From an agency’s point of view…pause for applause…
If they furlough an employee and claim those monies from the Gov, when the furlough ends that employee must be in paid work, as before. If not the employer/ agency must pay back the money to the Gov.
If they are unsure they can employ someone later, It would be too risky for them to offer furlough as an option.
.
I’m not a fan of agencies but, realistically, offering furlough is difficult…
Franglais:
From an agency’s point of view…pause for applause…
If they furlough an employee and claim those monies from the Gov, when the furlough ends that employee must be in paid work, as before. If not the employer/ agency must pay back the money to the Gov.
If they are unsure they can employ someone later, It would be too risky for them to offer furlough as an option.
.
I’m not a fan of agencies but, realistically, offering furlough is difficult…
That’s basically how I see it. I am actually surprised at pierre and conor getting furlough pay from their respective agencies. It would be interesting to know how many other agency lads are getting it and their work background/terms they’re “employed” under.
the nodding donkey:
winseer
I remember the times in the past with different agencies when I got offered a totally unsuitable assignment (which I was presumably expected to turn down…)
I accepted it though, only for them to phone back 5 minutes later to tell me “Oh, It’s been cancelled”.
Just the standard agency patter for “We’ll lie to you to try and trick you into resigning, and tell you some more lies until you fall for one, somewhere at some time”…As I said some time ago - I detest office politics.
All a worker wants is a square deal done fair and square, paid at a fair rate that is written down and easily understood by both sides.
That’s it.WHY oh WHY this perceived need to f— the workforce about with the “Lies Management” thing where we’re kept in the dark, not told anything, and punished for things you’re left to guess at?
…
My suggestion would be to meet them halfway, either attending a low-paid assignment in my own area OR having to travel further to get a high-paid assignment.
I used to work for agencies, years ago. It’s simple really. I presented my services and requirements. They offered work. If suitable, I agreed and worked.
If said agency forked me about I signed up with another agency. Vote with your feet. Show some backbone.But I’ve a sneaky feeling that you’ve run out of agencies/placements that will put up with you…
I’m on my tenth agency in the past decade, of which you take out 3 years where I was a full timer for Brakes.
Dunno what your perception of me struggling to find “those that’ll put up with me”…?
How does that work exactly?
“Prepared to work Weekday nights, and PM starts @ weekends” I presented my services and requirements.
“Occasionally work outside those parameters for one-off Friday-Monday shifts. on a needs-must basis”. They offered work, that if suitable - I agreed, and worked.
Being forked about by any agency I’d just signed up with, usually took the form of “expecting me to go 4-5 weeks without my first assignment.” when a reasonable fresh sign-up would be expecting at least a token single shift in the days immediately following the sigh-up process…
I’m on the 10th agency I signed up with, and the 4th one to give me that “token shift” within days of me signing up.
I don’t think I was asking for the moon here.
In any case, there’s not much point trying to find a different agency now because the lies are at an all-time-high at the moment…
They’d promise me anything I was looking for, and if I was lucky, I’d get offered a shift later that first week after sign-up with a minimum wage shift over 50 miles away doing something like “C2 multidrop in London” or something similar…
“Meeting halfway” - would be me prepared to commute to say, Dover for £13.50ph (back in 2011) or prepared to work for £9ph locally (a mile from where I live) in 2012-13.
There’s no point commuting stupid distance for minimum wage - ever. What doesn’t go in my car on wasted fuel - goes on my table right now as food. 
Franglais:
From an agency’s point of view…pause for applause…
If they furlough an employee and claim those monies from the Gov, when the furlough ends that employee must be in paid work, as before. If not the employer/ agency must pay back the money to the Gov.
If they are unsure they can employ someone later, It would be too risky for them to offer furlough as an option.
.
I’m not a fan of agencies but, realistically, offering furlough is difficult…
These “conditions and exception” requirements on the gov website
mean that FIRMS have taken it upon themselves to screw down very tightly their own T&Cs including for full timers.
This, in time - could indeed end up being a “Bonfire of Agencies” as a massive glut of individual agencies are chasing a tiny pool of the same clients for the same shifts, even…
Just as Sunak offers something “Inflationary” to get us out of difficulties…
Our own workplaces have taken it upon themselves to ensure that this is a DEflationary crash, rather than the inflationary kind.
