■■■■ denby isn’t going to give up trying to run his road train.
i don’t think there is a place in the UK for B-doubles and the like at 44 to 60 tons.
but i think they could be run at 36 tons.
why 36 tons? it’s because the unladen weight of denby’s conbination must be about 26 tons. so if what he says is true. that they will only be used for very light, but bulky work, like crisps, etc.
so why don’t they allow it on these or similar terms?
it will save a lot of wasted time and tax payers money on something that will happen one day.
it would work as all the goverment need to do is put a restriction on the times it can run i.e 18.00 - 06.00 and only be allowed to operate on the motorway network, if the warehouse is not beside the motorway then they could do what the ozzies do and take biggest traier to a spot adjecent to the motorway and hook the lot up there and the same at other end if needed, but it would never happen as its a common sense idea and our govermnt dont know what common sense is
limeyphil:
■■■■ denby isn’t going to give up trying to run his road train.
i don’t think there is a place in the UK for B-doubles and the like at 44 to 60 tons.
I think they may be suitable for trunking work between RDCs.
The road train may be suitable for large companies to take even more of the available work but are definitely not in the best interests of drivers or small/medium sized UK hauliers.
tachograph:
The road train may be suitable for large companies to take even more of the available work but are definitely not in the best interests of drivers or small/medium sized UK hauliers.
Personally I hope it never happens.
i hope it dosn’t happen. but it probably will. after all 44 tons, and 45’ were thought of as big and dangerous once.
but that’s why i suggested the 36 ton limit, therefore giving just a 10 ton payload limit. it would limit their use, therefore it shouldn’t affect the rest of us.
I’d be very surprised if they get a green light on this, the public hate lorries, that won’t change, the Government hate lorries too, but they love the tax they pay, they will be losing millions in fuel tax if this type of lorry is allowed, for that reason alone it is unlikely that it’ll ever happen.
newmercman:
I’d be very surprised if they get a green light on this, the public hate lorries, that won’t change, the Government hate lorries too, but they love the tax they pay, they will be losing millions in fuel tax if this type of lorry is allowed, for that reason alone it is unlikely that it’ll ever happen.
newmercman:
I’d be very surprised if they get a green light on this, the public hate lorries, that won’t change, the Government hate lorries too, but they love the tax they pay, they will be losing millions in fuel tax if this type of lorry is allowed, for that reason alone it is unlikely that it’ll ever happen.
But---- Don’t forget the green lobby.
From an economic & environmental view the Denby idea makes a lot of sense, however the Green Lobby are not exactly a bunch that use common sense, all they will see is an even bigger juggernaut, in fact the only group other than hauliers that will be for the idea will be the prostitutes, it will halve the number of murdering lorryists
The only people who will in the end benefit if these vehicles get a go ahead are the large organisations who have large warehouses near a motorway junctions The reason you won’t get a better rate just because you have this vehicle, it will just drop so you are still left with the similar margins, large haulage companies might benefit as they could best utilise the kit to make the investment worthwhile.
Will they be used here, maybe Govenments take more notice of large organisations than the public and if the Supermarkets got behind they could put a great deal pressure on them. Then they’d use a massive green campaign to get them in, they’d aso do it just after an election to give time to the public to forget about the controversy surrounding thier introduction.
Obviously if and when they are first introduced there will be restrictions as to thier use, but watch them get erroded as time goes on.
The green lobby is unlikely to support them as anything truck related is a horrible smelly thing as far as they are concerned. Also some so called green and road safety lobbying groups have strong links with Public transport companies and unions although it takes some digging to find out. So they will still run thier anti truck scare stories.
tachograph:
The road train may be suitable for large companies to take even more of the available work but are definitely not in the best interests of drivers or small/medium sized UK hauliers.
Personally I hope it never happens.
i hope it dosn’t happen. but it probably will. after all 44 tons, and 45’ were thought of as big and dangerous once.
but that’s why i suggested the 36 ton limit, therefore giving just a 10 ton payload limit. it would limit their use, therefore it shouldn’t affect the rest of us.
Or they do the job properly and unlike Denby we run proper roadtrains where the gross weight reflects the size of the oufit.So you’re doing traction work with the most powerful old heavy haulage unit that you can find you couple up to one trailer put a two axle dolly under another one and get paid twice as much to haul two trailers down to Italy and back instead of the two Poles or Romanians who are running them down there at the moment?. That 6x4 driveline and a roadtrain makes more sense under those regs.
tachograph:
The road train may be suitable for large companies to take even more of the available work but are definitely not in the best interests of drivers or small/medium sized UK hauliers.
