So I walk into the agency customer this morning, to be told that a new bod from my agency is going with me. Fair enough, the job can be boring and someone to talk to for the day would break the monotony.
So I get the unit and trailer ready, and in he strolls about an hour later, and I’m thinking that this is a good start, as I would like to crack on because I’m only going to get minimum hours out of it anyhow, and this has now meant that I’m only going to get paid what I work, instead of knocking seven bells out of it, and getting back early.
So into the cab we get, and I say to him, “Pass me your card, and I’ll stick it in slot 2 for you” to which he replies, “I’ve forgotten it.” Anyhow as it’s not my problem, and I’m covered, we set off. We do the 2 drops well within any time that I need to have any sort of break, and I say to him that he can drive back to base, and I’ll put my card in slot 2, and stick it on break, which I do. (The fact he hasn’t got his card doesn’t seem to phase him as he says he’ll do a print out, which imo, he totally ■■■■■ up.)
Now because I’m in the passenger seat, and therefore can’t see the head unit, it’s only when we finish and I do a print out, that it has shown only 3 minutes of break, and the rest poa, have I committed an offence?
vosa will look at the first 45 minutes of your poa period to be a break as you are recuperating as long as you were NOT doing any other work, like navigating.
I think it defaults to POA when the vehicle starts moving for 2nd slot?
But, not driving, not doing other work, so what offence could you commit? 4.5hrs driving or 6hrs other work before a break required, if you switched before either of those, you can be on POA for rest of a 15hr shift with no offence
Quinny:
So I walk into the agency customer this morning, to be told that a new bod from my agency is going with me. Fair enough, the job can be boring and someone to talk to for the day would break the monotony.
So I get the unit and trailer ready, and in he strolls about an hour later, and I’m thinking that this is a good start, as I would like to crack on because I’m only going to get minimum hours out of it anyhow, and this has now meant that I’m only going to get paid what I work, instead of knocking seven bells out of it, and getting back early.
So into the cab we get, and I say to him, “Pass me your card, and I’ll stick it in slot 2 for you” to which he replies, “I’ve forgotten it.” Anyhow as it’s not my problem, and I’m covered, we set off. We do the 2 drops well within any time that I need to have any sort of break, and I say to him that he can drive back to base, and I’ll put my card in slot 2, and stick it on break, which I do. (The fact he hasn’t got his card doesn’t seem to phase him as he says he’ll do a print out, which imo, he totally ■■■■■ up.)
Now because I’m in the passenger seat, and therefore can’t see the head unit, it’s only when we finish and I do a print out, that it has shown only 3 minutes of break, and the rest poa, have I committed an offence?
Ken.
is he legal , i thought you did printouts if you lost cards,wouldnt work,i didnt think you could cover yourself with a printout if youd forgot it,were sent home to get it,no matter how far away
The fact that it has gone onto poa AFTER I have put it on break, means that I have at least started a break, and the fact that it’s changed is not down to me, but the vehicle concerned.
Quinny:
But the fact that I had my card and used it correctly, means I have not committed an offence, which is all that concerns ME.
The fact the he had/hadn’t told the customer he didn’t have his card, and that they hadn’t sent him home is not my problem.
Ken.
Too right m8, let him worry about himself.
It’s an offence to drive without carrying your digi once it’s been issued, even in an analogue truck and you’ve never used it. This is what I understand anyway.
Quinny:
But the fact that I had my card and used it correctly, means I have not committed an offence, which is all that concerns ME.
You’re fine, he is the one with the problems.
Doesn’t look like you did long enough to need a break anyway. I double man every shift these days and haven’t recorded a break for getting on for three months now.
Quinny:
But the fact that I had my card and used it correctly, means I have not committed an offence, which is all that concerns ME.
The fact the he had/hadn’t told the customer he didn’t have his card, and that they hadn’t sent him home is not my problem.
