I’ve looked at the regulations related to driving under EC rules.
At the moment it’s not an issue - only driving under domestic regulations - vans/pickups weighing 3.5t or less - but once I pass my LGV, will I be able to drive under the following conditions over a 3 week cycle? (only part time).
Week 1 - work 42 hours non-driving (between Mon pm and Thurs am). Drive under EC rules Fri (say for examples sake 8am - 5pm). Then have Sat and Sun off.
Week 2 - resume EC driving Mon - Wed - 9 hour day in each case. Then do 52 hours non driving work between Thurs pm and Mon am. Know that I cannot do EC driving the following week
Week 3 - Day off Mon (24 hours). Do domestic driving Tues - Thurs. Clock off at 5pm Thurs. Then do 24 hours non-driving Sat and Sun.
Back to Week 1 working pattern.
Is the above working pattern legal or have I omitted anything?
Will be doing all driving (both domestic and EC) with agency. Hope to be offered an LGV job sometime down the line. Hope that this is an acceptable means of picking up experience while remaining squeaky clean. At this moment in time all my work driving is domestic.
SuperLez:
Hope to be offered an LGV job sometime down the line.
Once you come under the scope of EU regs then you can’t disregard it willy nilly.
I’m confused ,you say this;
Week 2 - resume EC driving Mon - Wed - 9 hour day in each case. Then do 52 hours non driving work between Thurs pm and Mon am. Know that I cannot do EC driving the following week
I was going to try and explain further here, but to be honest i give up. It seems to me that you havn’t even a basic grasp of the hours regs never mind asking for advice over technicalities or grey areas,. I suggest that you read up the basic rules for EU and domestic driving and ask more specific questions relating to the problem areas for you. As it is now it seems that you are wanting the best out of both without actually knowing to much about them.
SuperLez:
Hope to be offered an LGV job sometime down the line.
Once you come under the scope of EU regs then you can’t disregard it willy nilly.
I’m confused ,you say this;
Week 2 - resume EC driving Mon - Wed - 9 hour day in each case. Then do 52 hours non driving work between Thurs pm and Mon am. Know that I cannot do EC driving the following week
I was going to try and explain further here, but to be honest i give up. It seems to me that you havn’t even a basic grasp of the hours regs never mind asking for advice over technicalities or grey areas,. I suggest that you read up the basic rules for EU and domestic driving and ask more specific questions relating to the problem areas for you. As it is now it seems that you are wanting the best out of both without actually knowing to much about them.
Should have been a good deal clearer on this one. If offered an LGV job, then this would be my “bread and butter” employment and then all the above that I’ve posted would then be redundant. A little more background - I was offered a full time job today driving a 3.5t pick-up - circumstances dictated that this was not right for me - but if it involved driving an LGV I would have accepted the offer on the spot.
Not wanting the “best of both worlds” - I am going for my LGV licence and aim to drive them for a living - want to pick up experience in between my full time job. I’ve looked at the regulations and I’m not 100 per cent sure if I’m working too many hours on “other work”. Some “smart arse” pointed out to me that I can’t put in the workload I’m putting in and at the same time drive under EC rules - I thought that I was clear on this one but now I’m not so sure. If this is still unclear, please pull me up - I want to make sure I’m not playing “fast and loose” with the law.
SuperLez:
[I’ve looked at the regulations and I’m not 100 per cent sure if I’m working too many hours on “other work”. Some “smart arse” pointed out to me that I can’t put in the workload I’m putting in and at the same time drive under EC rules - I thought that I was clear on this one but now I’m not so sure. If this is still unclear, please pull me up - I want to make sure I’m not playing “fast and loose” with the law.
You are going to have to detail them shift times as Rog says, from what i can see it looks to me like you can’t just slip in between the two sets of rules like that. I’m struggling to see where you get a break on week two i think it was. But i’m second guessing as its not all very clear.
SuperLez:
I’ve looked at the regulations related to driving under EC rules.
At the moment it’s not an issue - only driving under domestic regulations - vans/pickups weighing 3.5t or less - but once I pass my LGV, will I be able to drive under the following conditions over a 3 week cycle? (only part time).
Week 1 - work 42 hours non-driving (between Mon pm and Thurs am). Drive under EC rules Fri (say for examples sake 8am - 5pm). Then have Sat and Sun off.
Week 2 - resume EC driving Mon - Wed - 9 hour day in each case. Then do 52 hours non driving work between Thurs pm and Mon am. Know that I cannot do EC driving the following week
Week 3 - Day off Mon (24 hours). Do domestic driving Tues - Thurs. Clock off at 5pm Thurs. Then do 24 hours non-driving Sat and Sun.
