A3’s and Leon Fr’s/Cupra always seem to attract the racers no matter where in Europe…
AndrewG:
A3’s and Leon Fr’s/Cupra always seem to attract the racers no matter where in Europe…
Mk 2 ■■■■■■’s for me and my (then) idiot mates Andrew. The engine/brakes/suspension/175 tyres were on reflection quite pathetic, but the equivalents today are similar to what you point out.
But 130 bhp with good suspension and much better brakes than what we had can cause far higher speed collisions than in our day.
For my own opinion, I think the police & councils need to engage with the youngsters and even need to find a way of supporting track days etc to encourage them to get their kicks away from public areas/roads.
This then brings us on to money. Who would pay for this engagement? And IF the police were aware of late night racing, would they then cite the budget cuts?.. No easy answers.
As always in tragic circumstances there are lessons to be learnt, this crash in particular saddens me deeply as it appears to be a ’ perfect storm ’ of contributing factors and timing.
Very well put beaver but the big problem is most do not learn. These types of accidents could happen probably 50 times or more everyday but do not because nothing unexpected happens.
Drivers not driving to the conditions, drivers speeding, drivers driving too close, drivers not paying attention to their driving, drivers too tired to drive, drivers thinking it will never happen to them and it goes on but thankfully the ‘perfect storm’ does not happen every time a driver does something wrong.
Unfortunately most learn the hard way.
Juddian:
eagerbeaver:
Juddian:
(Thanks J).
Welcome mate.
Black ice? was a hell of bloody frost in the midlands last night.
Had been gritted 8 hours prior apparently.
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AndrewG:
A3’s and Leon Fr’s/Cupra always seem to attract the racers no matter where in Europe…
‘Racers’ are nothing new on the roads but generally historically took the ‘sport’ well away from populated areas and 30-40 mph city streets and realised that bends and high speeds on public roads don’t mix.Therefore no need for mid engine or 4 x 4 which just means that it will probably be going much quicker when it arrives at the scene of the accident when it inevitably let’s go.Or silly over powered,light weight, short wheelbase,fwd designs in which excessive low speed acceleration and handling flaws like lack of directional stability,power under steer and lift off over steer are taken to insane levels.
Also political correctness probably won’t allow any ‘comparison’ of the scene and driving skills of the 1960’s/70’s v that of the common demographic in recent years in areas like the Midlands.
eagerbeaver:
Mk 2 ■■■■■■’s for me and my (then) idiot mates Andrew. The engine/brakes/suspension/175 tyres were on reflection quite pathetic, but the equivalents today are similar to what you point out.But 130 bhp with good suspension and much better brakes than what we had can cause far higher speed collisions than in our day.
For my own opinion, I think the police & councils need to engage with the youngsters and even need to find a way of supporting track days etc to encourage them to get their kicks away from public areas/roads.
A mixture of mostly the usual old school Brit or some Euro import 6 cylinder suspects.Or the lucky ones who could afford American V8’s.Or sometimes hybrids of Brit and American like small block converted V8 Zodiacs and Crestas/Ventoras in my day.
On that note street racing historically was usually the result of lack of access to off road venues.To the point now where suitable places are either targetted for development if not subjected to silly rules and usually closed for use.IE it’s reasonable bet that a massive percentage of the problem could be removed by relaxing the rules and access to track day venues on the basis of no need for official organisation and participants take part at their own risk and only timed laps involving only one car at a time allowed on track.Instead of which health and safety and strictly controlled organisation is taken to stupid levels to the point of removing any chance of what’s needed in the form of just turn up on weekends or week day evenings and set a time thereby satisfying all the competitive pressures both mechanical and driving without putting the public at risk.
eagerbeaver:
AndrewG:
A3’s and Leon Fr’s/Cupra always seem to attract the racers no matter where in Europe…Mk 2 ■■■■■■’s for me and my (then) idiot mates Andrew. The engine/brakes/suspension/175 tyres were on reflection quite pathetic, but the equivalents today are similar to what you point out.
But 130 bhp with good suspension and much better brakes than what we had can cause far higher speed collisions than in our day.
For my own opinion, I think the police & councils need to engage with the youngsters and even need to find a way of supporting track days etc to encourage them to get their kicks away from public areas/roads.
This then brings us on to money. Who would pay for this engagement? And IF the police were aware of late night racing, would they then cite the budget cuts?.. No easy answers.
Agree mate, track days is where the racing should be but we all know it will and has always been the road for many. Youtube is a prime example of stupidity on the roads.
As you mention, 130hp especially the PD diesels as in many A3’s and Leons are a pretty quick car, the VAG followers are big in number, nothing wrong in that but it does seem to attract the idiots in car circles…
The taxi driver killed in the accident has been named as a man with six children including a three year old girl who’s birthday is tomorrow 
I used to work mobile security in Bham and this road as well as others have always been a bit of a race track unfortunately, not saying this is the cause however, little as been done over the years to cull any speed on these roads at night, ok during the day its usually that busy that it controls any speeders, always been an unofficial race track since motorsport F1 similar held a couple of races there,
tachograph:
muckles:
What’s the speed limit on this section of road?Unless it’s changed recently, which I doubt, the speed limit on that stretch of road is 40mph.
