Did you agree to be furloughed?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

As I understand it, to be furloughed, your company has to be in a position where they can not keep you gainfully employed (I.e., they either have to close by order, or loose work because customers have closed), and therefore would have to end your contract under normal circumstances. To avoid widespread business closures, and the resulting mass unemployment, the government introduced this Furlough system, to try and keep businesses ticking, until we (hopefully) return to some sort of normal.
The Furlough system as I understand it, does not include a ‘voluntary’ option, where people can ‘choose’ not to work, but be paid 80% of their wages nonetheless…

As I understand, the company has to effectively shut down the operation, and offer you the opportunity to be furloughed (and thus remain under contract, which usually includes clauses about working elsewhere), and you have to accept it.
Everybody thinks, nay hopes, that in a few months we will simply pick up where we left off.
But what if (when… ) we dont? There’ll be a lot of businesses that cant simply “carry on/restart” when this is over, and the government stops paying the furlough money…
Then, when the business you worked for, goes under after all, you’ll fi d yourself unemployed.

I think, a lot of the lazy lady gardens who are currently thinking off, or boasting about, their taxpayer funded holidays, may find themselves in a spot of bother when this is over.

2

our Customer,with over 170 shops,has shut down for the duration :frowning: after struggling on for a couple of weeks,our Chiefs have found work at 2 other sites,which can use 16,i think,of our 30 odd drivers.we were all asked which we preferred,furlough or the other work.i opted to furlough.one of the other jobs is pretty ■■■■■■■■■■■ their motors and travelling to their site.hopefully,things will get back to normal in the next few weeks or months…if they don’t,redundancies all round i would think :frowning:

3

The furlough scheme is initially for 3 months however it can be extended if deemed necessary by the government. The terms given to me when I accepted furlough included informing my employer IF I take on work elsewhere

4

No you can’t volunteer for it. There’s drivers where I work who tried to volunteer to go first so that say younger lads with families to support can keep working but it wasn’t allowed.

I wouldn’t call it a tax payer funded holiday really. What sort of holiday is it when you can’t leave the house other than for essentials, and your worried there might not be a job to return to. Yes I’ve got some big jobs done in the house that I wouldn’t have done if I was working but I’d definitely rather be at work with then security that comes with that.

5

peirre:
The furlough scheme is initially for 3 months however it can be extended if deemed necessary by the government. The terms given to me when I accepted furlough included informing my employer IF I take on work elsewhere

And what happens if you do, do they end your employment? Or just not pay you the 80%? Can’t see it being allowed to claim 80% and also work as that’s not the point of the government scheme

6

We’re all going to be affected by this, including those of us in jobs that mean we carry on working normally.

The govt isn’t giving companies or people money, because the govt does not have any money, it collects money from citizens and companies making profits and hopefully spends it for the greater good.

For years now the govt has been spending more than it can collect (if we’d had genuine austerity they wouldn’t have got re-elected) and has been borrowing to keep the whole ponzi scheme going, the country was in no position to throw more borrowed money around like confetti but due to this enforced lockdown catastrophe…and it will be interesting to see how Sweden which isn’t in or contemplating lockdown fares by comparison…they had to do something or the whole private business economy would have had to lay workers off by the million, without any pay, or go broke in a matter of days or weeks.

The govt will have to borrow £billions more to prop this furlough solution up, this on top of the unpayable near enough £2000billion current national debt.

Seeing as the govt have no money of their own, it doesn’t take a genius to work out who they’ll be taking vastly increasing amounts from to try and stem the flow as soon as possible, yes the good old taxpayer.
Brace yourselves for what we are about to receive, borrowed money has to be paid back, and with interest.

I have a sneaky feeling the Brexit transition date can is going to get kicked down the road too.

7

the nodding donkey:
As I understand it, to be furloughed, your company has to be in a position where they can not keep you gainfully employed (I.e., they either have to close by order, or loose work because customers have closed), and therefore would have to end your contract under normal circumstances. To avoid widespread business closures, and the resulting mass unemployment, the government introduced this Furlough system, to try and keep businesses ticking, until we (hopefully) return to some sort of normal.
The Furlough system as I understand it, does not include a ‘voluntary’ option, where people can ‘choose’ not to work, but be paid 80% of their wages nonetheless…

As I understand, the company has to effectively shut down the operation, and offer you the opportunity to be furloughed (and thus remain under contract, which usually includes clauses about working elsewhere), and you have to accept it.
Everybody thinks, nay hopes, that in a few months we will simply pick up where we left off.
But what if (when… ) we dont? There’ll be a lot of businesses that cant simply “carry on/restart” when this is over, and the government stops paying the furlough money…
Then, when the business you worked for, goes under after all, you’ll fi d yourself unemployed.

