Hi all, im pretty well read up (on a wtd book 2007) so i think i know quite alot regards the wtd and looked on other posts but cant find this.
Heres the question- can i work 60 hours week in week out every week? i was in the understanding that i could only do 48 hours DRIVING time but could do more hours every week proving it was poa! or does my average including breaks poa etc have to average 48 hours?
has anyone got link to the latest 2008 wtd so i can see whats changed?new etc?
It is an ‘AVERAGE’ of 48 hours a week over a fixed period of usually 17 weeks but can be longer with employer & worker agreement.
WTD is made up of DRIVING & OTHER WORK
POA and BREAKS/REST do not count.
This bit not sure of but I THINK WTD is a MAX of 60 hours in any one fixed week (Sun Midnight to Sun Midnight) - check on this with someone in the know please
does this help
ADD - Holidays count as WTD time as well so don’t go thinking that taking a few days or a weeks holls will sort out a high average.
another ADD - your DRIVING time is to be no more than 90 hours IN ANY TWO WEEK period
wk 1 = 45 hours driving
wk 2 = 45 - ok
wk 3 = 40 - ok
wk 4 = 55 - NO NO - 3 & 4 add up to more than 90
wk 5 = 40 - NO NO - 4 & 5 add up to more than 90
wk 6 = 50 - ok
wk 7 = I think you get the idea
Yes it does mate basically what i wanted to know was did poa count in the 48 hour rule?
I was pretty sure it wasnt unless rules had changed, but wanted to check as im going to start taking part time agency work from next week, couldnt take any this last few weeks (complicated), me and our lass have just had a baby girl she had a c-section etc.
bigcheese:
yes it does mate basically what i wanted to know was did poa out in the 48 hour rule?
i was pretty sure it wasnt unless rules had changed, but wanted to check as im going to start taking part time agency work from next week, couldnt take any this last few weeks complicated, me and our lass have just had a baby girl she had a c-section etc.
My daughter had emergency C section 12 weeks ago so I know a little of what you are going through
bigcheese:
yeah pal everything is fine now just had to play mum for a few weeks and i had to save most my holidays for now, thanks for your concern and asking !
Glad to hear that all is now well - upside is you got to bond with baby
Congratulations to you and yours on the baby bigcheese
Most of your question has already been answered, POA and break/rest don’t count towards the 48 hour average week.
You’re allowed to legally do a maximum of 60 hours working time in any week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday).
As far as holidays are concerned, statutory holidays count for the WTD but none statutory holidays don’t.
You are entitled to 4.8 weeks statutory holiday per year, assuming you work a 5 day week then you’re entitled to 24 days per year statutory holiday and this counts towards the 48 hour average week, however any holiday entitlement over the statutory 4.8 weeks does not count towards the 48 hour average and can be used to reduce the average worked hours over the reference period.
So if you’re lucky enough to work for a company that gives you say 30 days holiday per year then only 24 of those days would count for the WTD average 48 hour week.
Don’t forget that the hours you work fulltime in you rnon-driving job ALL count as “work” towards the WTD, and that whilst you may have “opted out” in your regular job, by taking driving work you automatically “opt in” again, as that is not an option in transport.
POA doesn’t count towards the WTD, but personally I just don’t use it. Any time which counts as POA counts as rest as well, so keep it simple and show it as such - unless your company tells you otherwise - some insist on you finding some POA to show.
You couldn’t work 60 hours of working time EVERY week, because you wouldn’t then AVERAGE 48. So every 60 you work one week is another 12 you will have to lose elsewhere.
Congrats on the bairn, btw.
(Ps. HTH, am away up the road for the week now, but I’m sure someone else can answer further if needed! )
Afterthought - Other Work counts towards your total as well as driving, which is why your day job will add in too. It’s only Rest and POA that you can subtract.
Lucy:
Don’t forget that the hours you work fulltime in you rnon-driving job ALL count as “work” towards the WTD
That’s not quite correct
Work done whilst employed by a firm not involved in road transport, or a firm where you do not work as a mobile worker count as “other work” for the drivers hours rules but do not count towards the WTD for mobile workers.
