AndrewG:
Why would 90t gvw on 9 axles be a problem? Many other countries have higher axle weights than the UK, 12R/22.5 doubles could easily raise a trailer axle gross weight from 8t on super singles to 13t alone…
Its carryfast just let him go.
AndrewG:
Why would 90t gvw on 9 axles be a problem? Many other countries have higher axle weights than the UK, 12R/22.5 doubles could easily raise a trailer axle gross weight from 8t on super singles to 13t alone…
13 tonnes on each trailer axle. 
Meanwhile in the real world.9 axle B double 68t absolute max.
11 axle A train 85t. 
Carryfast:
discoman:
Carryfast:
B trains are compromised by the second trailer imposing a load on the axles of the first trailer so pointless for decent gross weigh capacity.While the Stan Robinson example shown was a proper A train type set up.While the double artic is probably excessive for general use here anyway with the Scandinavian type drawbar being the most practical LHV type set up.Which hopefully seems to be the way it might go if the pro rail lobby can be sorted out ( doubtful ).You do talk some crap, they have these in Australia , the A and B trailer A , both have tri axle trailers and GVM 90 tonne … there is no impact on the overall load capacity over the B trailers axle.
Let’s get this right.You think that a 9 axle B train has the same gross weight capacity as an 11 axle A train.
You need to think again about the difference between train weight v combination weight.In which the former is all about the fact that the towed trailer imposes no load on the axles of the towing vehicle/trailer,unlike the B train or close coupled drawbar type.
Maybe the 1000’s on Australia’s roads are pretend. Research it properly and you will see, they are not road trains go to WA or the outback where they are pulling 4/5 trailers.
Take a 45ft trailer max load and take a 20ft max load…l and drag them as one using a merc or Volvo… they are always pulling between Sydney and Melbourne. We assist the RMS in pulling the vehicles on for safety checks … same as vosa and they go between 70 and 90 tonne combined gvm
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
Why would 90t gvw on 9 axles be a problem? Many other countries have higher axle weights than the UK, 12R/22.5 doubles could easily raise a trailer axle gross weight from 8t on super singles to 13t alone…13 tonnes on each trailer axle.
Meanwhile in the real world.9 axle B double 68t absolute max.
11 axle A train 85t.
I will take photos and show you when I am next on duty…
discoman:
Maybe the 1000’s on Australia’s roads are pretend. Research it properly and you will see, they are not road trains go to WA or the outback where they are pulling 4/5 trailers.Take a 45ft trailer max load and take a 20ft max load…l and drag them as one using a merc or Volvo… they are always pulling between Sydney and Melbourne. We assist the RMS in pulling the vehicles on for safety checks … same as vosa and they go between 70 and 90 tonne combined gvm
I didn’t say that they don’t use Bs I said that a 9 axle B double is obviously limited in gross weight capacity potential compared to an 11 axle A double.For the reasons I’ve given IE you’re trying to impose the nose weight of another loaded semi trailer onto the already loaded to their max trailer axles of the lead trailer because you’re missing the other two axles of the dolly which ideally would couple them.While I obviously wasn’t comparing apples with oranges in the form of a two trailer road train with a 4 + trailer B train in that.
While I still don’t get what’s meant by the idea of a 20ft + 45 ft 90 tonner presumably on 9 axles ?. 
When it’s clear enough that 90 t gross is going to be marginal even on an 11 axle A train,let alone a 9 axle B double even in the best case of Oz.
Which is also why the Stan Robinson configuration is ( would be ) obviously way superior to the Denby one in terms of having the best volume and weight capacity.
While the 8 axle Scandinavian drawbar configuration would provide the best of both worlds in term of practicality and weight/volume capacity on our roads.Just as the four axle rigid and 4 axle trailer rules in NZ.Feel free to explain more if I’ve missed something.
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
Why would 90t gvw on 9 axles be a problem? Many other countries have higher axle weights than the UK, 12R/22.5 doubles could easily raise a trailer axle gross weight from 8t on super singles to 13t alone…13 tonnes on each trailer axle.
Meanwhile in the real world.9 axle B double 68t absolute max.
11 axle A train 85t.
13.5ton drive axle weights in some countries so yes 13t per axle on a twin wheel axle easily achievable. Im not saying this is whats done in Aus as im not familiar with their GTW/axle weights just that it is physically possible…
AndrewG:
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
Why would 90t gvw on 9 axles be a problem? Many other countries have higher axle weights than the UK, 12R/22.5 doubles could easily raise a trailer axle gross weight from 8t on super singles to 13t alone…13 tonnes on each trailer axle.
Meanwhile in the real world.9 axle B double 68t absolute max.
11 axle A train 85t.
