Hi guys, do any of you guys know were i can get an idiots guide to the Working directive?
I`m trying to get into my little brain about POA and other Work how how to calculate the whole days work around it.
I didnt realise how little i actully know when it comes to this.
yours
Daz
Yeah, I would like one to, it the area of legislation I am weakest on.
Simple rules -
Only working time is relevant
Working time is made up of driving time and other work added together
POA and breaks do not count as working time
The maximum working time that can be done without a break is 6 hours
No break can be less than 15 mins
If the total working time in any shift is between 6 and 9 hours then a total of those breaks must add up to at least 30 mins
OR (not both)
If the total working time in any shift is over 9 hours then a total of those breaks must add up to at least 45 mins
The average 48 hour week is not for you to worry about - that is for the employers to sort out as they are responsible for the work you are given.
It is your responsibility to inform each employer of the work you have done - perhaps on a daily or weekly basis and to inform them if you are, or have been, working elsewhere within that employers 17 or 26 weekly reference period.
It would not be reasonable for one employer to guess what you are doing or did for another.
Thanks Rog, I understand those, the bits i have trouble with is for example:
3 hours driving, 2 hours poa,3 hours other work what break am i allowed, stuff like that
I would say ive done 6 hours work so 3o mins break?
Cheers
daz
Darren W:
3 hours driving, 2 hours poa,3 hours other work what breakI would say ive done 6 hours work so 3o mins break?
I assume we are refering to the minimum break
You got the 6 hours bit correct (3 hours driving + 3 hours other work)
Now take a look at what I wrote in my last post about what is the minimum break at 6 hours is
I`m Lost Rog to be honest.
I thought the 2 hours POA wasnt added to you working day?
this is the bit thats confusing me
Cheers
Daz
Simple Guide
Mostly ignore it and stick to the tacho rules, if you do this you will very rarely be in contravention of the WTD and nobody enforces the WTD anyway.
Not Quite as Simple Guide
Never work (driving and other work) more than 6 hours without at least a 15 minute break.
Shift has 6 - 9 hours work (driving and other work), break(s) totalling 30 minutes and interrupting the shift.
Shift has more than 9 hours work (driving and other work), break(s) totalling 45 minutes and interrupting the shift.
Maximum work (driving and other work) per week = 60 hours.
Average work (driving and other work) per week over company reference period = 48 hours.
Don’t bother with POA, just use break as it’s near enough the same thing anyway.
If you must use POA it is a period the duration of which is known about in advance either by being told or experience - i.e. every time you go to this place you wait 1 hour.
If you start work between 00:00 and 04:00 you are limited to 10 hours work (driving and other work) for the 24 hour period, beginning when you start work. Your shift can be longer than 10 hours due to break and/or POA.
Simples.
Darren W:
I thought the 2 hours POA wasnt added to you working day?
It isn’t - you are correct
That is why I said you were correct about the 6 hours of driving & other work being the maximum point for a minimum break
If you only did 3 hours driving, 2 hours poa,3 hours other work and nothing else then no break at all would be required as you can do 6 hours before a break is required
Darren W:
I thought the 2 hours POA wasnt added to you working day?this is the bit thats confusing me
Cheers
Daz
POA, just like break is added to or counted as part of your working day/duty time/shift. It is part of your working day but not your working time, they are different.
15 minutes other work
3 hours driving
2 hours POA
1 hour other work
1.5 hours driving
45 minute break
2 hours driving
30 minutes POA
45 minutes other work
2 hours driving
15 minutes other work
That’s a 14 hour working day/shift/duty time for the EU driver’s Regulations but is 10.75 hours of work for the WTD.
Thanks Guys, Ive be s’;@; my self over an assessment date as i was told i needed to know the ins ands outs of a ducks rear end and as the way youve put it, its not as difficult as some make it out to be.
but can you confirm one thing IF i do 4.5 hours driving not matter what i must have 45 mins break before i do anything else?
Cheers
Daz
Darren W:
but can you confirm one thing IF i do 4.5 hours driving not matter what i must have 45 mins break before i do anything else?
Yes. If you have clocked up exactly 4.5 hours driving without any breaks you must take a 45-minute break at that point, or begin a rest period. That doesn’t just mean before driving again it also includes before doing any other work.