Personally I hope it never happens.
i hope it dosn’t happen. but it probably will. after all 44 tons, and 45’ were thought of as big and dangerous once.
but that’s why i suggested the 36 ton limit, therefore giving just a 10 ton payload limit. it would limit their use, therefore it shouldn’t affect the rest of us.
Or they do the job properly and unlike Denby we run proper roadtrains where the gross weight reflects the size of the oufit.So you’re doing traction work with the most powerful old heavy haulage unit that you can find you couple up to one trailer put a two axle dolly under another one and get paid twice as much to haul two trailers down to Italy and back instead of the two Poles or Romanians who are running them down there at the moment?. That 6x4 driveline and a roadtrain makes more sense under those regs.
Except the Poles and Romainians will also have them and rates will to be similar to what they are now, but you’ll just need fewer drivers to do European work and it’s bad enough for a UK driver to get European work now.
tachograph:
The road train may be suitable for large companies to take even more of the available work but are definitely not in the best interests of drivers or small/medium sized UK hauliers.
Personally I hope it never happens.
i hope it dosn’t happen. but it probably will. after all 44 tons, and 45’ were thought of as big and dangerous once.
but that’s why i suggested the 36 ton limit, therefore giving just a 10 ton payload limit. it would limit their use, therefore it shouldn’t affect the rest of us.
Or they do the job properly and unlike Denby we run proper roadtrains where the gross weight reflects the size of the oufit.So you’re doing traction work with the most powerful old heavy haulage unit that you can find you couple up to one trailer put a two axle dolly under another one and get paid twice as much to haul two trailers down to Italy and back instead of the two Poles or Romanians who are running them down there at the moment?. That 6x4 driveline and a roadtrain makes more sense under those regs.
Except the Poles and Romainians will also have them and rates will to be similar to what they are now, but you’ll just need fewer drivers to do European work and it’s bad enough for a UK driver to get European work now.
It’s always been almost imossible for UK drivers to get on European work and I should know because I never did get on to it so far over 30 years since I started out at 21.But even the average East European firm is’nt going to be able to be able to buy a fleet of cheap ex heavy haulage units and compete against a few British subbies who can.Especially if like me those subbies don’t mind working for east european wages as a loss leader to get the work.
Like has been said i would think if this combo gets the green light in the future there would be restictions i.e weight and only be allowed to run at night for say night trunking to hubs and between rdc’s… to be honest i think they are unsutable for uk roads thats why we run stepframes or double deck trailers for more capacity you can get 50+ pallets easy on a double decker!
cons77:
Like has been said i would think if this combo gets the green light in the future there would be restictions i.e weight and only be allowed to run at night for say night trunking to hubs and between rdc’s… to be honest i think they are unsutable for uk roads thats why we run stepframes or double deck trailers for more capacity you can get 50+ pallets easy on a double decker!
But you can’t put 50 tonnes+ on a double decker but you could on a decent LHV .There is’nt much difference between two artics following each other round a roundabout etc or two 45 foot semis coupled together with an A frame dolly.
The biggest cost to any transport operator is fuel and driver’s wages. So, if you can cut these with an offset in slightly increased operation and maintenance costs, then it’s obvious that someone like Denby is willing to challenge the current regulations as they stand. Parallels can be drawn from coaching where 15m rigid coaches carry more passengers [up to twice as many] with only one driver. I can see the likes of Stobart using these if the regulations get relaxed, just let someone else do the donkey work first.
leyland510:
The biggest cost to any transport operator is fuel and driver’s wages. So, if you can cut these with an offset in slightly increased operation and maintenance costs (parallels can be drawn from coaching where 15m rigid coaches carry more passengers [up to twice as many] with only one driver), then it’s obvious that someone like Denby is willing to challenge the current regulations as they stand. I can see the likes of Stobart using these if the regulations get relaxed, just let someone else do the donkey work.
Drivers are already doing the donkey work on intermodal where it’s the trains which do the best part of the job and truck drivers do the donkey work.But allowing proper doubles outfits would be more advantageous for subbies doing long distance UK/ European traction work than for the big fleets running local uk.They don’t usually use 15 metre coaches to run local bus routes.Bigger trucks only make sense on full load long distance work.
Carryfast:
Drivers are already doing the donkey work on intermodal where it’s the trains which do the best part of the job and truck drivers do the donkey work.