13.5ton drive axle weights in some countries so yes 13t per axle on a twin wheel axle easily achievable. Im not saying this is whats done in Aus as im not familiar with their GTW/axle weights just that it is physically possible…
Over here I. Australia, it depends on how they run, old carry no it all quoted the ems of nsw … however loads run on federal plates … basically take a truck 1 steer axle at front … first trailer the 20ft sits on twin axle with 4 wheels, then the second 48 pallet space trailer sits on the 2nd Fifth wheel which has a triple each side plus the triple axle at rear
A 34 wheeled vehicle …
AndrewG:
Carryfast:
AndrewG:
Why would 90t gvw on 9 axles be a problem? Many other countries have higher axle weights than the UK, 12R/22.5 doubles could easily raise a trailer axle gross weight from 8t on super singles to 13t alone…13 tonnes on each trailer axle.
Meanwhile in the real world.9 axle B double 68t absolute max.
11 axle A train 85t.
13.5ton drive axle weights in some countries so yes 13t per axle on a twin wheel axle easily achievable. Im not saying this is whats done in Aus as im not familiar with their GTW/axle weights just that it is physically possible…
Permitted/design drive axle weights don’t translate into permitted/design trailer axle weights whether it’s Australia or Euroland or North America ?.The idea of a 9 axle 90t gross B double sounds nuts to me and probably too much for even an 11 axle A double as confirmed by those figures provided.Bearing in mind that Australia is more or less as good as it gets regarding permissable truck configurations.On that note it would probably be fair to say that the Stan Robinson outfit would logically be ‘designed’ for around 80t gross max in the real world.While it’s anyone’s guess what the Denby abortion could manage but it’s a reasonable bet that it couldn’t even handle the around 60t gross of the Scandinavian type drawbar.
discoman:
Over here I. Australia, it depends on how they run, old carry no it all quoted the ems of nsw … however loads run on federal plates … basically take a truck 1 steer axle at front … first trailer the 20ft sits on twin axle with 4 wheels, then the second 48 pallet space trailer sits on the 2nd Fifth wheel which has a triple each side plus the triple axle at rearA 34 wheeled vehicle …
It’s still only a 9 axle vehicle and no the B double fifth wheel coupling doesn’t have a triaxle ‘each side’ of it there’s only one tri axle covering both the rear loading of the lead trailer and the nose weight of the second trailer.So how does that translate into a supposed 90 tonner in terms of the lead trailer’s axle weights and the supposed load on each trailer.
While the Greenfreight B double again shows the flaws in the B double configuration obviously in the form of the compromised load capacity of the lead trailer.While are you saying that there’s anything in the regs there or even design that would actually allow that thing to run at 90t gross .Notwithstanding the compromised load capacity of the lead trailer to do it,as opposed to the logically expected figures provided in the NSW example ?.
Carryfast:
discoman:
Over here I. Australia, it depends on how they run, old carry no it all quoted the ems of nsw … however loads run on federal plates … basically take a truck 1 steer axle at front … first trailer the 20ft sits on twin axle with 4 wheels, then the second 48 pallet space trailer sits on the 2nd Fifth wheel which has a triple each side plus the triple axle at rearA 34 wheeled vehicle …
It’s still only a 9 axle vehicle and no the B double fifth wheel coupling doesn’t have a triaxle ‘each side’ of it there’s only one tri axle covering both the rear loading of the lead trailer and the nose weight of the second trailer.So how does that translate into a supposed 90 tonner in terms of the lead trailer’s axle weights and the supposed load on each trailer.
While the Greenfreight B double again shows the flaws in the B double configuration obviously in the form of the compromised load capacity of the lead trailer.While are you saying that there’s anything in the regs there or even design that would actually allow that thing to run at 90t gross
Unless, you have been here in Australia, or know all the state and federal regulations then hard to comment … all certified trailer have to show the certification for either HC or MC … ie different 45’ trailers … the unit states clearly GVM 90t capacity …
Whether you agree or not that’s the law here … so unless you live here drove here your statements are irrelevant as federal law dictates as such … also a kenworth drags 4/5 fully loaded trailers … check out Qube over here … they drag two 45f trailers …
discoman:
Carryfast:
It’s still only a 9 axle vehicle and no the B double fifth wheel coupling doesn’t have a triaxle ‘each side’ of it there’s only one tri axle covering both the rear loading of the lead trailer and the nose weight of the second trailer.So how does that translate into a supposed 90 tonner in terms of the lead trailer’s axle weights and the supposed load on each trailer.While the Greenfreight B double again shows the flaws in the B double configuration obviously in the form of the compromised load capacity of the lead trailer.While are you saying that there’s anything in the regs there or even design that would actually allow that thing to run at 90t gross
Unless, you have been here in Australia, or know all the state and federal regulations then hard to comment … all certified trailer have to show the certification for either HC or MC … ie different 45’ trailers … the unit states clearly GVM 90t capacity …
Whether you agree or not that’s the law here … so unless you live here drove here your statements are irrelevant as federal law dictates as such … also a kenworth drags 4/5 fully loaded trailers … check out Qube over here … they drag two 45f trailers …
It seems clear that the design and/or legal gross train weight of an 11 axle A double by definition has to beat the design and/or legal gross combination weight of a 9 axle B double.That advantage obviously continues pro rata regardless of how many trailers are added.