I think, a lot of the lazy lady gardens who are currently thinking off, or boasting about, their taxpayer funded holidays, may find themselves in a spot of bother when this is over.

Thats how I understand it too. It is trying to keep some cash floating around, so that we dont “restart” with everyone unemployed, and no spare cash anywhere for customers to make purchases and get companies working again.
.
And I agree with you about those few who might earlier have been slagging off those taking £95 a week on the dole, when times were good, but seem happy to take maybe £600 for doing nowt now.
No criticism from me of those who are furloughed because of lack of work, but the attitude of a few seems to cut against the principles of it all. Only a small number, but enough to be noticeable.
And I`ll repeat, for those who would otherwise be unemployed, yes, take the money and keep the system ticking over.

8

I didn’t really have a choice, a bulk of our work is aviation, which there all shutting or have shut, so euro work has dried up for us. Not all of the drivers have been furloughed, me and 15others out of 40ish drivers. Some with health reasons, some because there mrs are pregnant and some like myself where there isn’t enough work to go around. It is rather ■■■■■ being at home everyday, but there isn’t really anything i can do. My contract doesn’t allow me to work elsewhere, and apparently if i was to work elsewhere i could end up paying the money back, how true that is i don’t know.

9

Yes ZB joke , whilst I’m sleeping in
Lay-bys , 70 hrs week , abandoned on a fri night
These idle ZB will be sat on there asses , drinking
Cans of beer for a few £,s less than I get .
Then to rub salt in the wound I’m
Going to have to pay higher taxes for god
Noes how long to pay for there 3 month
■■■■ up
I’m so mad about this

10

bristolrob:
I didn’t really have a choice, a bulk of our work is aviation, which there all shutting or have shut, so euro work has dried up for us. Not all of the drivers have been furloughed, me and 15others out of 40ish drivers. Some with health reasons, some because there mrs are pregnant and some like myself where there isn’t enough work to go around. It is rather [zb] being at home everyday, but there isn’t really anything i can do. My contract doesn’t allow me to work elsewhere, and apparently if i was to work elsewhere i could end up paying the money back, how true that is i don’t know.

I dont know how it works, but since some drivers etc have lost jobs, and are only getting dole money, I wouldnt think it right that someone would take a paid job in addition to taking 80% from the Government. (Or as Juddian says from our future taxes).

11

When this first kicked off, terms and conditions were tightened, and the management said that the needed to get more for less from us, in order to survive the ordeal.

A few weeks later they announced that we’d need to take a temporary 20% pay cut from April until June. We’d also have to sign a form to indicate our choice, as to whether we’d prefer unpaid leave (the government scheme wasn’t even around then, so burning into savings was the only option then), or prefer a reduced work schedule (shorter days and weeks). Naturally, most applied for reduced work, as this was the most financial viable. The company placed a caveat in the announcement, stating that those who don’t agree with the pay cut and or the options given, would be putting themselves up for redundancy. Failure to submit the form would also result in redundancy. The next day we received a thank you email from HR, stating that 100% of workers had agreed with the above terms.

When the government furlough scheme was announced, the company made an announcement that they may not be able to apply it, as the company could not afford to have future debt because of this scheme. Therefore it was implied that workers would be taking unpaid leave with no financial aid. Naturally, I think this is ludicrous. For argument’s sake, someone could take 2 months unpaid leave, and eradicate their savings. Then the company could go bust anyway, leaving people without a penny in the world. And a brutally competitive job market, which will take months to find a job.

The company then decided that they would be doing the government scheme, after all. April and May off, for me. Given the state of the company, I honestly can’t see me going back to work on June 1st. It’s not like the clouds will part and all will be fine. Business will take time to get going again. And firms will be bleeding money as we speak, and will continue do so until the start making enough money. All those costs, and practically zero income. All I can see is a huge downsizing, base closures, and a return to the very core business of the company. Full redundancies following in due course.

Business owners have to make an effort to fund the company before they apply for government aid. The government won’t just throw money into a company, when the minted owners won’t. So I’m assuming times will come when putting a company into administration becomes cheaper than the owner putting money in. Especially ones teetering on the edge as it is.

So sadly, I agree with the OP. People rubbing their hands at the prospect of 2 months at 80% salary, for sitting at home drinking lager and watching Homes Under the Hammer, may very well not have a company to go back to afterwards.

12

At our place volumes have dropped meaning there is now no longer work for 120 drivers, instead theres only work for 40 so they’ve furloughed the rest hoping that when this passes volumes will pick up and those drivers will be required again.

The alternative is having a crippling wage bill with reduced income so either the business runs out of cash, or you make those drivers redundant. The scheme allows this not to happen.