Mobile workers are covered by the Regulations if they are involved in operations subject to the European drivers’ hours rules or in some cases the AETR. Generally, drivers, vehicle crew and travelling staff of goods vehicles where the maximum permissible weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes or passenger vehicles suitable for carrying more than 9 people including the driver.
mobile workers who are not participating in road transport activities covered by the European drivers’ hours rules or in some cases the AETR (e.g. employed taxi drivers, certain van drivers, chauffeurs);
any drivers, crew, travelling staff who do not come within the definition of “mobile worker” in the Regulations (e.g. a teacher who drives a PSV on a school trip, that is subject to the European drivers’ hours rules);
passengers (e.g. construction workers being ferried to a building site would be passengers rather than travelling staff);
any worker who only occasionally does work which is within the scope of European drivers’ hours rules (see Section 1.3); and
self-employed drivers who come within the definition of “self-employed driver” in the Regulations (see Section 1.4).
For the purposes of the Regulations, working time is restricted to work for employers for whom a mobile worker carries out any in-scope road transport activities (i.e. work covered by the European drivers’ hours rules). It includes both road transport activities and any other work for such employers (for instance when a driver also works in an employer’s warehouse).
It does not include work performed for employers who are not involved in road transport activities (for instance bar work). However, such work would count as part of the “daily working period” for the purposes of determining compliance with the separate European drivers’ hours rules (i.e. bar work will impact on when you can work and how much work you can do).
bigcheese:
thanks for all congrats and replies, right so i could work 60 hours a week for example 45 hours driving and other work and 15 poa? is that right
Sure you can, you can do 70 or more hours if you wish as long as no more than 60 of them are “working time” and as long as they average out at 48 hours or less over the reference period.
bigcheese:
thanks for all congrats and replies, right so i could work 60 hours a week for example 45 hours driving and other work and 15 poa? is that right
you could do 48 hours of combined driving & other work every week as long as the other is either POA or rest.
The maximum combination of driving & other work in any one week is 60 hours but if you add on POA & breaks for which you get paid then there is the potential to do a 70+ hour PAID week
so tachograph you sound like your well in the know with the wtd so could i ask whts the best thing for me to do regards getting part time agency work around the wtd, i already do 45 hours plus overtime, so im guessing best option for me is to stop all overtime and do driving part time and keep my avarage over the weeks under 48.
bigcheese:
so tachograph you sound like your well in the know with the wtd so could i ask whts the best thing for me to do regards getting part time agency work around the wtd, i already do 45 hours plus overtime, so im guessing best option for me is to stop all overtime and do driving part time and keep my avarage over the weeks under 48.
thanks for all advice to ALL, much appriciated
A question and a thought…
Are you driving every week or every other week
If every other week and you opted out of the non-driving WTD then I wonder if the 48 hour average would affect you as you only come under the mobile worker WTD every other week… Hmmmmm…
If my memory serves me correctly you’re not employed as a driver in your regular job (sorry If I’ve got that wrong) so the WTD for mobile workers is unlikely to enter into the equation as far as part time agency work is concerned, but you would need to ensure you stay within the drivers hours rules which is generally regarded as far more important than the WTD anyway, and remember that working for your regular employer does count as “other work” for the drivers hours rules.
as reported in trucking magazine a review of WTD is currently underway in the euro parliament, which may see POA included as working time.
if this goes thru it cud spell the end of overtime
geezer:
as reported in trucking magazine a review of WTD is currently underway in the euro parliament, which may see POA included as working time.
if this goes thru it cud spell the end of overtime
I suspect you’ll find that many drivers will simply be having excessively long paid breaks
geezer:
as reported in trucking magazine a review of WTD is currently underway in the euro parliament, which may see POA included as working time.
if this goes thru it cud spell the end of overtime
I suspect you’ll find that many drivers will simply be having excessively long paid breaks
Watch employers put in the contracts - We do not pay for breaks
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