Back to Week 1 working pattern.
Is the above working pattern legal or have I omitted anything?
Will be doing all driving (both domestic and EC) with agency. Hope to be offered an LGV job sometime down the line. Hope that this is an acceptable means of picking up experience while remaining squeaky clean. At this moment in time all my work driving is domestic.
It isn’t acceptable. Even though the work you’re doing is non HGV/Domestic, because you DO tacho work, you still need to comply with the weekly rest requirements which you’re not going to be doing between Weeks 2,3 and back to 1. You will probably also break the Working Time Directive as well.
Regardless of the fact you’re driving part time, other work you do in other employment counts towards tacho’d hours although as “other work”. You still need to meet the reduced daily and weekly rest requirements which you’re not going to be.
SuperLez:
I’ve looked at the regulations related to driving under EC rules.
At the moment it’s not an issue - only driving under domestic regulations - vans/pickups weighing 3.5t or less - but once I pass my LGV, will I be able to drive under the following conditions over a 3 week cycle? (only part time).
Week 1 - work 42 hours non-driving (between Mon pm and Thurs am). Drive under EC rules Fri (say for examples sake 8am - 5pm). Then have Sat and Sun off.
Week 2 - resume EC driving Mon - Wed - 9 hour day in each case. Then do 52 hours non driving work between Thurs pm and Mon am. Know that I cannot do EC driving the following week
Week 3 - Day off Mon (24 hours). Do domestic driving Tues - Thurs. Clock off at 5pm Thurs. Then do 24 hours non-driving Sat and Sun.
Back to Week 1 working pattern.
Is the above working pattern legal or have I omitted anything?
Will be doing all driving (both domestic and EC) with agency. Hope to be offered an LGV job sometime down the line. Hope that this is an acceptable means of picking up experience while remaining squeaky clean. At this moment in time all my work driving is domestic.
It isn’t acceptable. Even though the work you’re doing is non HGV/Domestic, because you DO tacho work, you still need to comply with the weekly rest requirements which you’re not going to be doing between Weeks 2,3 and back to 1. You will probably also break the Working Time Directive as well.
Regardless of the fact you’re driving part time, other work you do in other employment counts towards tacho’d hours although as “other work”. You still need to meet the reduced daily and weekly rest requirements which you’re not going to be.
First things first - at the moment I don’t do any EC driving - haven’t passed my LGV yet. Only drive Sprinter/Transit type vehicles.
I was under the impression that it was possible to work the two weeks in between the weekly rest period, but clearly not. WTD (which I forgot all about) probably nails any doubt on this one anyway.
Disappointing, but as much of an ■■■ it may be, the law is the law and there is no point in “cheating” - even if the experience would be valuable. On the bright side, another driver (whether he be experienced or a beginner just like me) will not be done out of a few shifts because of some “cowboy” operator!
This is one of the great things about this forum - greensticks like me can get so much expert opinion on the pro driving game. It’s just as well I asked for confirmation on this - I honestly thought that I would be driving under EC rules legally! Seems that I’ve been very firmly put in my place!
Won’t put me off going for my licence though! Will come in very handy!
There are more desk jockeys working weekends on agency on this forum and not one bats an eyelid to drivers hours.
Similarly there are a number of drivers on agency a long way from home who double shift on a daily basis “allegedly” and they don’t seem to bother either.
I think you would be better off getting your licence first and then get a job with a mixed fleet. I started seventeen years ago at a company driving rigids but they had artics and I then became holiday and saturday relief for the artic drivers. After two years experience it was easy to then get another job anywhere else because you can say you have two years experience.
Just my thoughts !!
I understand that there is a lot of a “shrug of the shoulders” attitude by some drivers and agencies to the driving/working regulations, but as I’m known to a fair few companies in my neck of the woods, I feel I would be taking a chance by driving illegally especially Class 2 as there is very little in the way of long distance work involved here.
Would love to pick up experience by these means - which I now know to be illegal - but what are the consequences if someone shops me to the commissioners or VOSA?
I was under the impression that it was possible to work the two weeks in between the weekly rest period
Is it just me that’s confused
It seems that I was likewise muddled - thought that it was legal to drive like this, but it has been made clear to me by other posters that it just isn’t possible. Seems you need a rest period at the end of each and every week.
Was just asking for honest advice. Did not mean to cause the world endless headscratching!
SuperLez:
I’ve looked at the regulations related to driving under EC rules.
At the moment it’s not an issue - only driving under domestic regulations - vans/pickups weighing 3.5t or less - but once I pass my LGV, will I be able to drive under the following conditions over a 3 week cycle? (only part time).