Finally got the answers that i needed i knew i`d get them from you guys
Cheers
Daz
ROG:
Simple rules -
Coffeeholic:
Not Quite as Simple Guide
I like your one betterer (Leicester word)
NOTE:- Don’t believe anyone who tells you that you need a minimum break of 30 mins for 6 hours of working time - only 15 mins is needed
Sorry fore being an Arse…
But can you confirm if I work 5 hours and 59 mins its a 15 min break and if its 6 hours 1 min 30 mins break
what does 6 hours exact come under
again thanks daz
Darren W:
Sorry fore being an Arse…But can you confirm if I work 5 hours and 59 mins its a 15 min break and if its 6 hours 1 min 30 mins break
what does 6 hours exact come under
again thanks daz
You cannot work more than 6 hours without having at least a 15 min break
If you work exactly 6 hours and no more then no break is required
If the total working time in your shift is 6 hours 1 min 30 mins then you must have at least a 15 min break at or before the 6 hours and at least another 15 mins before the end of your shift - a break cannot be taken at the end of a shift
Darren W:
Sorry fore being an Arse…But can you confirm if I work 5 hours and 59 mins its a 15 min break and if its 6 hours 1 min 30 mins break
what does 6 hours exact come under
again thanks daz
6 hours or less = no break required
6 hours 1 minute will require 30 minutes in total.
The 30 minute break you are getting confused about is the total amount of break required for work between 6 and 9 hours but all 30 minutes do not need to be taken in one block or before exceeding 6 hours. As long as you take at least 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours the other 15 minutes can be taken any time between resuming work after the first break and just before the end of the shift. You don’t have to take the total required for the amount of work in the shift at the 6 hours work point, you most likely couldn’t anyway as you might not know how much work you will do. In the case of a long shift it could be you would require one break before exceeding 6 hours work and another before exceeding the next 6 hours work.
Same for a shift with more than 9 hours work, which requires a total of 45 minutes of break. Minimum 15 minutes before exceeding 6 hours work and the remaining time required taken later in the shift. That could be 30 minutes, 2x15 minutes or if you took say 20 minutes before exceeding 6 hours, 25 minutes later in the shift.
The important thing is never work more than 6 hours without at least 15 minutes break and to have the correct total amount for the amount of work in the shift, 30 minutes for 6 - 9 hours and 45 minutes for more than 9.
ROG:
If you work exactly 6 hours and no more then no break is required
Coffeeholic:
6 hours or less = no break required
Did I mis-read the regs AGAIN ?
ROG:
ROG:
If you work exactly 6 hours and no more then no break is requiredCoffeeholic:
6 hours or less = no break requiredDid I mis-read the regs AGAIN ?
No Rog, you didn’t mis-read the regs. Both you and Coffeeholic have said exactly the same thing, just worded it slightly differently.
Sorry for being a pain in the backside but i got two more questions that are buzzing around in my head.
1, If i drive for 4 hours 30 mins i must have a 45 min break… I now complete my whole shift doing other work If i do less than 6 hours do i need another break and if i do over the 6 do i need another break?
2 Ive been doing other work for the whole shift but my last 4 hours 30 mins is driving do i need to have a break if ive done less than 6 hours before i do the drive and do i need a break if ive done 6 hours hours work prior to the drive.
Sorry for the questions
yours
Daz
Darren W:
Sorry for being a pain in the backside but i got two more questions that are buzzing around in my head.1, If i drive for 4 hours 30 mins i must have a 45 min break… I now complete my whole shift doing other work If i do less than 6 hours do i need another break and if i do over the 6 do i need another break?
If you do more than 6 hours work since your last break you will require a 15 minute break for the WTD. Exactly 6 hours or less no further break required. The break required for the WTD before exceeding 6 hours work applies to any period of 6 hours during the shift, not just the first 6 hours.
Darren W:
2 Ive been doing other work for the whole shift but my last 4 hours 30 mins is driving do i need to have a break if ive done less than 6 hours before i do the drive and do i need a break if ive done 6 hours hours work prior to the drive.
If you have done less than 6 hours before driving you can commence driving without a break but will require at least 15 minutes before you go over 6 hours work (driving and other work) If you have done 6 hours work before you are due to start driving you would need to take at least a 15 minute break as the first minute of driving would put you over 6 hours work.
In terms of the WTD don’t think of other work and driving as different, they are exactly they same thing, just work, it’s only for the Driver’s Hours regs that they are different. So for the WTD if you are going to exceed 6 hours work (any combination of driving and other work) you will require a break.