Hello manual entries are required by certain logistics companies. So if u start your shift at 6.30 but you don’t drive until 13.00 you finish shift at 20.00 and you then have 4 days until your shift starts again.Do you manualy log shift start time or driver card insert time. thankyou in anticipation.
IMO it would be shift start time as that covers your other work activities or even the dreaded POA.
Im assuming its supermarket work and you are sitting about waiting on a delivery to be available?
Time you actually spend at work is what should be manually entered, both for your start time and the previous shift’s finish time.
Many don’t do this, but it pays to think of the repercussions of a tragic accident, where the law will investigate the ins and outs of the cats arse and rightly so, if for arguments sake you enter the premises (swiped in?) at 6.30am but never put you card in till 0700 and never do a correct manual entry for 0630, that could come and bite you and the company in the arse.
It gets more complicated for drivers who do other work at the company, say your 4 days between driving you did work two of those days but not driving, well you could be there an hour buggering about trying to enter those days manually, possibly all bloody day if you are cursed with a Stonebridge and still end up making mistakes, so in such circs i’d do two print outs at start of the shift, entering the correct start time manually but writing and signing on the back of the print out the details of those days in between, keep one safe and hand the other in.
As has been said you need to enter the actual shift start time and all individual activities until card insertion. With the newer VDO I would also recommend enter your daily rest.
For days of ‘other work’ I would suggest don’t try to enter them. Simply enter ‘?’ For those days (? Can be selected during manual entry) and then do a written record of name, date, start and finish times for those days on a printout. Multiple days can be recorded on one print out.
shep532:
For days of ‘other work’ I would suggest don’t try to enter them. Simply enter ‘?’ For those days (? Can be selected during manual entry) and then do a written record of name, date, start and finish times for those days on a printout. Multiple days can be recorded on one print out.
If it was me, I would enter whole days of 'other work, via the tacho, firstly because I reckon it would take less time than writing it on print roll and secondly because it saves you from having to carry bits of paper round with you for 28 days.
Unless I’m mistaken, you can cover the whole period(s) when completing manual entries. Just walk through the times in your head as you enter them. It’s what I’ve always done and no bits of paper to save and explain.
kevin0410:
shep532:
For days of ‘other work’ I would suggest don’t try to enter them. Simply enter ‘?’ For those days (? Can be selected during manual entry) and then do a written record of name, date, start and finish times for those days on a printout. Multiple days can be recorded on one print out.If it was me, I would enter whole days of 'other work, via the tacho, firstly because I reckon it would take less time than writing it on print roll and secondly because it saves you from having to carry bits of paper round with you for 28 days.
Unfortunately when manually entering data you cannot mark it as out of scope. Therefore, if you enter a day of ‘other work’ manually, your employers analysis system will more than likely create infringements for no breaks from work and also add the times to your weekly work and average work making an Admin nightmare.
If these days were non driving days then they do not add to your weekly work or average and do not require breaks.
For a non driving day there is only a requirement for name, date, start and finish times - that’s it. Although the print out method may sound lengthy and messy, it’s one piece of print roll per week, so 4 bits of paper at most.
shep532:
kevin0410:
shep532:
For days of ‘other work’ I would suggest don’t try to enter them. Simply enter ‘?’ For those days (? Can be selected during manual entry) and then do a written record of name, date, start and finish times for those days on a printout. Multiple days can be recorded on one print out.If it was me, I would enter whole days of 'other work, via the tacho, firstly because I reckon it would take less time than writing it on print roll and secondly because it saves you from having to carry bits of paper round with you for 28 days.
Unfortunately when manually entering data you cannot mark it as out of scope. Therefore, if you enter a day of ‘other work’ manually, your employers analysis system will more than likely create infringements for no breaks from work and also add the times to your weekly work and average work making an Admin nightmare.
If these days were non driving days then they do not add to your weekly work or average and do not require breaks.
For a non driving day there is only a requirement for name, date, start and finish times - that’s it. Although the print out method may sound lengthy and messy, it’s one piece of print roll per week, so 4 bits of paper at most.
