I passed it going northbound. He jumped from the bridge and had timed it ‘just right’ as the artics’ windscreen was smashed in with a body-sized indentation. Feel sorry for all concerned but more so for the driver. If you’re reading this brother, I hope you can take enough time off and get back in that saddle as soon as you’re ready. Do NOT blame yourself, it could have been any of us.
RD7:
I passed it going northbound. He jumped from the bridge and had timed it ‘just right’ as the artics’ windscreen was smashed in with a body-sized indentation. Feel sorry for all concerned but more so for the driver. If you’re reading this brother, I hope you can take enough time off and get back in that saddle as soon as you’re ready. Do NOT blame yourself, it could have been any of us.
+1
DickyNick:
damoq:
Can see the point if it was an accident. These need fully investigated in the public interest. But what good comes from investigating the road conditions, skid marks, where the body landed etc if it was a suicide. I don’t even think the victims family would be interested in this. Probably more bothered about what was so bad that the took their own life or weather they could have done something to prevent it in the first place.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because the police need all the evidence to prove it was suicide and that he wasn’t chucked out the back of a transit van, or thrown off a bridge which would involve other people and be murder. They need to evidence to be able to prove that beyond all reasonable doubt to the coroner at court.
Does matter what you me or the police think, you have to be able to prove it. Which is what takes time.
Understand what you are saying, but as said by someone earlier, BTP seem to be able to reopen a railway line in around 90 minutes after attending someone being struck by a train. How can they be so sure of the circumstances in such a short space of time?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
damoq:
DickyNick:
damoq:
Can see the point if it was an accident. These need fully investigated in the public interest. But what good comes from investigating the road conditions, skid marks, where the body landed etc if it was a suicide. I don’t even think the victims family would be interested in this. Probably more bothered about what was so bad that the took their own life or weather they could have done something to prevent it in the first place.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because the police need all the evidence to prove it was suicide and that he wasn’t chucked out the back of a transit van, or thrown off a bridge which would involve other people and be murder. They need to evidence to be able to prove that beyond all reasonable doubt to the coroner at court.
Does matter what you me or the police think, you have to be able to prove it. Which is what takes time.
Understand what you are saying, but as said by someone earlier, BTP seem to be able to reopen a railway line in around 90 minutes after attending someone being struck by a train. How can they be so sure of the circumstances in such a short space of time?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes that was me as I used to be in BTP. And yes 90 mins was the normal time and the job was done properly. So I couldn’t tell you why the motorway police can’t do the same.
Whatever that reason is I’m sure they aren’t keeping it closed to be awkward.
I’m of two minds… yes it’s a sad tragedy and my heart goes out to anyone who feels this way
But…
A former colleague of mine had a similar thing happen to him on the M62 a number of years back. He’s not set foot in a truck since so it ruined his career through no choice of his own.
DickyNick:
Cosmic:
I’m fully aware that someone lost their life. I stand by my comment that 9 hours closure of the M6 still cannot be justified regardless.9 hours probably is a bit too long. The British transport police get to a scene, gather evidence, and clear it normally within 90 minutes. That’s the target they are given by network rail to get the trains moving again, and they normally do get it done within that, and that’s all done properly. So yes, I don’t know why central motorway police group can’t do the same.
But it’s still an appalling attitude many motorists have when all they can think about is them being delayed when someone has lost their life, however “selfish” people perceive that to be.
When BTP get to investigate what at first sight appears to be a “jumper” on the lines, there’s typically one or maybe two (if the first driver didn’t notice/failed to report for whatever reason) trains involved. On a Motorway there will be several dozen vehicles in the immediate vicinity, quite a few of them directly involved, plus maybe hundreds more that have entered the scene before it has been secured. That in itself “justifies” closing the road for a couple of hours at least. The problem is that you only get one shot at securing evidence from the scene.
If it was suicide then I think he got what he deserved, I have no simpurfey for people that are that gutless that they cant jump in the river ,o no let’s ■■■■ some else life up,surpouse he was mentally ,still dont give him right to ■■■■ some one else up. coward that’s all
Harry Monk:
DickyNick:
Cosmic:
Closing the M6 for 9 HOURS for such an incident cannot be justified.Are you on the same planet?
Someone has lost their life. Whatever circumstances there are surrounding that whether they’ve taken their own life or it’s at tragic accident all you can think of is about how people have been inconvenienced and delayed. Typical motorist attitude to everything, no patience and as long as it doesn’t affect my journey then carry on.
Either way it has to be fully investigated.
The thing is, if life becomes so unbearable that one has to commit suicide then there are numerous ways to do it in the privacy of one’s home, or if the person is homeless then by hanging oneself from a tree. People who throw themselves under a train or a truck know that they will cause massive trauma to the driver of that vehicle and for me, this seriously detracts from the sympathy I would normally feel for a person in such a desperate situation.
