Wincanton is telling Stobart shareholders to wait for report from auditors on Stobarts liquidity before accepting any offer.
Also Wincanton have until 27th November to put up or shut up with an offer.
According to Motortransport.co.uk
Total newbie question this - whats the basic reasons why a big seemingly successful firm like this can go under? What did they do wrong? Were they bad for the industry (eg paying low wages) and what is the likely ongoing fallout?
whataplum:
Total newbie question this - whats the basic reasons why a big seemingly successful firm like this can go under?
How long is a piece of string? Imo there are many many reasons for big CO’s to go under, first and foremost would be overheads versus income. It’s all very well turning over a billion quid a year but if your outgoings are a billion and one pounds it’s only a matter of time before investors are wanting their money back.
Then we come to the age old story of companies formed by “the old man”, the old man is very hands on, knows every member of his workforce by their Christian names, ensures that when he pays out it’s for quality, be that service or goods, and he has a vested interest in the business succeeding. Very occasionally the old man takes a step back and lets his eldest son take over the reins whilst he keeps his hand in occasionally.
After a while however the middle managers and people with ologys move in. These people do not have a vested interest in the company and see it merely as a wage or even worse as a step up the corporate ladder. The money these type pay out for things that aren’t important to the core business doesn’t seem to matter to them so consequently they write cheque after cheque without ensuring that their actions are sustainable, after all it’s someone else’s money ain’t it?
Finally the kicker; I have no basis in scientific fact to back this up but without fail every company I’ve worked for that has gone from a good place to work to becoming one to avoid has had that transition occur shortly after employing a H.R officer.
the maoster:
whataplum:
Total newbie question this - whats the basic reasons why a big seemingly successful firm like this can go under?How long is a piece of string? Imo there are many many reasons for big CO’s to go under, first and foremost would be overheads versus income. It’s all very well turning over a billion quid a year but if your outgoings are a billion and one pounds it’s only a matter of time before investors are wanting their money back.
Then we come to the age old story of companies formed by “the old man”, the old man is very hands on, knows every member of his workforce by their Christian names, ensures that when he pays out it’s for quality, be that service or goods, and he has a vested interest in the business succeeding. Very occasionally the old man takes a step back and lets his eldest son take over the reins whilst he keeps his hand in occasionally.
After a while however the middle managers and people with ologys move in. These people do not have a vested interest in the company and see it merely as a wage or even worse as a step up the corporate ladder. The money these type pay out for things that aren’t important to the core business doesn’t seem to matter to them so consequently they write cheque after cheque without ensuring that their actions are sustainable, after all it’s someone else’s money ain’t it?
Finally the kicker; I have no basis in scientific fact to back this up but without fail every company I’ve worked for that has gone from a good place to work to becoming one to avoid has had that transition occur shortly after employing a H.R officer.
Sorry, probably your reply was due to the poorly way I worded my question. Rather than a looking general theme on why companies fail, I was after why THAT company has failed. I read briefly there were big accountancy cockups and also maybe that they expanded too fast and therefore had cashflow problems. I’m just generally interested if it’s down to ■■■■ poor management or more structural issues within the industry. I’m sure 99% on here would be like to see trucking jobs taken more seriously with much bigger wages and conditions (as it’s crucial to commerce etc) but obviously this would look harder to achieve if the industry is failing.
Telegraph reporting that Stobart only weeks from collapsing and have taken a £55m high interest loan (25%) can’t see wincanton wanting to take that on
25% interest on 55 million quid! [emoji102] I mean that’s just nuts. I’d rather let the firm die gracefully than be putting up with that ■■■■■■
It’s like you or I getting a pay day loan with 2000% interest or a credit card with 40% interest.
In answer to why they are in trouble, one way for profit road haulage on a national scale is horrendously competitive for very little return. It only takes small things to go wrong and you’re on to a loser.
Unless you run a lot of warehousing to provide the profit or have a stranglehold on a particular region.
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chester1:
Telegraph reporting that Stobart only weeks from collapsing and have taken a £55m high interest loan (25%) can’t see wincanton wanting to take that on
Here’s the link telegraph.co.uk/business/20 … -collapse/
Whataplum asked why Stobarts is in trouble. Truth is until the auditors release their report the banks don’t want to put any more money in. So unless a company has a big cash pile they need to borrow, which is where Dbay come in.
At present we don’t know how much trouble Stobarts are in ( but £200 million sounds like a lot of trouble), but Thomas Cook was a lot bigger and went under because the banks wanted more guarantees before lending them more money.