I think there are some fundamental misunderstandings here.
“Out of Scope” has no relevance when making manual entries - The whole point of “Out of Scope” is to mark times (on the tacho) when the vehicle was being driven as not counting towards EU or Domestic Hours. It still counts as “other work” and that’s how it would be recorded when making a manual entry. There would be no reason to make a manual entry showing “out of scope” - you simply record “Other Work”.
Also, non-driving days do add to your working time (and thus to your 26 week (or other Reference Period) average). You should still be taking breaks for Working Time purposes even on non-driving days. If you make your manual entries direct to your card via the head unit, you will generate infringements if you don’t record the required breaks.
I read somewhere here on a thread elsewhere that even holidays count towards you wtd. This whole issue of not driving every day or doing other things like other work or no work at all for maybe a week or more at at times seem to make it a minefield. What if you didn’t do any work for say, a month? How would you cover yourself against any sort of infringement? I currently do agency work and I currently make a note in a notebook regarding date and just write ‘no work’ or ‘other work’… is this enough to cover me? Or would I need to do it on a blank printout on the back and put in breaks etc?
Roymondo:
shep532:
kevin0410:
shep532:
For days of ‘other work’ I would suggest don’t try to enter them. Simply enter ‘?’ For those days (? Can be selected during manual entry) and then do a written record of name, date, start and finish times for those days on a printout. Multiple days can be recorded on one print out.If it was me, I would enter whole days of 'other work, via the tacho, firstly because I reckon it would take less time than writing it on print roll and secondly because it saves you from having to carry bits of paper round with you for 28 days.
Unfortunately when manually entering data you cannot mark it as out of scope. Therefore, if you enter a day of ‘other work’ manually, your employers analysis system will more than likely create infringements for no breaks from work and also add the times to your weekly work and average work making an Admin nightmare.
If these days were non driving days then they do not add to your weekly work or average and do not require breaks.
For a non driving day there is only a requirement for name, date, start and finish times - that’s it. Although the print out method may sound lengthy and messy, it’s one piece of print roll per week, so 4 bits of paper at most.
I think there are some fundamental misunderstandings here.
“Out of Scope” has no relevance when making manual entries - The whole point of “Out of Scope” is to mark times (on the tacho) when the vehicle was being driven as not counting towards EU or Domestic Hours. It still counts as “other work” and that’s how it would be recorded when making a manual entry. There would be no reason to make a manual entry showing “out of scope” - you simply record “Other Work”.Also, non-driving days do add to your working time (and thus to your 26 week (or other Reference Period) average). You should still be taking breaks for Working Time purposes even on non-driving days. If you make your manual entries direct to your card via the head unit, you will generate infringements if you don’t record the required breaks.
Non driving days do not count towards the Road Transport Working Time Directive maximum or average working week. On non driving days the 1998 WTD regulations apply which give an entitlement to breaks, but they don’t have to be taken. The worker can simply opt out of the lot.
The reason I mentioned ‘out of scope’ was to try to demonstrate that non driving days are not ‘in scope’ of EU Drivers hours apart from for basic record keeping requirements for roadside purposes only. Entering them into the tachograph manually will simply cause problems with analysis.
Records of ‘other work’ for non driving days also do not need to be returned to the operator after the 28day roadside requirement.
andy_s:
I read somewhere here on a thread elsewhere that even holidays count towards you wtd. This whole issue of not driving every day or doing other things like other work or no work at all for maybe a week or more at at times seem to make it a minefield. What if you didn’t do any work for say, a month? How would you cover yourself against any sort of infringement? I currently do agency work and I currently make a note in a notebook regarding date and just write ‘no work’ or ‘other work’… is this enough to cover me? Or would I need to do it on a blank printout on the back and put in breaks etc?
In the UK we do not have to record rest days - days of no work.
There is only a requirement to have records of ‘other work’ days in a driving week.