Ken.
but he tod you,you then knowingly went out and let a driver drive you round without a card in[forgot it],what happens if your stopped,would you just say is fine mr vosa ,my cards in slot 2,im not bothered what the driver does,i wonder how the company would view it,they send a double manned truck out and then it gets pulled with a driver driving with no card as he left it at home,the other driver who knew this decides instead of telling them,putting in his card and driving just sits there and says its not my problem,maybe youd be fine,i dont know,but i wouldnt of left the yard knowing my mate for night had no card,id of told him to tell them he just realised hed forgot his card,whipped home to get it,or just told them to get me a driver who has one.
it sounds dodgy to me to be driving round in a truck with no card in or not,its obvious to mr vosa you knew there wasnt one in
wheres geebe[vosa bloke on here],id be intrested to here his views,you maybe right ,your cards in,other lads in ■■■■,but id like to here it from horses mouth,how theyd view it,what action theyd take
I have acted within the law by using MY card correctly, so therefore I have committed NO offence.
The fact is he has not got his card and decided to drive without it means HE has committed an offence, and whether he has told the company or not, again is not MY problem. What do you expect me to do? Walk around holding the frikkin guys hand and change his nappy. FFS.
I have acted within the law by using MY card correctly, so therefore I have committed NO offence.
The fact is he has not got his card and decided to drive without it means HE has committed an offence, and whether he has told the company or not, again is not MY problem. What do you expect me to do? Walk around holding the frikkin guys hand and change his nappy. FFS.
Grahamy:
Personally i wouldn’t of let him drive , that way you can’t get done for anything
Quinny can’t get done for anything anyway, he is legal, the other bloke forgot his card which is £200 for not carrying, then driving without card might be another £120. Lets hope he got a full shift in
I have acted within the law by using MY card correctly, so therefore I have committed NO offence.
The fact is he has not got his card and decided to drive without it means HE has committed an offence, and whether he has told the company or not, again is not MY problem. What do you expect me to do? Walk around holding the frikkin guys hand and change his nappy. FFS.
Ken.
what do you expect me to do,walk around holding his hands and changing his nappy.
thats just what you did though isnt it,yiou covered for him by going out with him,you knew he had no card ,but you were still prepared to let him drive you around,as i say i wouldnt of gone with him,hed of either have got a card or the firm would have had to get me a driver whom had one.its called covering your back
Grahamy:
Personally i wouldn’t of let him drive , that way you can’t get done for anything
my thoughts too,why even risk it,all you have to do is get firm to get you a driver with a card before you leave yard.its not as though he suddenly came out with it half way through night,at first change over point,he said he didnt have one at yard,im amazed op went ,i wouldnt
I have acted within the law by using MY card correctly, so therefore I have committed NO offence.
The fact is he has not got his card and decided to drive without it means HE has committed an offence, and whether he has told the company or not, again is not MY problem. What do you expect me to do? Walk around holding the frikkin guys hand and change his nappy. FFS.
There is no doubt that the agency driver committed an offence and probably more than one.
If he even had a card in the first place, forgetting to bring it to a driving job cannot (in my opinion) be covered by doing printouts, although the phrase ‘not in the drivers’ possession’ is open to legal interpretation. By the description of the shift he didn’t follow the correct printout procedure anyway.
Now whether the OP commits an offence is an interesting question. Effectively there are three choices; use, cause or permit. I don’t see ‘use’ applying as at the time that the agency driver was driving the vehicle, Quinny was on the passenger seat, in my opinion not ‘using’ the vehicle. Don’t think he ‘caused’ the other driver to drive without his card, for that Quinny would have to have taken the card off the agency driver and then made him drive. Which leaves us with ‘permit.’ this often seen as ‘turning a blind eye’ to an offence. I’m not sure that such a charge would pass the ‘public interest test,’ think it would be a very harsh decision to prosecute, unless there were circumstances that we don’t know about.
Although many will class it as ‘telling tales’ I’d have been inclined to inform the operator and let them decide what to do. After all, they’re going to get prosecuted in addition to the agency driver, should the offences ever come to light.