Tesco got into trouble for mis-representing their profits and some directors went to court (found not guilty [emoji56]) it’s taken Tesco a couple of years to get back from that.
Wincanton and others will be looking at to see if it’s worth buying Stobarts now and getting all the work or waiting to pick up the pieces if Stobarts goes belly up.
Most of Stobarts customers will be preparing back up plans, from working with administrators to keep things moving in the short term, to bringing in longer term solutions.
Also wasn’t it Christmas Eve when City link finally went under after many years of problems.
trucken:
I can imagine Wincanton would be interested in Stobarts work, but would they want to take on their debt when they could just wait for them to go under, and then pick up a lot of the work anyway.
Probably pretending to be interested in a takeover so they can see how much Stobarts get paid for each contract so as to be able to get a better idea of their own bid when the green and red brigade dont exist anymore 
The-Snowman:
trucken:
I can imagine Wincanton would be interested in Stobarts work, but would they want to take on their debt when they could just wait for them to go under, and then pick up a lot of the work anyway.Probably pretending to be interested in a takeover so they can see how much Stobarts get paid for each contract so as to be able to get a better idea of their own bid when the green and red brigade dont exist anymore
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if that was the case. They’ve already taken on a couple of big contracts that Stobarts were removed from mid contract.
I really wouldn’t be getting excited about the possibility of Wincanton taking on Stobart, it would be simply a jump from one pan to the next for the suppliers and drivers.
chester1:
Telegraph reporting that Stobart only weeks from collapsing and have taken a £55m high interest loan (25%) can’t see Wincanton wanting to take that on
Here’s the link telegraph.co.uk/business/20 … -collapse/
Part of the article… Scandal-hit trucking firm Eddie Stobart Logistics has been forced to accept an emergency high-interest loan to avoid a collapse before Christmas that would put more than 6,500 jobs at risk.
The firm is taking a £55m loan from investment firm Dbay Advisors - with interest charged at an initial rate of 25pc. The deal will give Dbay a majority stake in the company, saddling existing shareholders with massive losses.
The cash injection came after Eddie Stobart’s banks refused to lend it more money, as it grapples with a multimillion-pound accounting black hole.
One insider said: “If the deal doesn’t happen extremely soon, it could be curtains."
Auditor PwC is yet to sign off Eddie Stobart’s half-year figures. Logistics firm Wincanton, which is preparing a counter offer for the business, is waiting for the auditor’s approval before finalising an approach.
Nevertheless, on Friday Wincanton was granted an extension until Nov 27 to make an offer.
Best thread on TNet at the moment, loving reading the downfall of this outfit.
…"…
Former Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler said the Stobart Group is supportive of his proposal to save struggling haulier Eddie Stobart, despite the bad blood between the pair.
Tinkler told City A.M. that he was putting together a £50m package to save the business and said existing shareholders could raise up to £25m on top of that.
“Shareholders do take my offer seriously, and even Stobart Group has supported me on this transaction. They see what I am trying to do is preserve value for shareholders,” he said.
Read more: Eddie Stobart agrees £55m rescue deal as losses mount up
cityam.com/eddie-stobart-fo … g-haulier/
Tinkler was the former chief executive of Stobart Group, which sold trucking business Eddie Stobart to Douglas Bay Capital Fund (Dbay) in 2014, but still retains a shareholding in the haulier.
Tinkler stepped down as boss of Stobart in 2017- and then fought a bitter battle to eject its board and regather the reins of the company.
The campaign ultimately ended in defeat and was followed by a bruising High Court showdown.
Read more: Judge finds former Stobart Group boss Andrew Tinkler breached duties as a director
Tinkler said that he was able to work with the company’s leadership, despite the past animosity.
“We put that stuff behind us,” he said. “What happened, happened. The new chairman [David Shearer] respects what I am trying to achieve and supports my solution.”
Stobart Group declined to comment.
On Friday, Eddie Stobart recommended an offer from Dbay to inject £55m into the business in exchange for a 51 per cent stake.
The deal would need to be approved by shareholders at a meeting on 2 December.
Dbay’s cash injection would carry an 18 per cent rate of interest if the deal went through.
Tinkler said: “I haven’t talked to any shareholders yet that feel this deal is in their best interests.”
Sources close to Dbay said: “Dbay are the second largest shareholder – if Tinkler has a proposal he should make it. Eddie Stobart has been seeking funding and Dbay has been proactive and worked hard to make a proposal – so far it is the only one. At this his point in time all that matters to Dbay is saving the company to ensure seamless service over the Christmas period for customers and preserve jobs.”