Not “1987” then, but rather “Thought that we’d be the last to go” 1930’s style…
We can’t go on blaming the Chinese or anyone beyond ourselves and our own so-called business leaders - can we?
The “Protestors” of the future - will be protesting outside of company HQ’s rather than “Government Districts”…
My own Left leanings on Finance would have me in Sunak’s position of inflicting penalties on those firms who are chomping at the bit to screw all their own workforces from here on…
I’d massively raise corporation taxes for those firms who:
(a) didn’t go bust
(b) Cut pay/Jobs/Conditions
(c) Asked the government for money
(d) Have a track record of “Tax Avoidance” in the past
the nodding donkey:
But I’ve a sneaky feeling that you’ve run out of agencies/placements that will put up with you…
This.
If you can be bothered deciphering his ramblings, it’s clear that he’s one of those militant sorts that tries to dictate the terms of engagement and uses the rules & regs to refuse to do stuff when it suits. That’s fine and dandy when there’s an abundance of work and the agencies need you more than you need them so can play them off against each other. Not so fine when you haven’t worked for 3 weeks and have a wife, kids, rent to pay and food to buy and the agency only has 5 jobs with 100 drivers wanting them. The agencies won’t even bother listening to your bleating about having to work any 5 from 7, they’ll just block your number and give the work to one of their regular drivers who just gets on with it without complaining and will be glad of the work.
A lot of agency and limited co drivers are quickly going to find out that their cushy little numbers have ended and they’ll have to fight over for the scraps with everyone else if they want an income.
My aversion to “any five from seven” was actually with reference to full time contracts. I’ve always been more than happy to work them when required on agency, such as across Christmas last year…
The upside of agency it is true - is that hourly rates tend to be better, and supposedly one is permitted to work when one feels like, rather than be bullied into working for inferior pay, further out than can be reasonably got to, or of course - a job that one needs yet another assessment/induction to get assigned at.
As for all this rubbish about me somehow being a thorn in the side of firms I’ve worked at - why would that be the case?
I know plenty of drivers on full time contracts who’d NEVER work “Saturdays” or NEVER do “Overtime” and expect their truck to be left all nice and clean for them, scrubbed by the previous driver, got back in time for them to take over, etc etc. as if they own the place… I’ve never had such a “Jobsworth” attitude about my labour, regardless of where I’ve worked.
…I don’t even take my politics to work with me, since I am well aware how much of a pain people can be to me once they know it.
That’s why I detest office politics though… I wouldn’t want some work “colleague” looking at me whilst I was in the gents, nor would I want to have some kind of debate on the shop floor, so to speak - that merely draws attention to myself for the wrong reasons…
I like to turn up, get on with it, chuck my keys in, and go home, hopefully without being bothered by some other peer who thinks that merely because I’m agency, that I can casually be treated like scum at all times.
I’ve not picked a fight with them so why do they muck me about behind my backs, the constant grass-ups, moaning when I’ve taken too long to do something, or astute attention taken of my duties that just wouldn’t be taken over other “regular” drivers, let’s say…
And No. I’m not constantly wandering around the yard, moaning at how hard-done-by I am, neither! I’ll save my “moaning” for my “online ramblings” if you will. It helps me let off steam, you see…
At work, I come across as the “Quiet, Liberal-sounding guy who’s just here to keep his head down, and earn a crust” which is what we’re ALL supposed to be doing - isn’t it?
In short, if someone decides to get rid of me because they’ve taken a personal dislike to me - then that’s something they have done TO me, rather than anything i could possibly have done to reduce their income, put their job at risk, ruin their entire life, etc etc.
As I said, “Office politics - ■■■■■” simply because I DO take offence at those who bugger me around, but never to my face, unless it’s a disciplinary issue, and they have the firm on their side.
Even “Taking Offence” - I’m merely putting up an argument: Not getting physical, nor sweary like so many of my peers have done on a regular basis over the years - and yet, get away with it, because they are clearly more accepted and “left alone” like I’ve always longed to be, but couldn’t manage - even in 22 years as a full timer.