I agree with Cosmic. Once it was established that he was dead and the chances of it being anything other than suicide were non-existent, the Police should have quickly photographed the scene, removed the body and re-opened the road.
^^^^^^^^
+1…winner
Harry Monk:
The thing is, if life becomes so unbearable that one has to commit suicide then there are numerous ways to do it in the privacy of one’s home, or if the person is homeless then by hanging oneself from a tree. People who throw themselves under a train or a truck know that they will cause massive trauma to the driver of that vehicle and for me, this seriously detracts from the sympathy I would normally feel for a person in such a desperate situation.
I doubt many people plan their method of suicide in advance and I don’t expect they deliberately aim to case trauma to the motorist that unfortunately hits them.
You will probably find that when someone is desperate enough to end their life, they don’t consider the effects their action has on others. It’s not deliberate, it’s just not at the forefront on their mind.
Harry Monk:
I agree with Cosmic. Once it was established that he was dead and the chances of it being anything other than suicide were non-existent, the Police should have quickly photographed the scene, removed the body and re-opened the road.
It’s not as simple as just removing the body. It’s not uncommon for body parts to be scattered over a wide area. I know of one motorway suicide where a passing truck had driven a few miles with the victims leg or arm (can’t remember which) attached to the truck.
Roymondo:
DickyNick:
Cosmic:
I’m fully aware that someone lost their life. I stand by my comment that 9 hours closure of the M6 still cannot be justified regardless.9 hours probably is a bit too long. The British transport police get to a scene, gather evidence, and clear it normally within 90 minutes. That’s the target they are given by network rail to get the trains moving again, and they normally do get it done within that, and that’s all done properly. So yes, I don’t know why central motorway police group can’t do the same.
But it’s still an appalling attitude many motorists have when all they can think about is them being delayed when someone has lost their life, however “selfish” people perceive that to be.
When BTP get to investigate what at first sight appears to be a “jumper” on the lines, there’s typically one or maybe two (if the first driver didn’t notice/failed to report for whatever reason) trains involved. On a Motorway there will be several dozen vehicles in the immediate vicinity, quite a few of them directly involved, plus maybe hundreds more that have entered the scene before it has been secured. That in itself “justifies” closing the road for a couple of hours at least. The problem is that you only get one shot at securing evidence from the scene.
This is why a motorway suicide takes longer than the 90 minute target BTP have.
A railway suicide will have one or two witnesses. A motorway suicide will have several witnesses who all have to be interviewed one at a time. There are only so many officers available to do this. Also the body may have been struck several times on a motorway resulting in a longer time to clear the scene.
Cosmic:
Closing the M6 for 9 HOURS for such an incident cannot be justified.
The police only have one chance to obtain key evidence to this incident.
It’s critical that all contributing factors are in place … 9 hours are justified to ensure so, all the evidence has to be collated in real time.
The Police, cannot go back in 6 months … the Coroner’s office will need all the evidential facts in relation to this incident
I am sure if you were driving the truck you would it swept with a fine tooth comb, ensuring all critical evidence was obtained.
That’s not true about interviewing everyone. BTP don’t even interview the train driver there and then. A quick first account or maybe even just details so you can take a full statement later. So that’s not why they take so long on the motorway. They aren’t good to keep it shut for statement taking!
Before you tell me I’m wrong remember this used to be my job.
I can’t tell you a reason why on the motorway they need 9 hours to investigate, but I can tell you witness numbers and statement taking is not it. In fact one suicide I did in BTP it was on a station so there were witnesses to get through but there was no need to keep the line shut for it.
DickyNick:
That’s not true about interviewing everyone. BTP don’t even interview the train driver there and then. A quick first account or maybe even just details so you can take a full statement later. So that’s not why they take so long on the motorway. They aren’t good to keep it shut for statement taking!Before you tell me I’m wrong remember this used to be my job.
I can’t tell you a reason why on the motorway they need 9 hours to investigate, but I can tell you witness numbers and statement taking is not it. In fact one suicide I did in BTP it was on a station so there were witnesses to get through but there was no need to keep the line shut for it.
Kind of different, a rail station normally has cctv on the back wall head wall etc … here is a pattern to the person and can be easily monitored so to speak … Stations, close down during the night … he juice is switched off etc … I always recall this time in 1999 my first day at KX as a station assistant an a girl decided to throw herself in front of a trian on the pic line … she was brown bread … literally juice off train jacked body out … train moved off as evidence … quick wash down and line controller then puts juice on line up and running …
Motorways are a different kettle of fish, you should know that being ex btp… it’s a crime scene until determined otherwise … as said prior, why would ey re open without all evidence obtained… you ex London BTP or BR btp??