On Friday, Eddie Stobart said it is likely to run out of cash by the end of December and could go bust if it does not receive support from its lenders or it is able to find further funding.
The company’s shares were suspended in August after an accounting scandal. It has still not published its interim results.
Rival, Wincanton, has also expressed an interest in a takeover of the company, but said it is unable to proceed without a better understanding of the haulier’s accounts.
On Friday, Wincaton said that without the release of the company’s accounts, “neither it, nor Eddie Stobart’s shareholders, can make an informed decision on the value of any possible transaction.”
Eddie Stobart declined to comment.
chester:
Best thread on TNet at the moment, loving reading the downfall of this outfit.
…"…Former Stobart Group chief executive Andrew Tinkler said the Stobart Group is supportive of his proposal to save struggling haulier Eddie Stobart, despite the bad blood between the pair.
Tinkler told City A.M. that he was putting together a £50m package to save the business and said existing shareholders could raise up to £25m on top of that.
“Shareholders do take my offer seriously, and even Stobart Group has supported me on this transaction. They see what I am trying to do is preserve value for shareholders,” he said.
Read more: Eddie Stobart agrees £55m rescue deal as losses mount up
cityam.com/eddie-stobart-fo … g-haulier/Tinkler was the former chief executive of Stobart Group, which sold trucking business Eddie Stobart to Douglas Bay Capital Fund (Dbay) in 2014, but still retains a shareholding in the haulier.
Tinkler stepped down as boss of Stobart in 2017- and then fought a bitter battle to eject its board and regather the reins of the company.
The campaign ultimately ended in defeat and was followed by a bruising High Court showdown.
Read more: Judge finds former Stobart Group boss Andrew Tinkler breached duties as a director
Tinkler said that he was able to work with the company’s leadership, despite the past animosity.
“We put that stuff behind us,” he said. “What happened, happened. The new chairman [David Shearer] respects what I am trying to achieve and supports my solution.”
Stobart Group declined to comment.
On Friday, Eddie Stobart recommended an offer from Dbay to inject £55m into the business in exchange for a 51 per cent stake.
The deal would need to be approved by shareholders at a meeting on 2 December.
Dbay’s cash injection would carry an 18 per cent rate of interest if the deal went through.
Tinkler said: “I haven’t talked to any shareholders yet that feel this deal is in their best interests.”
Sources close to Dbay said: “Dbay are the second largest shareholder – if Tinkler has a proposal he should make it. Eddie Stobart has been seeking funding and Dbay has been proactive and worked hard to make a proposal – so far it is the only one. At this his point in time all that matters to Dbay is saving the company to ensure seamless service over the Christmas period for customers and preserve jobs.”
On Friday, Eddie Stobart said it is likely to run out of cash by the end of December and could go bust if it does not receive support from its lenders or it is able to find further funding.
The company’s shares were suspended in August after an accounting scandal. It has still not published its interim results.
Rival, Wincanton, has also expressed an interest in a takeover of the company, but said it is unable to proceed without a better understanding of the haulier’s accounts.
On Friday, Wincaton said that without the release of the company’s accounts, “neither it, nor Eddie Stobart’s shareholders, can make an informed decision on the value of any possible transaction.”
Eddie Stobart declined to comment.
Chester…
Correct me if I’m wrong but my jedi senses tell me that your maybe a former employee…?
Or a disgruntled spotter perhaps?[emoji38]
Love em or hate em, ALOT of jobs at stake [emoji20]
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A lot of jobs and haulage company’s were lost on Stobarts rise to the top.
ye reap what ye sow
From the days of the helicopter stand-off in the yard when Norbert and Eddie were squaring up, it appears that Eddie may have come second best as Sebastien Desreumaux takes over as Chief Executive Officer. He was former Norbert TDG and then XPO and quite likely head hunted by Tinkler and his pals to further grind the Mormon Church down.
Of course none of this is true apart from the fact that Sebastien Desreumaux has just appeared on all the latest paperwork that Wincanton are studying. 14/11/2019
Smoke and Mirrors 
This won’t be popular (which is a change from my normal posting which is widely enjoyed by the whole TN membership).
But I really hope they don’t go under. And that they continue to operate. I’ve never driven for them. Not even on the agency. And I probably never will. And I’ve not been around long enough to know the full history as to why they are hated quite so much.