If I’m on a different wavelength - then FFS just leave me alone as that, rather than pressing me to “conform” with a bunch of people way beyond what should be “common work interests”…
I’m sure any of you would be upset if a fellow driver, even an actual mate decided to put your entire life at risk, merely because they were irritated at you lining up a better situation for yourself, rather than take the “Live and let Live” outlook as I always do when at work. Not happy at me getting paid a higher hourly rate at you? - Why not ■■■■ it in, and just be a decent human being, rather than “grass me up for walking across the yard without using the walkways” - hmm? Not happy at me getting your truck back in time? Why not ■■■■ it in, as it’s the firm’s truck not yours - rather than grass me up for taking a 15 on the derv pumps, cos I’d get a WTD 6 hour infringement if I didn’t… Not happy at me taking too long/too little time doing your regular run? Why not ■■■■ it in, as you won’t ever get sacked for that, rather than grass me up so my phone stops ringing for perceived “Hanging it out” or “Carving it up” hmm? 
In a follow up to ^^^^this - it would seem that firms who’ve stood people down without them actually being ill, or in a high-risk group self-isolating…
…don’t get paid, ever again for the rest of their natural lives…
Did you actually read the same document as me? It even says that if you laid off a worker after 28th of February you can rehire them, instantly furlough them and claim the 80% with no requirement to keep them on at the end of this.
Conor:
In a follow up to ^^^^this - it would seem that firms who’ve stood people down without them actually being ill, or in a high-risk group self-isolating…
…don’t get paid, ever again for the rest of their natural lives…
Did you actually read the same document as me? It even says that if you laid off a worker after 28th of February you can rehire them, instantly furlough them and claim the 80% with no requirement to keep them on at the end of this.
Those are two different things “Being given work NOW” and “Being kept on after this is over”…
Firms meanwhile - don’t want to pay anyone 80% of their pay to sit at home. If they stay on the books, they want them working to get them only to get or keep them off Furlough, or given nothing, hoping they’ll panic, and resign of their own accord. Either way, there is NO intent by the firms to pay these “furlough payments” up front, because even 20% of one’s regular wages to date “for sitting at home, ongoingly” - is too much for them to wear at this, or any other time, I suspect. There’s a fantastic opportunity for firms to defraud the taxpayer here, better known as “Moral Hazard” - which if it duly happens - will put firms in the same place as the Banks - hated by the general public, with future “political protests” being outside their HQs rather than Parliament Square, most likely…
Think about it: A firm can claim the payment from the government, and give that “taken on, and furloughed worker” - absolutely no work at all, and no intent to give them any, for whatever reason you see fit.
Such a claim - would then be fraudulant, as the firm is supposed to pay 80% of the average last 3 months earnings TO that furloughed employer… If you get rid of them, take them back, and then furlough them - their “average last 3 months earnings” - then becomes ZERO because they “left, and came back” - break of service! I wouldn’t have thought that ANY firm taking a fresh recruit on would then pay them their average earnings from their PREVIOUS employer, and even if they did - one only need feed them zero work for 12-13 weeks and hey presto - the average is zero, the furlough payment - becomes zero too! If the employee sticks around - then the employer has the “moral hazard” of carrying on paying zero, failing to pay stamp, and waiting them out" bearing in mind an “Employed” person might have rather a harder time claiming benefits, even and especially if they ended up putting themselves out of work by resigning on their own account…
The money flows from Taxpayer to Government, Government to Firms via the Banking system, and finally stays there, with firms doing their level best to get everyone already being furloughed ON pay “back to work asap”, making space for them to COME back via getting rid of all the overtime and agency staff… Firm gains the subsidy, firm is paying the wages, but the workers are barely off before being back on duty again, and you’ve turned over the entire staff at the same time, at any other time - a “socially unacceptable practice”>…
Been told by an agency mate who works where I do that the PAYE agency guys can apply for furlough but not the Ltd Co guys. Guess Bogdan and his mates will not be happy about that. I think that the agency is Staffline, not 100% sure though as non of them wear agency uniforms.
the maoster:
Been told by an agency mate who works where I do that the PAYE agency guys can apply for furlough but not the Ltd Co guys. Guess Bogdan and his mates will not be happy about that. I think that the agency is Staffline, not 100% sure though as non of them wear agency uniforms.
…I didn’t think there are any Ltd from April 1st…
My earnings for the previous quarter - have been rather high, including being flat out during January-March much of the time.