Week 1 - work 42 hours non-driving (between Mon pm and Thurs am). Drive under EC rules Fri (say for examples sake 8am - 5pm). Then have Sat and Sun off.
Week 2 - resume EC driving Mon - Wed - 9 hour day in each case. Then do 52 hours non driving work between Thurs pm and Mon am. Know that I cannot do EC driving the following week
Week 3 - Day off Mon (24 hours). Do domestic driving Tues - Thurs. Clock off at 5pm Thurs. Then do 24 hours non-driving Sat and Sun.
Back to Week 1 working pattern.
Is the above working pattern legal or have I omitted anything?
Will be doing all driving (both domestic and EC) with agency. Hope to be offered an LGV job sometime down the line. Hope that this is an acceptable means of picking up experience while remaining squeaky clean. At this moment in time all my work driving is domestic.
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week,but if you drive just one Journay you are Illegal as over the 60 Hour for that Week
Lovlyperson:
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week,but if you drive just one Journay you are Illegal as over the 60 Hour for that Week
Lovlyperson:
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week,but if you drive just one Journay you are Illegal as over the 60 Hour for that Week
Err…No.
All of that is wrong.
All of it?
Lovlyperson:
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
What’s wrong with this bit. You must average 48 hours so if you do 60 you are going to have to do less than 48 hours per week at some point to in effect pay the extra 12 hours back. Paid back might not be how it would normally be described but it boils down to the same thing, bearing in mind English isn’t LP’s first language.
Lovlyperson:
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week
Don’t see much wrong with this either. A shunter isn’t normally covered by the European drivers’ hours rules, no requirement for a tachograph to be fitted, so isn’t covered by the WTD as it applies to road transport.
Lovlyperson:
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week,but if you drive just one Journay you are Illegal as over the 60 Hour for that Week
Err…No.
All of that is wrong.
All of it?
Lovlyperson:
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
What’s wrong with this bit. You must average 48 hours so if you do 60 you are going to have to do less than 48 hours per week at some point to in effect pay the extra 12 hours back. Paid back might not be how it would normally be described but it boils down to the same thing, bearing in mind English isn’t LP’s first language.
Lovlyperson:
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week
Don’t see much wrong with this either. A shunter isn’t normally covered by the European drivers’ hours rules, no requirement for a tachograph to be fitted, so isn’t covered by the WTD as it applies to road transport.
I picked that up to Neil. But i think its safe to say you wouldn’t want Fred instructing beginners, shudder the thought that i’d half agree with Conor!!
I also thought that what Fred had written sounded right.
I’ll tell you what, Lovelyperson may struggle with his English a bit sometimes, but he is definately quite knowledgeable on many aspects of driving, loading & haulage.
Driveroneuk:
I also thought that what Fred had written sounded right.
I’ll tell you what, Lovelyperson may struggle with his English a bit sometimes, but he is definately quite knowledgeable on many aspects of driving, loading & haulage.
Hear Hear. Driveroneuk, I’ll second all of that. (I know, because I’ve had some PMs with him )
Lovlyperson:
The maximum Workingtime a Week for Driver is 48 Hour which can be extended to 60 Hour,but must be paid back.
What’s wrong with this bit. You must average 48 hours so if you do 60 you are going to have to do less than 48 hours per week at some point to in effect pay the extra 12 hours back. Paid back might not be how it would normally be described but it boils down to the same thing, bearing in mind English isn’t LP’s first language.
WORKING TIME. Which does not include PoA’s where technically you’re “at work” but just sat on your bum.
Plenty of jobs still well over 48hrs a week but taking advantage of the fact that breaks and PoA aren’t included in the calculation. I think you’ll find most people regard the time they’re at work as being from when they start to when they go home, less breaks.
Coffeeholic:
Lovlyperson:
If you Shunting,and not leaving the Base,you are not classified as drivingaround Driver,and could work 75 Hour,for exemple,a Week
Don’t see much wrong with this either. A shunter isn’t normally covered by the European drivers’ hours rules, no requirement for a tachograph to be fitted, so isn’t covered by the WTD as it applies to road transport.
They’re covered by the WTD as applies to the rest of the UK . The “normal” WTD specifies an 11 hour daily rest which you can’t opt out of as you can only opt out of the weekly limit. So at the most, you can do 67hrs a week (not including the 30 minute breaks you’d have to take for working over 6hrs a day) as there’s only 144 hours in a week, 77 of which, you have to have as daily rest. If the shunter was on nights, the maximum they could do would be 48hrs without any opt-out even though they’re not under the scope of the Mobile Workers WTD.
- and I imagine he will need some exact start & finish times for every shift worked during the 3 weeks
