WTD has been in force for 13 years without a single fine, they may well start to target it but that will only give you shorter hours to work in. If you are paid peanuts then it will be time to rethink your chosen boss.
As above , and I recall when it was introduced , the minister in charge at the time said he hoped the legislation would be enforced with " a light touch "
A British politician went on record with that. What’s that tell you ?
And as my learned freind above points out , no prosecutions in 13 years .
The defence rests.
Jim
I’d read on Facebook one of the vosa men said they weren’t interested in wtd infringements on a roadside stop but would check and penalise operators during a site visit or compliance check or whatever they are calling them now.
My weekly hours are usually in the high 60hrs area but I spend an awful lot of time sitting around with my seat tilted back. I’ve never used POA but I do have it on break an awful lot (notable exceptions being when at German supermarket RDC’s). I’ll put it on break every time I’m stopped and sat around whether it’s for 1 minute or 1 hour and 1 minute it matters not, it all comes off the weekly working time. Last week I asked one of the office bods to check my average over the reference period and it was a tad under 40 hrs per week. I’m not worried about any crackdown.
I never use POA and only very rarely have any “waiting” time so only record 45 minutes (or less) of Break in any day. My employer uses Tachomaster so it’s easy for me to look at my times whenever I wish using their phone App. My average Working time (26 week rolling) is 34 hours, so I really don’t think this proposed crackdown will bother me 
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So basically just to sum up after my o/p.
After reading Tachograph’s guide to this wtd stuff, and assuming I COULD get done for continuing to not bother my arse about this stuff… All I have to do is watch this 6 hour thing, because the way I’ve already been working (ie. putting tacho on break when sat anywhere, and just ignoring poa) is sufficient to make things look after themselves on the 48 hour average score. 
Having said that though, my opinion of all this horsecrap has not changed, it’s purely a pa excercise to look on the surface that we are working sensible hours, where as in reality we are still working ridiculous hours in the 70 region. 
I’m with the OP on the 48 hour struggle. I use my driving hours website to record all my hours as printed on the charts. As an example even excluding poa and breaks my average is well over 50 hours calculated (circa 55 generally). With tramping and working generally 3x15’s and 2x13’s completing 45 hours driving a week that gives you only 3 hours other work available. That amounts to only 36 minutes other work each day during the week. Well the ministry allegedly want to see daily inspections of around 10 minutes and that leaves you 26 minutes a day average to tip load and secure. For me it’s nigh on impossible!
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Robroy, it’s rarely the first 6 hours that gets people, it’s usually the second one. Even old ■■■■■ like us tend to remember what time of day we started, the problems arise from forgetting what time our last break finished, thus leading to “problems” 6 hours later.
As far as I know, no plans to bust the driver, nothing listed in the fixed penalty scheme for wtd, but if stopped and it’s found that you’re routinely not complying with the wtd, then the operating may well get a visit and asked to explain why with possible further repercussions.
To be honest I don’t really see what all the fuss is about? It’ll only effect the average driver that drives more than 4.5 a day, by requiring them not to work more than 6 hours at any point without a break of at least 15 mins, not that Draconian!!
Same with poa, people get all upset about it, it changed nothing as break has the same effect on working time, the only reason I can see it exists is for drivers who are paid off the tacho and have all recorded breaks deducted, I’m sure they’re in a massive minority, but the powers that be had to make provisions for them, plus as time goes on it’s more likely that the tacho will be used as a timesheet, although that doesn’t mean they’ll deducted all recorded breaks.
Before the wtd drivers who get all recorded breaks deducted would sit around waiting on other work to get paid, but then that’d put someone at a massive disadvantage who wanted to maximise their earnings, because of the max of 60 and average of 48. So they brought out poa to allow them to wait whilst getting paid but without racking working time up, just like everyone else would sit there on break.
The only other benefit, if you’re bothered about your working time and short on duty time, if taking a full break now would mess up your day by then requiring a 45 on the way back instead of a 30, thus saving you 15 mins.
Other than the above 2 reasons it makes sense to actively not use poa as it wrongly resets your driving time on the tacho leaving you open to running over your hours or the hassle of the old school pen and paper!!
There’s no requirement to use poa, don’t over think it! Use it if it’s to your advantage, don’t if it’s not.
Thats why its so confusing for many drivers…having to work to 2 sets of rules…btw, do other european countries have the same ? Its ridiculous to have to work 9 hours with only a 30 minute break…or 6 hours with only a 15 minute break…the same as a legal 13 hour working day, can be extended to 15 hours…pray tell me who that benefits?..the bosses !! the same as a reduced rest period…although some drivers get easily peeved if they have to park up for 10 minutes let alone 9 hours.