Remember, I do Nights, Weekends, and am not adverse to doing 12-15 hour shifts as required. I put in the hours, and my earnings reflect that.
Since the furlough payment is based on previous 3 months average earnings - It kinda makes sense for agency to be dragging their feet putting me on furlough pay, and at the moment I’m likely to be “Kept on at zero pay” for exactly three months before being given my next shift @ same venue, if they think they can get away with that of course. (Interview with DWP next week - they’ll bring me upto speed on my rights & entitlements here…)
It is thus very important that I start receiving furlough pay before that point, seeing as I’ve already been told that this standown is “indefinite” over the phone at least.
They’ve got no work for me, but they’ve kept me on - I should be getting it by this point. End of. 
If I attend this interview and get asked “When was your last shift?” - and I say “I’ve not had a single one…” then a further and deeper investigation is then likely to ensue, I would imagine…
There’ll be questions asked as to why my national insurance contributions have dried up, not to mention my employer ones…
^^^^^ End of Ltd rolled back one year. I think you’re missing the point about furlough pay; you’ll be paid 80% of your average wage OR a maximum of £2500 per month, whichever is the lowest figure. You may have been raking in the dinero recently but you’ll not exceed the magic two and a half grand.
Winseer:
the maoster:
Been told by an agency mate who works where I do that the PAYE agency guys can apply for furlough but not the Ltd Co guys. Guess Bogdan and his mates will not be happy about that. I think that the agency is Staffline, not 100% sure though as non of them wear agency uniforms.…I didn’t think there are any Ltd from April 1st…
My earnings for the previous quarter - have been rather high, including being flat out during January-March much of the time.
Remember, I do Nights, Weekends, and am not adverse to doing 12-15 hour shifts as required. I put in the hours, and my earnings reflect that.Since the furlough payment is based on previous 3 months average earnings - It kinda makes sense for agency to be dragging their feet putting me on furlough pay, and at the moment I’m likely to be “Kept on at zero pay” for exactly three months before being given my next shift @ same venue, if they think they can get away with that of course. (Interview with DWP next week - they’ll bring me upto speed on my rights & entitlements here…)
It is thus very important that I start receiving furlough pay before that point, seeing as I’ve already been told that this standown is “indefinite” over the phone at least.
They’ve got no work for me, but they’ve kept me on - I should be getting it by this point. End of.
If I attend this interview and get asked “When was your last shift?” - and I say “I’ve not had a single one…” then a further and deeper investigation is then likely to ensue, I would imagine…
There’ll be questions asked as to why my national insurance contributions have dried up, not to mention my employer ones…
Get your mp involved , bloke across roads bil has been laid off with no pay , bloke across
Road said there getting mp involved , told my mrs
Winseer. You keep blathering on about the injustice of the agency not giving you any work, and refusing to give you a P45 unless you ask for it yourself. But…
what does your contract with the agency stipulate?
Are you on a guaranteed hour contract?
Or, are you working on a “no guarantees-no obligation” non contract basis?
R420:
I am actually surprised at pierre and conor getting furlough pay from their respective agencies.
Why are you surprised?
Agency driving IS my full time job, and has been for a very long time, I’m not doing agency work to make money to pay the bills “in between jobs”, Im able to work full time for only one agency, on PAYE basis with a Swedish Derogation contract that guarantees me 24hrs pay, they usually place me long term at one clients site anywhere between 1-5 years, I was 14 months at the last site before being furloughed.
the maoster:
I think you’re missing the point about furlough pay; you’ll be paid 80% of your average wage OR a maximum of £2500 per month, whichever is the lowest figure. You may have been raking in the dinero recently but you’ll not exceed the magic two and a half grand.
It works out at a maximum gross furloughed pay of £577 per week, so if you regularly gross more than £721.25 and was expecting to get 80% of your previous gross you will be disappointed
Winseer:
the maoster:
Been told by an agency mate who works where I do that the PAYE agency guys can apply for furlough but not the Ltd Co guys. Guess Bogdan and his mates will not be happy about that. I think that the agency is Staffline, not 100% sure though as non of them wear agency uniforms.…I didn’t think there are any Ltd from April 1st…
My earnings for the previous quarter - have been rather high, including being flat out during January-March much of the time.