DickyNick:
That’s not true about interviewing everyone. BTP don’t even interview the train driver there and then. A quick first account or maybe even just details so you can take a full statement later. So that’s not why they take so long on the motorway. They aren’t good to keep it shut for statement taking!Before you tell me I’m wrong remember this used to be my job.
I can’t tell you a reason why on the motorway they need 9 hours to investigate, but I can tell you witness numbers and statement taking is not it. In fact one suicide I did in BTP it was on a station so there were witnesses to get through but there was no need to keep the line shut for it.
Hah! I well remember one “body on the line” case that I worked on. BTP did such a sterling job of the initial interview with one of the drivers that it wasn’t until several days later that it was discovered he’d actually seen the remains on the track (and driven over them). This changed the timescale by over an hour, resulting in much hair tearing and re-investigation. Despite initial appearances of it being a suicide, it was in fact a murder (and the offender was later convicted. Still inside I think - but eligible for parole soon).
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
discoman:
DickyNick:
That’s not true about interviewing everyone. BTP don’t even interview the train driver there and then. A quick first account or maybe even just details so you can take a full statement later. So that’s not why they take so long on the motorway. They aren’t good to keep it shut for statement taking!Before you tell me I’m wrong remember this used to be my job.
I can’t tell you a reason why on the motorway they need 9 hours to investigate, but I can tell you witness numbers and statement taking is not it. In fact one suicide I did in BTP it was on a station so there were witnesses to get through but there was no need to keep the line shut for it.
Kind of different, a rail station normally has cctv on the back wall head wall etc … here is a pattern to the person and can be easily monitored so to speak … Stations, close down during the night … he juice is switched off etc … I always recall this time in 1999 my first day at KX as a station assistant an a girl decided to throw herself in front of a trian on the pic line … she was brown bread … literally juice off train jacked body out … train moved off as evidence … quick wash down and line controller then puts juice on line up and running …
Motorways are a different kettle of fish, you should know that being ex btp… it’s a crime scene until determined otherwise … as said prior, why would ey re open without all evidence obtained… you ex London BTP or BR btp??
I know it’s not the same and of course it needs doing properly regardless of time. But still, 90 mins vs 9 hours. I do think the motorway police could learn something from BTP and speed it up a bit.
Harry Monk:
DickyNick:
Cosmic:
But it’s still an appalling attitude many motorists have when all they can think about is them being delayed when someone has lost their life, however “selfish” people perceive that to be.The person in question did not lose his life, he threw away his life. What consideration did he have for the driver of the truck, for people who had sick and/or elderly relatives to nurse, job interviews to go to, aeroplanes to catch etc etc etc?
What you are doing is called “virtue signalling”. It does not make you come across as a morally superior person.
Dead on with every post you’ve made in this thread, Harry.
malcolmgbell:
If it was suicide then I think he got what he deserved, I have no simpurfey for people that are that gutless that they cant jump in the river ,o no let’s [zb] some else life up,surpouse he was mentally ,still dont give him right to [zb] some one else up. coward that’s all
Well your an utter bell end aren’t you
malcolmgbell:
If it was suicide then I think he got what he deserved, I have no simpurfey for people that are that gutless that they cant jump in the river ,o no let’s [zb] some else life up,surpouse he was mentally ,still dont give him right to [zb] some one else up. coward that’s all
Agreed.
My brother, a train driver, had a ‘jumper’ not long after he started driving. A rail worker jumped from the station platform as our youth was pulling in. It affected him badly but he recieved plenty of support and was back driving after a couple of weeks, what annoyed him was that the chap (being a railway employee) must have known the affect it would have on a driver. Apparently the chaps father had recently passed away and he couldn’t face life without him.
Back in the late eighties one of our OD’s had a chap throw himself under his lorry on the A38 by Swinfen Hall prison. The chap overtook him, pulled into a layby by the prison and leapt out under the truck. He had left home, hired a car one way and decided to top himself. They impounded the truck, still loaded with tarmac, but could find nothing wrong mechanically.
Pete.
TheUncaringCowboy:
malcolmgbell:
If it was suicide then I think he got what he deserved, I have no simpurfey for people that are that gutless that they cant jump in the river ,o no let’s [zb] some else life up,surpouse he was mentally ,still dont give him right to [zb] some one else up. coward that’s allAgreed.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+1
agreed also.
they might not comprehend it at the time,but if it wasnt cowardly then to square up and take it on the chin is the way to deal with things.
someone for whatever reason is a bit short of lamp oil at the time decides to chuck themeself off a bridge into the front of a truck and get splattered.
no brainer.
closing the motorway for 9 hours is nothing short of a joke.
they can work out all the peripheral details later elsewhere once the motorway is up and running.
some pics,some skiddies,fire engine out to hose away whats left down the drain and interview witnesses later.
just another example of plobbing ■■■ covering bean counters.