready cash to do that, and don’t want to borrow.
.
Also the scheme is for temporary lay offs only. If there is no job for an employee to return to at the end of it all, the monies must be paid back. (By the company)

What do we think will happen for those agencies who have been told by “clients” that the work is gone indefinitely, with the hint that it’ll never return neither?
I.e. An end to the Agency support and supply contract to that client?
Thus, if the agency thinks there is any risk whatsoever that the client contract will be cancelled at any time soon - the agency will then want to avoid paying “meanwhile” furlough payments like it was their last buck on Earth…

Human Nature is responsible for all of mankind’s ills - NOT “Religion” NOT “Nationalism” and most definitely NOT “Race”.

If Market Forces were ever to prevail - by the end of this year we’ll probably lose 3 out of 4 agencies, with 3 out of 4 drivers laid off by those agencies earlier in the year - safely finding gainful employment elsewhere…

That puts the vast majority of Agencies then - in the same boat as the EU… “Ongoingly” to use their own buzzword there…

EU Sinking.jpg
EU Sinking.jpg768×615 42.4 KB

72

Franglais:
Also the scheme is for temporary lay offs only. If there is no job for an employee to return to at the end of it all, the monies must be paid back. (By the company)

Official source for that claim?

73

Conor:

Franglais:
Also the scheme is for temporary lay offs only. If there is no job for an employee to return to at the end of it all, the monies must be paid back. (By the company)

Official source for that claim?

The easy way to get around this is to only give bits and pieces of work to those drivers you intend to eventually furlugh, and avoid giving it to the bulk of drivers that you hope will chuck it in after weeks and weeks of zero pay… A symptom of this halfway through the lockdown - might well be how quickly the agency decides to actually find any excuse to boot people for “gross misconduct” or some other similar undefined reason if there is even a whiff of them being ill rather than pay them furlough pay immediately from that point otherwise…

After this is all over, no wised-up driver will likely ever want to darken their doors again.
If you boil down all agencies to leave "just those who play it straight" - then my guess is it’ll be like condensed “froth” ending up with an inch of beer at the bottom of the glass…

There will always be “Good” agencies and “Bad” ones…
This “Furloughment” issue will sort the men from the boys. :neutral_face:

74

Conor:

Franglais:
Also the scheme is for temporary lay offs only. If there is no job for an employee to return to at the end of it all, the monies must be paid back. (By the company)

Official source for that claim?

Good question.
I can’t find one, so it’s fair to say I’m wrong.
Sorry.
.
In mitigation, I distinctly remember a broadcast conversation saying this was a risk for employers early after the initial announcements by Sunak, but I can’t see any reliable source now.
Sorry again.

75

Franglais:

Conor:

Franglais:
Also the scheme is for temporary lay offs only. If there is no job for an employee to return to at the end of it all, the monies must be paid back. (By the company)

Official source for that claim?

Good question.
I can’t find one, so it’s fair to say I’m wrong.
Sorry.
.
In mitigation, I distinctly remember a broadcast conversation saying this was a risk for employers early after the initial announcements by Sunak, but I can’t see any reliable source now.
Sorry again.

Thank you fransais, I read the gov web site after your post & it
Clearly says if your paid through a umbrella company ( Pierre says I am ) you are entitled to furlough pay , thanks

76

Anyone else wondering if the day of the permanent agency driver is fast approaching the end.
What with pay parity and the postponed ending of self employed status, there’s no way a company paying decent money will pay the rates required to put an agency driver in the seat.
Same rates as full timers + the agency commission + whatever the umbrella scam costs the individual driver, i can’t see it being worth it…unless the full timer rate is so artificially poor that no one will work there full time and the operation is deliberately run around temp drivers.

Bringing this round to furlough, if the agency has to re-imburse the govt (the taxpayer, remember a govt has no money of its own) i can’t see many agencies taking the gamble on still having a viable business if and when some form of normailty resumes, maybe it’s carefully chosen reliable regulars who are getting the offer of furlough, the few who they wouldn’t want to let go, same as anywhere there will be people the employer would not want to lose and people they wouldn’t be sorry to see the back of.

77

There will always be a need for temporary drivers due to seasonal changes in demand, but are employers willing to engage staff under current employment laws in the knowledge they can’t keep them busy during quieter times, and the financial liability that comes with it. As for you original question, I don’t know wether the numbers required in the future will be at the same levels is yet to be seen.

78

Juddian:
Anyone else wondering if the day of the permanent agency driver is fast approaching the end.
What with pay parity and the postponed ending of self employed status, there’s no way a company paying decent money will pay the rates required to put an agency driver in the seat.
Same rates as full timers + the agency commission + whatever the umbrella scam costs the individual driver, i can’t see it being worth it…unless the full timer rate is so artificially poor that no one will work there full time and the operation is deliberately run around temp drivers.

