shock horror

[neil46]

Road trains proposed for Britain

Road trains are already used on Australian roads
Super lorries weighing up to 60 tons could be operating on Britain’s roads under a proposal being considered by the Government.
An application for the “road trains” has been submitted to the Department of Transport by company Denby Transport.

The scheme has received support from the Road Haulage Association (RHA) which believes road trains make commercial and environmental sense.

The current limit for heavy goods vehicles (HGVs) is 44 tons.

But environmental group Transport 2000, which has called for more freight to be taken by rail, said road trains would eventually drive through villages and town centres.

Industry efficiency

Denby Transport has submitted an application for the 60 ton Denby Eco Link lorry, which is divided into two trailers and is 83ft long. The maximum for HGVs at present is 62ft.

A report on the scheme is also being drawn up for Transport Minister Dr Stephen Ladyman.

The RHA said the lorry would only travel on motorways between regional distribution centres.

"There are 428,000 trucks registered and if we could reduce that number to have one truck for every two - we’re all for it.

“The whole industry wants to run efficiently, it would make commercial and environmental sense,” a spokesman said.

Stephen Joseph, director of Transport 2000, said road trains “have no place on Britain’s country lanes and town centres”.

“Although the application has said they will be confined to motorways between distribution depots we’ve heard this before about lorries,” he said.

"In practice we’ve ended up with very large juggernauts going down country lanes and roads built for a horse and cart.

“The public want to see more freight by rail, not on the roads.”

A Department of Transport spokesman said Dr Ladyman would be considering the application, but there was no deadline for making a decision.

[brit_pete]

WELL well,are our goverment begining to see sense,or is it because the trials in the NETHERLANDS–&–GERMANY that are takeing place are working ,also that in all the years we have had roadtrains in germany bringing containers from Lübeck --to–hamburg HAS CAUSED NO DAMAGE
to the road or effected the traffic so this means perhaps a new driveing test
–licence in the near future,■■?

[carl]

transport 2000 make me laugh if they dont want big trucks in villages and small country lanes then may i suggest that they tell people that live in small villages and down country lanes to either move or cease living that way trucks will have no need to use there roads as no body will live and as for freight on rail do they not realise how much this will cost the public as someone is gonna have to pay to lay the extra track that will take 200ton plus trains to the delivery doors of there favourite highstreet or superstore

[alexxinny]

Hate to tell you, but 83’ ain’t no ‘road train’!

Here in New York (which is hardly the Great Wide-Open), we allow double 48’ trailers on the toll roads, where the total length of the unit is as much as 120’, pulling 72 tons. Canada allows 60 metric ton units of that 83’ size everywhere coast-to-coast, and Quebec allows ‘Train Routiere’ truck of approximately the size of the New York ‘turnpike doubles’, but tipping the scales at some 100+ metric tons on 13 axles.

The longest rigs I’ve seen in North America are the double 57’ trailers occasionally seen on the Kansas and Oklahoma toll roads-units which can be long as 135’!

[hitch]

as i say to the nimbys if you dont want trucks dont buy anything you dont need
another telly micro wave kettle clothes carpets wooden floor, food not produced in the uk

[truckyboy]

Dont the do gooders make you laugh…and the so called safety organisations,like Brake…and whatever 2000…whos paying their wages i wonder.!!..anyway…back to the thread…so their first answer is to say we dont want trucks going down country lanes and country villages…so take notice and ask…Why do trucks go through these places ■■..just for the scenery…?
of course not…its because some local council jobsworth has decided to build a factory in the middle of this village…or a premises that only has access through the village…when will this country wake up to its transport needs…thats why i`ve done international work for 30 odd years…cos the deliveries (and way of life) are so much easier…why oh why dont they copy France and put each towns industrial area in one place…its a lot easier to get to, and avoids the small villages that hate us so much…but havnt the brains to fathom out why were there in the first place…we will lag behind the europeans once again in giving this idea the green light…or as is normal…allow the foreigners to run in the uk with double trailers…but not our own transport…and maybe they will also strengthen the road net work so that this extra weight will not lead to more tramlines that we often wander into. when will the people representing the haulage industry…actually stand up for us for once…and tell the public…we need to be on the road…to enable this planet to survive…and those jobsworths who ban us from their town centres…will get no deliveries…they will have to collect them from a distribution centre on the outskirts of town…thus…putting their cost up…and a good job too…vote truckyboy for your transport minister…

[flying_fenman]

truckyboy:
Dont the do gooders make you laugh…and the so called safety organisations,like Brake…and whatever 2000…whos paying their wages i wonder.!!..anyway…back to the thread…so their first answer is to say we dont want trucks going down country lanes and country villages…so take notice and ask…Why do trucks go through these places ■■..just for the scenery…?
of course not…its because some local council jobsworth has decided to build a factory in the middle of this village…or a premises that only has access through the village…when will this country wake up to its transport needs…thats why i`ve done international work for 30 odd years…cos the deliveries (and way of life) are so much easier…why oh why dont they copy France and put each towns industrial area in one place…its a lot easier to get to, and avoids the small villages that hate us so much…but havnt the brains to fathom out why were there in the first place…we will lag behind the europeans once again in giving this idea the green light…or as is normal…allow the foreigners to run in the uk with double trailers…but not our own transport…and maybe they will also strengthen the road net work so that this extra weight will not lead to more tramlines that we often wander into. when will the people representing the haulage industry…actually stand up for us for once…and tell the public…we need to be on the road…to enable this planet to survive…and those jobsworths who ban us from their town centres…will get no deliveries…they will have to collect them from a distribution centre on the outskirts of town…thus…putting their cost up…and a good job too…vote truckyboy for your transport minister…

I would do chap, but can you do all the Tony Blair style hand gestures while you’re talking

[dennisw1]

Isnt this just the same post that was on that Honest John site a few weeks back?