I must agree with ROB, that i work to MY set of rules…so driving or not, after 4 hours i take a break…not a 6 or a 9…i dont and never will book POA…i did take notice when it first came in, and i used to ask.How long its gonna be …and their answer was usually `I dont know, maybe 30 maybe 60 maybe 2 hours…so i gave up, parked and put it on break…thats the easiest way to do it, and its always worked for me, sit in the cab…let them come and call me.
The 48 hours is an issue for any drivers that are responsible for unloading. Dis-charging tankers, crane work, walking floors etc etc.
For the RDC, pallet and container jobs it’s not an issue as all unloading can feasibly be break/poa. In the world of 99% cctv coverage if you are involved in unloading it needs to be other work.
In my current job we self load and are responsible for tipping. The company uses the 26 week reference period and many drivers have to slow down in the last 3-4 weeks. It can limit your earnings, you may get some poa but not much. Its not right as drivers we should be looking to max hours to make a decent wage, but it is the way the industry is. Clamping down on the wtd is going to force the money hungry driver (we all know one) to tip on break, how long to the first case of driver who tipped on break has accident and goes to jail…
I thought it was the companies responsibility to ensure compliance with the 48 hour rule? It was in my last ( non driving) job.
Everyones confused even vosa…watched a program today about the A1…anyway they pulled in a spanish truck and found the driver had worked for 7 days…so duly clamped him for a 45…but did say that HGV drivers are restricted to only working for 56 hours a week…strange that when the average worked is between 60 - 80…let alone sticking to the 48 average.
calsdad:
Its not right as drivers we should be looking to max hours to make a decent wage, but it is the way the industry is. Clamping down on the wtd is going to force the money hungry driver (we all know one) to tip on break, how long to the first case of driver who tipped on break has accident and goes to jail…
I remember when the WTD was being introduced and at the time the PoA didn’t exist. The company I was working at offered a 20% pay rise. Then the RHA and FTA proudly reported they’d managed to “save the haulage industry and on behalf of employers negotiate the PoA”. 20% pay rise went out the window and 3% was what we got.
If you want someone to blame for our low wages look to the FTA and RHA.
truckyboy:
Everyones confused even vosa…watched a program today about the A1…anyway they pulled in a spanish truck and found the driver had worked for 7 days…so duly clamped him for a 45…but did say that HGV drivers are restricted to only working for 56 hours a week…strange that when the average worked is between 60 - 80…let alone sticking to the 48 average.
Four 9s and two 10s would give 56 driving in 6 days. I’d guess that’s what they meant.
And if it’s a TV reporter saying it rather than the official themselves. . .
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truckyboy:
…but did say that HGV drivers are restricted to only working for 56 hours a week…strange that when the average worked is between 60 - 80…let alone sticking to the 48 average.
That’s my point about all this crap.
A complete cluster ■■■■ of drivers hours rules, running along side, and combined with, yet another set of rules that are not entirely genuine, but only there to display a good but false impression of the job, with drivers jumping through hoops trying to comply with it all.
Brilliant eh? You couldn’t make it up. 
Why not just simplify the whole ■■■■ shambles. 
I signed to opt out before i was allowed to sign my contract.
I can do 60 hours in three days when we have a lot on.
I think it’s all overly complicated, both the driving rules and the WTD rules that run alongside and have to be incorporated.
I can end up with a time sheet with over 80 hours a week on it, but actual work and driving add up to <25 hours.
We had one of ours pulled by DVSA, had a manual record of his in and out of scope driving hours, DVSA refused to accept it and he got clamped and a fine. Checked with RHA and they duly double checked with transport solicitors and we were in the right.
DVSA can’t even get it right
albion:
I think it’s all overly complicated, both the driving rules and the WTD rules that run alongside and have to be incorporated.I can end up with a time sheet with over 80 hours a week on it, but actual work and driving add up to <25 hours.
We had one of ours pulled by DVSA, had a manual record of his in and out of scope driving hours, DVSA refused to accept it and he got clamped and a fine. Checked with RHA and they duly double checked with transport solicitors and we were in the right.
DVSA can’t even get it right
Every now and then I’ll spend a week in the office to cover holidays. My card doesn’t go anywhere near a lorry in this time. However, I have to account for this working time. Rather than doing a manual entry using the trucks head unit, I use the manual entry feature in the tachomaster software. Bingo, all my working time is now on my card and no bits of paper with my hours on getting lost.
Concretejim:
I signed to opt out before i was allowed to sign my contract.I can do 60 hours in three days when we have a lot on.
I’ve signed to opt out of the speed limit legislation. I reckon it’s a snip at £350. The forms are on a web site in Nigeria.
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