There are speed camera signs up but I don’t think there are any speed cameras in the underpass, I could be wrong though.
Its been 30mph for about ten years
villa:
tachograph:
muckles:
What’s the speed limit on this section of road?Unless it’s changed recently, which I doubt, the speed limit on that stretch of road is 40mph.
There are speed camera signs up but I don’t think there are any speed cameras in the underpass, I could be wrong though.
Its been 30mph for about ten years
Different section, this stretch is a 40 its the one leading up to the roundabout off broad street
villa:
tachograph:
muckles:
What’s the speed limit on this section of road?Unless it’s changed recently, which I doubt, the speed limit on that stretch of road is 40mph.
There are speed camera signs up but I don’t think there are any speed cameras in the underpass, I could be wrong though.
Its been 30mph for about ten years
I’ve just checked on Google maps and in August 2017 it was still 40mph.
I don’t use that underpass very often but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t changed.
Franglais:
the nodding donkey:
eagerbeaver:
TNCSI Beaver verdict. 4 young lads in a black Audi A3 come round the left hand bend to drop down into the tunnel at 0/-1 degrees cold wet road in lane 1. Undertake the white Seat (who then hits the brakes and has hit another vehicle?? and then causes the vehicle behind to hit him in the arse).Because the A3 has altered momentum in an almost perfect set-up for a Scandinavian flick, he has lost the back end and slid across the non existing central reservation
and has been piled into on the nearside by a car being overtaken by a taxi.
Taxi & other vehicles collision has then turned the taxi over (unfortunately on the drivers side meaning the driver has impacted the road surface and I reckon it’s his passengers (probably not wearing seatbelts that were ejected).
I suspect the little Vauxhall Meriva type thing has pretty much got away with it as the structure looks well intact.
My suspicion is that the critically injured driver is the A3 driver (multiple airbags/leg room + being on the offside at point of impact) and his passengers/mates have all died. Obvious undertake at speed in an unsettled car for me.
On the radio news tonight, police are looking into reports of cars racing… seems you’re not just a pretty face.
So where do we go next?
Shouldn`t the cops have stopped street racing before this incident?Or who thinks any street racers should have been left alone and not “grassed up”? “Going a bit over the top ain`t affecting me”?
Any of you guys drive down the A1dual/M1 M-way (Eire) south just past J20■■
Clown boyracers reg come out of disco Carrigdale Hotel and do doughnuts middle of frigging motorway as plenty of black rubber tyre rings can be seen on road surface!!!
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AndrewG:
eagerbeaver:
AndrewG:
A3’s and Leon Fr’s/Cupra always seem to attract the racers no matter where in Europe…Mk 2 ■■■■■■’s for me and my (then) idiot mates Andrew. The engine/brakes/suspension/175 tyres were on reflection quite pathetic, but the equivalents today are similar to what you point out.
But 130 bhp with good suspension and much better brakes than what we had can cause far higher speed collisions than in our day.
For my own opinion, I think the police & councils need to engage with the youngsters and even need to find a way of supporting track days etc to encourage them to get their kicks away from public areas/roads.
This then brings us on to money. Who would pay for this engagement? And IF the police were aware of late night racing, would they then cite the budget cuts?.. No easy answers.
Agree mate, track days is where the racing should be but we all know it will and has always been the road for many. Youtube is a prime example of stupidity on the roads.
As you mention, 130hp especially the PD diesels as in many A3’s and Leons are a pretty quick car, the VAG followers are big in number, nothing wrong in that but it does seem to attract the idiots in car circles…
Boy racers can easily remap those cars with their laptops to 230/250bhp!!!
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tachograph:
villa:
tachograph:
muckles:
What’s the speed limit on this section of road?Unless it’s changed recently, which I doubt, the speed limit on that stretch of road is 40mph.
There are speed camera signs up but I don’t think there are any speed cameras in the underpass, I could be wrong though.
Its been 30mph for about ten years
I’ve just checked on Google maps and in August 2017 it was still 40mph.
I don’t use that underpass very often but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t changed.
Sure is. You can see the repeater ‘40’ plates on the lamp posts leading to the underpass.
Seems like the Audi was the cause and the occupants were known to the police,with one recently being released from a stretch for drug dealing…
google.co.uk/amp/www.dailym … -cars.html
RIP to the INNOCENT victims.
Jailed for 36 months in 2016? What was he doing out and about then? 
Pete.
windrush:
Jailed for 36 months in 2016? What was he doing out and about then?Pete.
Time already served on remand , and 36 mths will only see 24 mths served and if on remand for 6-9 mths could of been released in july if sentenced in jan 16 .
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xichrisxi:
Seems like the Audi was the cause and the occupants were known to the police,with one recently being released from a stretch for drug dealing…
google.co.uk/amp/www.dailym … -cars.html
RIP to the INNOCENT victims.
Well there’s a surprise!!
Not…
No sympathy for anyone who’s involved in selling that poison. Good riddance. It’s a real shame they’ve taken some innocent folk with them.