Bringing this round to furlough, if the agency has to re-imburse the govt (the taxpayer, remember a govt has no money of its own) i can’t see many agencies taking the gamble on still having a viable business if and when some form of normailty resumes, maybe it’s carefully chosen reliable regulars who are getting the offer of furlough, the few who they wouldn’t want to let go, same as anywhere there will be people the employer would not want to lose and people they wouldn’t be sorry to see the back of.

This is a good point raised about the parity pay and “full time” agency drivers.

I work full time for a large high street retailer, we are the same as most supermarket work in this industry in that we are heavily unionised, have excellent pay and perks, sensible hours - contracted to 43 but usually average 35-40 most weeks (paid for 43 if you do less), OT paid daily and at a higher rate, good pension etc

Anyway, we use about 20-25 agency a day, most of them regulars and once this swedish derogation was announced our place have slowly been using less and less and taking on more permanent because it will cost them more when you factor in they would have to pay the drivers the same as us and then the agency fees on top.

Now our regular agency were all great guys who did just as a good a job and did the job properly without taking the pee, however they were all getting excited about their big pay rise this April only for most of them to now be getting hardly any shifts - obviously the covid19 crisis has seen an end to any agency shifts at our place.

I can imagine there will lots and lots of companies up and down the country doing the same. As Pierre says, there will always be a need for agency drivers but I’m guessing more on an ad-hoc basis and more late notice rather than being “full time” in places.

79

^^^ similar situation where i am, the more forward thinking agency lads got themselves taken on full time as derogation approached, there’s a handful of trained up (specialist work) and reliable agency lads who are still in regularly but i can see the time approaching when if they don’t accept offers of full time they’ll gradually find themselves only being used when desperate.

80

Juddian:
Anyone else wondering if the day of the permanent agency driver is fast approaching the end.
What with pay parity and the postponed ending of self employed status, there’s no way a company paying decent money will pay the rates required to put an agency driver in the seat.
Same rates as full timers + the agency commission + whatever the umbrella scam costs the individual driver, i can’t see it being worth it…unless the full timer rate is so artificially poor that no one will work there full time and the operation is deliberately run around temp drivers.

Bringing this round to furlough, if the agency has to re-imburse the govt (the taxpayer, remember a govt has no money of its own) i can’t see many agencies taking the gamble on still having a viable business if and when some form of normailty resumes, maybe it’s carefully chosen reliable regulars who are getting the offer of furlough, the few who they wouldn’t want to let go, same as anywhere there will be people the employer would not want to lose and people they wouldn’t be sorry to see the back of.

That’s what I’ve been getting at…
When taking a job from here on - we should be negotiating T&Cs rather than “headline hourly rates” any longer.

If you take two main agency “contractors” such as Supermarkets and Royal Mail for instance, as someone that’s worked at both in the past year - I’ll point out the obvious that there is this deep reluctance among the firm hiring bums on seats - to pay the high rates that have now come about in those two industries in particular…
Someone like myself who always chased the big bucks over the years on agency - now finds these ongoing attempts to have the door closed in my face everywhere I go, and then this notion that somehow “It is all my fault I’m being let go” when I’ve still got the clean licence, decades of experience, etc.

It ain’t just me though - is it? We’re ALL being got rid of at once, so the very full time staff that originally might back been wielding the backstab knives as it were…

Now find themselves being told by their firms “Right. We’ve got rid of the Limpers… You’re next - unless you can be “flexible” meaning working 60 hour weeks for 48 hour pay from now on…”
“Oooerr… We’d better not go sick - or we’ll get stood down on zero pay just like the now-gone agency drivers!”

The Tyranny the full timer now looks like having in front of them - is only just beginning.

With agency gone - there won’t be any more upstart drivers like myself arguing “f— this. I’d rather work agency doing the same job for £2ph more…”

Full timers are now trapped. The only out is to “resign” and with no job to go to - who’s gonna have the balls to do THAT any more?

Let fortune favour the brave.

I’m starting to think that “Furloughment Pay” will never materialize anywhere at all…
It is just a filter to see who tries throwing sickies to get it, only to lose their jobs from “voluntary stand-down”…

Any Peter Perfect driver who thinks that “Once we’ve got rid of unpopular types” (such as yours truly…) “Things will get better for the bulk of us Union-leaning folk”.
Well, good luck with that, what on your new “unpaid overtime” full time contracts you cannot get out of now, because there’s no agencies left by Christmas to run to this year!
Full Timers aided and abetted management in “running the limpers out of town” - so they’ve only got themselves to blame from now on too…