In which case can you provide any figures which would show that 90 t gross on 9 axles for example would be legal anywhere under any Oz regs.Or for that matter how you could possibly configure and distribute that much weight on so few axles without busting both permitted and design weights.Doubtful.
This is Classic Carryfast. I don’t care if you’re in Australia working in the transport industry- Surrys resident know all always knows best. Even if he hasn’t driven professionally in 20 years let alone a road train in Australia
switchlogic:
This is Classic Carryfast. I don’t care if you’re in Australia working in the transport industry- Surrys resident know all always knows best. Even if he hasn’t driven professionally in 20 years let alone a road train in Australia
No never driven a road train or even been to Oz.But I do know that the Stan Robinson design shown has a lot more load capacity than that Denby abortion.Or for that matter the Australian B double shown. 
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
This is Classic Carryfast. I don’t care if you’re in Australia working in the transport industry- Surrys resident know all always knows best. Even if he hasn’t driven professionally in 20 years let alone a road train in AustraliaNo never driven a road train or even been to Oz.But I do know that the Stan Robinson design shown has a lot more load capacity than that Denby abortion.Or for that matter the Australian B double shown.
The specs for trucks are different here in Australia … but, you know that … you know that all the federal government state is a lie because you make the rules … so unless you actually come to Australia and inspect said vehicle … then don’t claim you know all … take Luke, a European driver, I take on board what he says because.
1, never driven a truck in Europe and 2, he knows the job… still Surrey does have the 4x4 trucks huh.
discoman:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
This is Classic Carryfast. I don’t care if you’re in Australia working in the transport industry- Surrys resident know all always knows best. Even if he hasn’t driven professionally in 20 years let alone a road train in AustraliaNo never driven a road train or even been to Oz.But I do know that the Stan Robinson design shown has a lot more load capacity than that Denby abortion.Or for that matter the Australian B double shown.
The specs for trucks are different here in Australia … but, you know that … you know that all the federal government state is a lie because you make the rules … so unless you actually come to Australia and inspect said vehicle … then don’t claim you know all … take Luke, a European driver, I take on board what he says because.
1, never driven a truck in Europe and 2, he knows the job… still Surrey does have the 4x4 trucks huh.
your all missing the fact that he has studied the box set of outback trucker, twice
malcolmgbell:
discoman:
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
This is Classic Carryfast. I don’t care if you’re in Australia working in the transport industry- Surrys resident know all always knows best. Even if he hasn’t driven professionally in 20 years let alone a road train in AustraliaNo never driven a road train or even been to Oz.But I do know that the Stan Robinson design shown has a lot more load capacity than that Denby abortion.Or for that matter the Australian B double shown.
The specs for trucks are different here in Australia … but, you know that … you know that all the federal government state is a lie because you make the rules … so unless you actually come to Australia and inspect said vehicle … then don’t claim you know all … take Luke, a European driver, I take on board what he says because.
1, never driven a truck in Europe and 2, he knows the job… still Surrey does have the 4x4 trucks huh.
your all missing the fact that he has studied the box set of outback trucker, twice
I am sorry, I must retract all I said, I will have to watch all episodes of stobarts to research his facts.
discoman:
Carryfast:
No never driven a road train or even been to Oz.But I do know that the Stan Robinson design shown has a lot more load capacity than that Denby abortion.Or for that matter the Australian B double shown.The specs for trucks are different here in Australia … but, you know that … you know that all the federal government state is a lie because you make the rules
No the laws of design weight combined with local laws ‘make the rules’.So with all your Australian expertise you’ll obviously have no problem in explaining exactly how you’d distribute 90t gross on a 9 axle B double and the resulting axle weights and where Australian ‘Federal law’ states that is legal.As opposed to the weights provided in the NSW example.
seem to remember denby’s taking one onto the road from their depot to test it and the crap hit the fan,police were involved and I think he was looking at possible prosecution for it,is the bossman of denby dead now,or did I misread a couple of years ago
I ve driven super b fuel tankers here in alberta and turnpike extended length units (2 53 foot trailers connected by a one or two axle converter) .A super B might be ok in the UK on certain routes but roundabouts would be the problem…theres always the problem of unexpected detours . Turnpikes forget that no chance of one of those navigating normal british roads .
robinswh:
0I ve driven super b fuel tankers here in alberta and turnpike extended length units (2 53 foot trailers connected by a one or two axle converter) .A super B might be ok in the UK on certain routes but roundabouts would be the problem…theres always the problem of unexpected detours . Turnpikes forget that no chance of one of those navigating normal british roads .
I’m sorry, I do not believe you … when carryfats confirms or disputed your version of events then I may just may give you the benefit of the doubts … the regs say your trailers are 3mm to long … so not possible and they don’t make 52 ft 11 inches and 22 mm trailers in the USA. So has to be illegal.