But they are perhaps the most well known haulage firm for the general public. The TV show whilst not to my tastes normalised trucking and made people see drivers as more than thuggish fat blokes who are simple minded.
They are also one of the few companies who will happily give a brand new driver a propper job. They will pay for your induction, which involves more than a shrug of the shoulders, some keys a bit of paperwork and wondering around the yard trying to find a unit and hoping for the best.
Finally - if they do go under it will be a concern for all the actual drivers who are just trying to put food on the table. This near Chrismas… No one deserves that. Yes the same stuff will need to be moved and they will get other jobs - but many people don’t want that stress.
So overall - I home to continue to see the green machine rolling down the motorways, on bays and the blokes dressed in the overly formal uniform. I wish them the best of luck. If they are taken over it would be a shame to lose an iconic haulier which is so well known to the public. So I hope the brand remains.
sammym:
This won’t be popular (which is a change from my normal posting which is widely enjoyed by the whole TN membership).But I really hope they don’t go under. And that they continue to operate. I’ve never driven for them. Not even on the agency. And I probably never will. And I’ve not been around long enough to know the full history as to why they are hated quite so much.
But they are perhaps the most well known haulage firm for the general public. The TV show whilst not to my tastes normalised trucking and made people see drivers as more than thuggish fat blokes who are simple minded.
They are also one of the few companies who will happily give a brand new driver a propper job. They will pay for your induction, which involves more than a shrug of the shoulders, some keys a bit of paperwork and wondering around the yard trying to find a unit and hoping for the best.
Finally - if they do go under it will be a concern for all the actual drivers who are just trying to put food on the table. This near Chrismas… No one deserves that. Yes the same stuff will need to be moved and they will get other jobs - but many people don’t want that stress.
So overall - I home to continue to see the green machine rolling down the motorways, on bays and the blokes dressed in the overly formal uniform. I wish them the best of luck. If they are taken over it would be a shame to lose an iconic haulier which is so well known to the public. So I hope the brand remains.
The problem is that the livery is being pulled off as quick as the wool is pulled over everyones eyes.
WS are registering more and more units, building and leasing more properties and advertising for new drivers for new and original contracts…
Smoke and Mirrors.
Do a Google search for this sentence: “the butcher the prostitute and the hotel”
Wheel Nut:
sammym:
This won’t be popular (which is a change from my normal posting which is widely enjoyed by the whole TN membership).But I really hope they don’t go under. And that they continue to operate. I’ve never driven for them. Not even on the agency. And I probably never will. And I’ve not been around long enough to know the full history as to why they are hated quite so much.
But they are perhaps the most well known haulage firm for the general public. The TV show whilst not to my tastes normalised trucking and made people see drivers as more than thuggish fat blokes who are simple minded.
They are also one of the few companies who will happily give a brand new driver a propper job. They will pay for your induction, which involves more than a shrug of the shoulders, some keys a bit of paperwork and wondering around the yard trying to find a unit and hoping for the best.
Finally - if they do go under it will be a concern for all the actual drivers who are just trying to put food on the table. This near Chrismas… No one deserves that. Yes the same stuff will need to be moved and they will get other jobs - but many people don’t want that stress.
So overall - I home to continue to see the green machine rolling down the motorways, on bays and the blokes dressed in the overly formal uniform. I wish them the best of luck. If they are taken over it would be a shame to lose an iconic haulier which is so well known to the public. So I hope the brand remains.
The problem is that the livery is being pulled off as quick as the wool is pulled over everyones eyes.
WS are registering more and more units, building and leasing more properties and advertising for new drivers for new and original contracts…
Smoke and Mirrors.
Do a Google search for this sentence: “the butcher the prostitute and the hotel”
google.com/url?sa=t&source= … 4112098278
It does indeed, and in the manner with which I’d suspected and hoped for it to do so, let’s hope it does actually come to fruition [emoji106]
Fingers crossed William will be securely appointed and he and Mr tinkles will be giving psalm 133 ago.
Best they get the lot back on track sharpish, coz if it had been my family name over the doors I’d have been hell bent keeping it so, but as you say wheel nut it also seems there’s been some clever smoke and mirrors going on, let’s hope it’s all been for the greater good for all concerned employment wise atleast…
And for the spotters too, I dread to think how many may have caved due to all this [emoji17]
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I really hope they hold the line for a while…
I got my assessment next week and it’s been my dream to drive for them since deciding to get my license done.
Even if it’s only a week that I will drive for them before they disappear…