A week with no driving at all, but you did work, requires no records at all. So if you don’t work for three weeks or just do ‘other work’ for three weeks and then drive the following week - you’ll have no records for the last three weeks. You can if you want but they aren’t required.
shep532:
andy_s:
I read somewhere here on a thread elsewhere that even holidays count towards you wtd. This whole issue of not driving every day or doing other things like other work or no work at all for maybe a week or more at at times seem to make it a minefield. What if you didn’t do any work for say, a month? How would you cover yourself against any sort of infringement? I currently do agency work and I currently make a note in a notebook regarding date and just write ‘no work’ or ‘other work’… is this enough to cover me? Or would I need to do it on a blank printout on the back and put in breaks etc?In the UK we do not have to record rest days - days of no work.
There is only a requirement to have records of ‘other work’ days in a driving week.
A week with no driving at all, but you did work, requires no records at all. So if you don’t work for three weeks or just do ‘other work’ for three weeks and then drive the following week - you’ll have no records for the last three weeks. You can if you want but they aren’t required.
Thanks for that mate, seems to make sense. So if I took my digi card out of the tacho say, on the 6th of this month at 18.20 but didn’t actually finish till 18.30, The next time I put my card in (Tomorrow for example), do a manual entry and go back to 18.21 on the 6th and set it to other work till 18.30, then to cover myself, set it to rest for 12 hours so it’s at 06.30 on the 7th, then select ‘?’ from then till I started my shift tomorrow? Assuming it’s an up to date tachograph with that option.
Jesus H. Christ, what a load of old ■■■■■■■■.
How much easier it is with wax charts.
Manual entry? Just a few pen lines on the front - sorted.
Been a bit naughty? Garbled excuse on rear of chart - sorted.
Not working that day? “Off” written on the envelope - sorted.
Thank goodness I’m retiring before I get a newer motor 
andy_s:
Thanks for that mate, seems to make sense. So if I took my digi card out of the tacho say, on the 6th of this month at 18.20 but didn’t actually finish till 18.30, The next time I put my card in (Tomorrow for example), do a manual entry and go back to 18.21 on the 6th and set it to other work till 18.30, then to cover myself, set it to rest for 12 hours so it’s at 06.30 on the 7th, then select ‘?’ from then till I started my shift tomorrow? Assuming it’s an up to date tachograph with that option.
I don’t understand where you would be using ‘?’
You’d enter 18:20 to 18:30 Work
18:30 to start of today’s shift Bed
axletramp:
Jesus H. Christ, what a load of old ■■■■■■■■.
How much easier it is with wax charts.
Manual entry? Just a few pen lines on the front - sorted.
Been a bit naughty? Garbled excuse on rear of chart - sorted.
Not working that day? “Off” written on the envelope - sorted.
Thank goodness I’m retiring before I get a newer motor
To be fair you get used to manual entries, and doing a manual to finalise the end of the previous shift, show rest between and start todays shift with the correct times is a one minute job.
However, having to go through say 4 days of other non driving work since your last driving shift, especially if that includes a change of month, and you’re trying to work that lot out in a freezing cold cab at 4.20am when the display is slow anyway, you’d end up making a right bloody pigs ear of it, i would too, and i reckon if you could do that in half an hour shivering and squinting at the bloody infernal display you’d be doing well.
I agree, its utter ■■■■■■■■, much better with log books, and arguably there would be nothing wrong with bringing back log books (personal to them and permanently theirs, maybe a monthly carbon copy for the office, this would cover WTD admin too) that cover 3/6/12 months worth of start/finish/break time, drivers responsibility to keep the log book up to date and it must be right and correspond with the tacho when used, with totals at the bottom of the page, this would make it much easier for drivers to keep tally of their hours, handy if they had a little note section alongside each day, driver could note vehicle reg/journey/unforseen probs etc in there as proof of what they did and where they went, help cover them when some idiot takes their (wrong) reg number and claims ripped their door mirror off or some such other battle we all have at some point.
And if you’ve got a 2nd gen stone ridge tacho just put card in then unit says rest till now and you press yes if so and bobs your auntie
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blue estate:
stone ridge
arrgh the dreaded words, grown men of the world reduced to shaking blubbering wrecks at the mere mention of that name from hell