Remember, I do Nights, Weekends, and am not adverse to doing 12-15 hour shifts as required. I put in the hours, and my earnings reflect that.Since the furlough payment is based on previous 3 months average earnings - It kinda makes sense for agency to be dragging their feet putting me on furlough pay, and at the moment I’m likely to be “Kept on at zero pay” for exactly three months before being given my next shift @ same venue, if they think they can get away with that of course. (Interview with DWP next week - they’ll bring me upto speed on my rights & entitlements here…)
It is thus very important that I start receiving furlough pay before that point, seeing as I’ve already been told that this standown is “indefinite” over the phone at least.
They’ve got no work for me, but they’ve kept me on - I should be getting it by this point. End of.
If I attend this interview and get asked “When was your last shift?” - and I say “I’ve not had a single one…” then a further and deeper investigation is then likely to ensue, I would imagine…
There’ll be questions asked as to why my national insurance contributions have dried up, not to mention
my employer ones…
It’s not just food your missing out on windser , I popped into Carlisle t/stop , ordered a sausage roll & cup of tea , went to pay for it & bloke said , your stobarts arnt you , agency , that ok foods free , said can I I change sausage roll for a large breakfast & a pudding lol , I’m going in tonight , just changing shirt to get seconds ( only one meal per day free
But will be calling into Appleton / rugby tomorrow lol
Winseer:
Think about it: A firm can claim the payment from the government, and give that “taken on, and furloughed worker” - absolutely no work at all, and no intent to give them any, for whatever reason you see fit.
Such a claim - would then be fraudulant, as the firm is supposed to pay 80% of the average last 3 months earnings TO that furloughed employer… If you get rid of them, take them back, and then furlough them - their “average last 3 months earnings” - then becomes ZERO because they “left, and came back” -
You’re talking absolute ■■■■■■■■. Where did you get average of 3 months from? It’s not mentioned anywhere in how employers caculate the pay.
FROM THE LINK:
Employees whose pay varies
If the employee has been employed for 12 months or more, you can claim the highest of either the:
same month’s earning from the previous year
average monthly earnings for the 2019-2020 tax yearIf the employee has been employed for less than 12 months, claim for 80% of their average monthly earnings since they started work.
If the employee only started in February 2020, work out a pro-rata for their earnings so far, and claim for 80%.
So where are you getting 3 months from?
Also:
If you made employees redundant or they stopped working for you after 28 February
If you made employees redundant, or they stopped working for you on or after 28 February 2020, you can re-employ them, put them on furlough and claim for their wages through the scheme.
So how is any claim fraudulent?
If you took off that Comrade Worker chip off your shoulder and actually read what was in the guidance for employers you’d not post complete and utter ■■■■■■■■.
the maoster:
^^^^^ End of Ltd rolled back one year. I think you’re missing the point about furlough pay; you’ll be paid 80% of your average wage OR a maximum of £2500 per month, whichever is the lowest figure. You may have been raking in the dinero recently but you’ll not exceed the magic two and a half grand.
I’m not worried about getting the full £2500 but just getting anything at all would be nice right now…
Got paid for my last shift worked today… No Stamp paid. That’ll be my last unless and until I get proper furlough pay, or I can tell the DWP in due course that I’ve been let go with no furlough payments at all, so pull the rug from any claim made for the 80% at firm level… My average would be pretty close to £2500 IF calculated now and I’d like this done as a consequence asap, i.e. before it gets decayed by multiple weeks on zippo likely to be ahead of me without it.
the nodding donkey:
Winseer. You keep blathering on about the injustice of the agency not giving you any work, and refusing to give you a P45 unless you ask for it yourself. But…what does your contract with the agency stipulate?
Are you on a guaranteed hour contract?Or, are you working on a “no guarantees-no obligation” non contract basis?
I’m not moaning about getting no work - I’m moaning about getting no furlough pay despite getting no work, ongoingly…
My last three month average is rather high. This will decay very quickly if I’m on zero for a prolonged period of say, another 3 months…
Bu you still continue to ignore his question on what your employment status is and what your terms say. Until you post them then no-one can help you. I suspect like the vast majority of agency drivers you’re not entitled to any furlough pay.