Now how do you decide who to furlough when part of the business remains? Well my lot have furloughed those who are shielding for 12 weeks and those who have childcare issues first, then they asked for volunteers to go next. What’s the other option, choosing each person? Is it then not better to look for those who want to go (for whatever reasons, be it health or leaving it for younger peeps or whatever?) rather than perhaps pushing those who dont?

13

If you have a medical condition, and you need to shield, you can volunteer to be furloughed, also companies with a few employees, can ask for volunteers before, compulsory doing furlough, Only downside at the moment there’s nothing in place yet on .Gov for the employer to fill in, so they are paying from own reserves, and then claim it back, around end April…

If I get asked I might consider it, 3 months off, no travelling, shouldn’t be much worse off… Look at the positives…

14

Juddian:
We’re all going to be affected by this, including those of us in jobs that mean we carry on working normally.

The govt isn’t giving companies or people money, because the govt does not have any money, it collects money from citizens and companies making profits and hopefully spends it for the greater good.

For years now the govt has been spending more than it can collect (if we’d had genuine austerity they wouldn’t have got re-elected) and has been borrowing to keep the whole ponzi scheme going, the country was in no position to throw more borrowed money around like confetti but due to this enforced lockdown catastrophe…and it will be interesting to see how Sweden which isn’t in or contemplating lockdown fares by comparison…they had to do something or the whole private business economy would have had to lay workers off by the million, without any pay, or go broke in a matter of days or weeks.

The govt will have to borrow £billions more to prop this furlough solution up, this on top of the unpayable near enough £2000billion current national debt.

Seeing as the govt have no money of their own, it doesn’t take a genius to work out who they’ll be taking vastly increasing amounts from to try and stem the flow as soon as possible, yes the good old taxpayer.
Brace yourselves for what we are about to receive, borrowed money has to be paid back, and with interest.

I have a sneaky feeling the Brexit transition date can is going to get kicked down the road too.

I think it could be even worse that this.

Those helpful and friendly Chinese are currently offering their help and support around the world in these troubling times to aliveate the pain here and now but you can bet the farm on the future when that aid has to be paid back, that bankrupt governments with no cash on hand will give up assets and infrastructure as repayment.

Best start brushing up on your Mandarin because the rinky ■■■■■ are taking the world.

15

Franglais:

bristolrob:
I didn’t really have a choice, a bulk of our work is aviation, which there all shutting or have shut, so euro work has dried up for us. Not all of the drivers have been furloughed, me and 15others out of 40ish drivers. Some with health reasons, some because there mrs are pregnant and some like myself where there isn’t enough work to go around. It is rather [zb] being at home everyday, but there isn’t really anything i can do. My contract doesn’t allow me to work elsewhere, and apparently if i was to work elsewhere i could end up paying the money back, how true that is i don’t know.

I dont know how it works, but since some drivers etc have lost jobs, and are only getting dole money, I wouldnt think it right that someone would take a paid job in addition to taking 80% from the Government. (Or as Juddian says from our future taxes).

It is allowed under the scheme for people who have been made redundant (I think) / laid off / left voluntarily in a certain period before furloughing (what a stupid word) to be taken back on and then furloughed. It is up to the employer though and you have no right to demand it. I cannot remember the cut-off date but will look it up.

EDit. If you have been made redundant since 28 February, your former employer can choose to rehire you under the furlough scheme. But employees hired for the first time after that date are not eligible for it.

I did see somewhere that they have extended that to people who left voluntarily for another job but that job has ow disappeared in this mess.

16

manski:

Franglais:

bristolrob:
I didn’t really have a choice, a bulk of our work is aviation, which there all shutting or have shut, so euro work has dried up for us. Not all of the drivers have been furloughed, me and 15others out of 40ish drivers. Some with health reasons, some because there mrs are pregnant and some like myself where there isn’t enough work to go around. It is rather [zb] being at home everyday, but there isn’t really anything i can do. My contract doesn’t allow me to work elsewhere, and apparently if i was to work elsewhere i could end up paying the money back, how true that is i don’t know.

I dont know how it works, but since some drivers etc have lost jobs, and are only getting dole money, I wouldnt think it right that someone would take a paid job in addition to taking 80% from the Government. (Or as Juddian says from our future taxes).

It is allowed under the scheme for people who have been made redundant (I think) / laid off / left voluntarily in a certain period before furloughing (what a stupid word) to be taken back on and then furloughed. It is up to the employer though and you have no right to demand it. I cannot remember the cut-off date but will look it up.