[dratsabasti]

I went to a training/assesment day at Denby the other week, and they had the double out to MIRA, went seperate trailers of course, impressive looking piece of work.
Also watched a video of the Denby double in direct competition with the Stan Robinson version on Swinderby Airfield.
The Stan Robinson version could manage a 16m slalom at slow speed, the Denby managed a 12.5m slalom, the same as a standard 13.6m trailer.
The Denby could be reversed quite well round a 90 degree corner, forget the other.
The major differences between them:

Robinsons, 2x 13.6m trailers with a tow hitch on the first trailer with the 2nd trailer on a dolly.

Denby, shorter first trailer with a 5th wheel over the trailer bogey, which steers almost as much as the steer axle on the unit, followed by a 13.6m trailer.

Robinsons. 3 pivot points.

Denby. 2 pivot points. when reversing the 1st trailers steer axles lock up.

Denby, own the patent to their design. Before you can pull one of these you have to do their training course.

[wheel_nut]

So how do you tip the Denby outfit on a loading dock?

I reckon we should put everything on the railway car drivers, especially

[muckles]

Carl:
transport 2000 make me laugh if they dont want big trucks in villages and small country lanes then may i suggest that they tell people that live in small villages and down country lanes to either move or cease living that way trucks will have no need to use there roads as no body will live and as for freight on rail do they not realise how much this will cost the public as someone is gonna have to pay to lay the extra track that will take 200ton plus trains to the delivery doors of there favourite highstreet or superstore

Transport 2000 have a lot to say about road transport and safety, but remember they have there own agenda, which might be more obvious once you see the list of members.

Amicus
Arriva
ASLEF
Civic Trust
Community Transport Association
Council for National Parks
CPRE
CPRW
CTC
Cycle Campaign Network
Environmental Transport Association
EWS
FirstGroup
Friends of the Earth
GMB
Go Ahead Group
Light Rail Transit Association
Living Streets
National Council on Inland Transport
National Express Group
National Federation of Bus Users
National Federation of Women’s Institutes
National Trust
Railfuture
Railway Industry Association
Ramblers’ Association
RSPB
SERA
Stagecoach
Sustrans
TCPA
Transport for London
TSSA
UK Noise Association
UNIFI
UNISON
Wildlife Trusts
WWF UK
Youth Hostels Association

For an organisation that gets dragged out to quote for on road safety funny it has no safety groups like ROSPA or BRAKE.

[kyrbo]

Dratsabasti:
The Denby could be reversed quite well round a 90 degree corner, forget the other.

Denby, shorter first trailer with a 5th wheel over the trailer bogey, which steers almost as much as the steer axle on the unit, followed by a 13.6m trailer.

Denby. 2 pivot points. when reversing the 1st trailers steer axles lock up.

Did I understood correctly that both axles in Denby’s first trailer are steer axles? Or does it have “steerable bogie”? Two different things but I don’t know how to explain it. Nevertheless, it must be quite agile when comparing to those we have with two non-steer axles.

Reversing these is basically like reversing A-frame so it’s no problem. About new driving test brit pete mentioned. I would be quite suprised if such would be mandatory to drive these. You can come to Finland or Sweden with your UK reg truck and pull these trailers with it with your current HGV license just like we can do if (or when) these are made legal over there. But rates are unlikely to go up as much as your cargo capacity will (only waiting time at Tesco’s ).

[kyrbo]

Wheel Nut:
So how do you tip the Denby outfit on a loading dock?

Shorter trailer has most likely “sliding bogie” so you can slide fifth wheel under the trailer floor before reversing to a bay.

[spardo]

Dratsabasti:
IThe Denby could be reversed quite well round a 90 degree corner, forget the other.
.

Why’s that then? If you can reverse an artic and understand the principles involved, and reverse a drawbar and understand the principles involved, there is no reason why with a bit of careful thought and reasoning the Robinson outfit couldn’t be handled equally well.

In France now it is quite common to see 2x20’ doubles of both the above configurations and I’m sure these blokes handle them perfectly well in reverse. And remember, as every driver knows, the longer the trailer the easier the reverse. 20 foots can be a real pain, even on their own.

I’d love to have a go though. Been a long time .

BTW. Is the Denby one what is known as a B train? Anybody got any pictures?

Salut, David.

[kyrbo]

Spardo:

Dratsabasti:
IThe Denby could be reversed quite well round a 90 degree corner, forget the other.
.

Why’s that then?
…

It can be done but it’s much harder than with drawbar. Even artic with mid-axle drawbar behind it is much more difficult than normal A-frame drawbar becouse you can’t do corrective moves as fast as you can with rigid and drawbar. That’s what makes Robinsons outfit hard to reverse. If it goes to wrong way you are allready late with steering wheel which isn’t usually true with normal artic or drawbar outfit. Of course reversing will be easier when one gets more experience but it will take some time.

One guy told me that he can put his a-frame behind artic to any bay with lots of shunts even when reversing to blind side. I think that in many cases it would be faster to reverse those trailers separately. I have just posted picture of similar container outfit to pics forum and you can find it here.

I managed also to find couple pages about these outfits
http://www.denbytransport.co.uk/EcoLink.htm

Unforgettable.co.uk