With regards to ‘donkey work’, I meant the likes of Denby lobbying the law makers to relax regulations to allow longer vehicles to operate in the UK.
Carryfast:
They don’t usually use 15 metre coaches to run local bus routes.Bigger trucks only make sense on full load long distance work.
I think you’re misconstruing it here. My point was if you get 89 bums on seats where you could previously get 49 with only a slight trade-off in operating and maintenance costs and no increase in drivers wages, then an operator will. There is also the ‘issue’ of vehicles with a 14,000 kg ULW (leaving only 5,000 kg spare to accomodate 50 bods and their luggage), but that’s another story
The UK is a small island, the roads are overcrowded, it takes between 2 and 8 hours to get a 45’ trailer tipped in an RDC and the roads are not suitable for LHV or even double deckers in my opinion. The idea is a good one, like the DD, but it is an unworkable one.
I admire Carryfasts one-man quest to get someone to agree with his point of view of double drive, obsolete two stroke engines and running at 75mph even though the USA had 55mph speed limits in many states. I have had the experience of running into Europe over the last 30 years and can tell him that if these things are allowed, the prices in the shops will not come down, the queues on the roads will increase as one turns it over through either inexperience or over exuberance. Apart from that, LKW Walter will not pay you any more to go to Italy, they will just expect everyone else to run for less.
If you want to use an LHV for the fun of driving one, then send ■■■■ Denby a cheque for £200. Dont expect to gain sympathy from established hauliers and drivers who saw what the relaxed rules of the EU and higher weights did to the industry, especially when you mention using a BOGOF trailer as a loss leader.
Don’t be a fool when you say that the East Europeans cannot buy Heavy Haulage tractors, they can buy anything we can buy, except their labour costs and fuel costs are cheaper.
Wheel Nut:
The UK is a small island, the roads are overcrowded, it takes between 2 and 8 hours to get a 45’ trailer tipped in an RDC and the roads are not suitable for LHV or even double deckers in my opinion. The idea is a good one, like the DD, but it is an unworkable one.
I admire Carryfasts one-man quest to get someone to agree with his point of view of double drive, obsolete two stroke engines and running at 75mph even though the USA had 55mph speed limits in many states. I have had the experience of running into Europe over the last 30 years and can tell him that if these things are allowed, the prices in the shops will not come down, the queues on the roads will increase as one turns it over through either inexperience or over exuberance. Apart from that, LKW Walter will not pay you any more to go to Italy, they will just expect everyone else to run for less.
If you want to use an LHV for the fun of driving one, then send ■■■■ Denby a cheque for £200. Dont expect to gain sympathy from established hauliers and drivers who saw what the relaxed rules of the EU and higher weights did to the industry, especially when you mention using a BOGOF trailer as a loss leader.
Don’t be a fool when you say that the East Europeans cannot buy Heavy Haulage tractors, they can buy anything we can buy, except their labour costs and fuel costs are cheaper.
The States did have a 55 mph speed limit but it was’nt there before 1972.However it was universally ignored at least until the 1980’s and then it was gradually raised again.The ironic thing is that trucks were travelling a lot faster over there with that limit in place and with those ‘obsolete’ two stroke motors than recent years with the higher but (much) more strictly enforced limits with tougher penalties.And I’m still waiting for someone who could come up with some figures showing which ‘modern’,not obsolete,engines could outperform those obsolete two strokes when it comes to specific outputs of torque which is the engineering yardstick.But as for the East Europeans being able to buy anything which we can buy and their labour and fuel costs being cheaper.As far as I know the average run from UK to Italy etc would need the tanks to be filled up somewhere where we could also also fill up.And the cost of diesel is not much different throughout Europe these days.There’s no way that it could be as economically viable for the big East European fleets to run their own roadtrains using heavy haulage type tractor units as a few owner driver subbies could by just using a cheaply bought one each to pull multiple trailers on a subby traction basis.Especially when as I’ve said there’s probably some subbies who think like me that it’s better to pull two trailers for the same wage that I’d be happy with to pull one and where that East European outfit has got loads of drivers to pay at any wage and loads of it’s own trailers to maintain all I’ve got to bother about is finding an old cheap heavy haulage 6x4 unit to buy and run of which there’s a few around.But unfortunately it probably won’t have a DD two stroke in it
Carryfast:
Especially when as I’ve said there’s probably some subbies who think like me that it’s better to pull two trailers for the same wage that I’d be happy with to pull one
Surely you can see that this could only put downward pressure on drivers’ wages, if only one driver is needed to deliver two trailers, rather than two?