Yes, I think youre right in what you say. But. Some have been made redundant and wont qualify for furlough at all. The 80% will only be paid if there the job is there at the end of this period. If someone is furloughed, but due to shrinkage the company cannot take them on again, the company must repay the monies they received. So, even those companies that could apply for this money wont do so because of the risk of future debt. Ill stand corrected if I have that wrong.

17

In my case I initially did not want to be furloughed, so I basically refused last Friday.
After thinking more about it and after getting stick off family, I basically changed my mind, so aked about it at weekend, and was told the offer was off the table, so I went back into work Tues willingly as it was my own doing…so fair enough.
Then end of shift on that Tues, I was told that they wanted me to finish after all, if and when I got back, to which I agreed.this time with no arguments.
The job I normally do was done while I was off last week, but with fewer drops, so I’ll give that another week before it phases out, so it was justified after all on reflection.

Of course I’d rather be at work,.I ain’t stupid enough to think of this as a paid holiday as such, but neither am I going to pretend that I am not at the same time enjoying being at home for a bit, I’ve done my fair share and then some of spending time away over the years.
So basically putting a positive spin on it and making best of a bad job. :bulb:

When all this is over, and if it lasts a long time rather than a short period, the economy in Europe (and most of the rest of the world) is going to be ■■■■ ed. :bulb:
None of us were around in 1945 when WW2 ended, but I reckon it will be a similar scenario but without the physical damage to countries this time, but the same economical and emotional damage to same countries and their population.

18

Franglais:

manski:

Franglais:

bristolrob:
I didn’t really have a choice, a bulk of our work is aviation, which there all shutting or have shut, so euro work has dried up for us. Not all of the drivers have been furloughed, me and 15others out of 40ish drivers. Some with health reasons, some because there mrs are pregnant and some like myself where there isn’t enough work to go around. It is rather [zb] being at home everyday, but there isn’t really anything i can do. My contract doesn’t allow me to work elsewhere, and apparently if i was to work elsewhere i could end up paying the money back, how true that is i don’t know.

I dont know how it works, but since some drivers etc have lost jobs, and are only getting dole money, I wouldnt think it right that someone would take a paid job in addition to taking 80% from the Government. (Or as Juddian says from our future taxes).

It is allowed under the scheme for people who have been made redundant (I think) / laid off / left voluntarily in a certain period before furloughing (what a stupid word) to be taken back on and then furloughed. It is up to the employer though and you have no right to demand it. I cannot remember the cut-off date but will look it up.

Yes, I think youre right in what you say. But. Some have been made redundant and wont qualify for furlough at all. The 80% will only be paid if there the job is there at the end of this period. If someone is furloughed, but due to shrinkage the company cannot take them on again, the company must repay the monies they received. So, even those companies that could apply for this money wont do so because of the risk of future debt. Ill stand corrected if I have that wrong.

You are probably right about the redundancy, hard to see how that would be reversed. We, as a company totally staffed by family, but me as the one finally responsible I am a bit jittery about waiting for the final version to appear on the PAYE website whilst paying out full wages with no income in the meantime. Not that I begrudge paying the money but don’t want to be in a “false dawn” situation. We had to shut down as 90% of our business is events based, of which there are none…
I honestly have no idea about the scenario of not needing everyone you have furloughed when you start up again. I don’t think that will occur for us, we could not operate at all with less than we have now so the alternative would be liquidation anyway.

19

manski:
You are probably right about the redundancy, hard to see how that would be reversed. We, as a company totally staffed by family, but me as the one finally responsible I am a bit jittery about waiting for the final version to appear on the PAYE website whilst paying out full wages with no income in the meantime. Not that I begrudge paying the money but don’t want to be in a “false dawn” situation. We had to shut down as 90% of our business is events based, of which there are none…
I honestly have no idea about the scenario of not needing everyone you have furloughed when you start up again. I don’t think that will occur for us, we could not operate at all with less than we have now so the alternative would be liquidation anyway.

It is a very difficult situation for all.
No less because we havent seen anything similar in modern times, few past lessons to learn from. So often the "devil is in the detail" with these schemes, and since they are being brought out quicker than would be the norm, there is a lot of possible downsides to consider in them. . Would it be less risky to make everyone redundant, and hire afresh later? If, in good faith a company furloughed all their employees, but only had work for 50% of them later; then had to repay all of that 80% pay for the 50% of workers, now let go, that could drag the whole enterprise down. It isnt anyone being reckless with Gov money, just the uncertainty of everything.
Strange times.

20

Most of the economy is frozen or put to sleep, it’s not like a recession the banks are healthy and a lot of big companies also
There will be a lot of jobs lost and company’s closing but when this is over people will be spending like mad
What i don’t understand is any investment in pension or whatever is losing money hand over fist, was that not put to sleep or are they just making a killing as they normally do and the man on the street always loses