26 years an Lgv Trainer:
What is wrong with the word “Cowboys” Krankee ?
You pose a valid question, which I will try to answer.
The term ‘Cowboy’ has many connutations, not least of which is that the service/product provided is less than should be expected. With many, if not all of these companies, the ‘end game’ provision is at a level of training which cannot be faulted. Where they fail is in the marketing and pricing policy, along with (variously) impracticable promises.
Put yourself in the position of an aspiring driver doing a Google search. Would they search on “LGV training Cowboys?”. Most wouldn’t. They’d search on “LGV Training” for a given area. Which would pull up the sponsored links to National or Nationwide companies. The one’s which we both know and hate.
However, if they were to input, “LGV forums + National Training” (or a variation of those terms) then your amended post might feature high amongst the list of responses.
I make the observation from the aspect that you are ‘preaching to the conversted’. If you wish to attract a wider church, then you need to liberalise your terminology.
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
What is wrong with the word “Cowboys” Krankee ?
You pose a valid question, which I will try to answer.
The term ‘Cowboy’ has many connutations, not least of which is that the service/product provided is less than should be expected. With many, if not all of these companies, the ‘end game’ provision is at a level of training which cannot be faulted. Where they fail is in the marketing and pricing policy, along with (variously) impracticable promises.
Put yourself in the position of an aspiring driver doing a Google search. Would they search on “LGV training Cowboys?”. Most wouldn’t. They’d search on “LGV Training” for a given area. Which would pull up the sponsored links to National or Nationwide companies. The one’s which we both know and hate.
However, if they were to input, “LGV forums + National Training” (or a variation of those terms) then your amended post might feature high amongst the list of responses.
I make the observation from the aspect that you are ‘preaching to the conversted’. If you wish to attract a wider church, then you need to liberalise your terminology.
I like it the way it was written and would rather keep it that way thanks.
If the topic was LGV forums + National Training and it was searched you get a training schools listed and this forum.
So much good advice out there - - pity folk don’t always listen There’s plenty of good, highly reputable trainers out there but recommendation is the key. Also the comment about visiting the school - - brilliant. Some “schools” operate from truckstop lorry parks, pub car parks or the bit of waste land round the back of where they live. Many aren’t DSA registered instructors as this is yet to be a legal requirement. How come you have to be qualified and registered to teach on a Punto but not on a 44 tonner?? There’s loads of questions a new starter should be asking - the first being about instructor registration. Many vehicles in use for training are totally unsuitable for the job - but happen to be what was in the auction when the last one fell apart. Reversing facilities are often “interesting”. I am a trainer who is fortunate to operate his own driving test centre which clearly has the correct DSA reversing area. The difference between this and using a bit of an airfield or somesuch is enormous. I really wish people would take the effort to research their training provider before they part with the hard earned.
In the meantime, good luck to anyone starting off in this honourable profession. Just be carefull where you spend your money!
Peter Smythe:
How come you have to be qualified and registered to teach on a Punto but not on a 44 tonner??
Easy answer - Those trainees doing LGV are already drivers who, supposedly, have road sense, whereas those doing cars are not.
That is why to be a registered DSA ADI for car instructing has a proper training, testing & checking regime that actually has an examiner in the car with the instructor and the trainee.
The LGV DSA registered instructor does not follow the same training, testing etc and I have never known an examiner check a LGV instructor when they are teaching an actual trainee which is the only true way to check - role play is not the same.
This is why I, and many others do not believe in the LGV DSA registration process.
If there was a recognised training course which led to a recognised qualification which was realistically tested then that would make sense.
The LGV examiners when doing their job, occasionally have a spot check done on them by their bossess whilst conducting an actual test.
Yes, like you said, the potential truck driver should have road sense. If only! How often do we have to re-teach the absolute basics of roadcraft. And, of course, it’s not always been the case. Prior to the licence changes implemented in 1997, I regularly taught candidates without a car licence. It was known as “double L” as they got both licences at once. And that was straight to Class 1. I had over 20 years experience of that before 1997. There is training available towards the DSA LGV registration tests. The structure of the registration follows that for an ADI until, as you point out, you reach part 3. I fully understand that check tests on LGV instructors don’t happen. The DSA tell us this is due to the majority of trucks only having 2 seats. I’ve argued that the check test should be in place where possible and that role play should be used as a last resort - - - exactly the same as for a car instructor where there is no trainee available.Just look at the horror stories coming up on this site and it’s clear that the standards of instruction vary widely. I have knowlege of trainers working every day who have failed the DSA LGV instructor tests - more than once. But these characterswill cheerfully relieve new drivers of their cash. Not sure that’s quite right. I believe any trainer who is proud of their profession would be happy to take the tests and be perfectly capable of passing. In an industry continually beligned by the unenlightened and critisised by those who haven’t got a clue, it’s time for the training side to get it’s act together and act professionally. And that means qualified. At least the authorities could then remove the poor performers from the industry and trainees would have some sort of quality assurance.
When I’ve booked training I always visit the training school, look at their vehicles, have a chat about the training and have an assessment drive to make sure I’m going to get on with the instructor
Peter Smythe:
… it’s time for the training side to get it’s act together and act professionally. And that means qualified. At least the authorities could then remove the poor performers from the industry and trainees would have some sort of quality assurance.
Agree with some of what you say but only when there is a recognised training programme for LGV instructors will this have any meaning.
ok, now i am confused, CPC, i thought that was not due until sept sometime.
I am certainly not going to the likes of sterling, going direct to the training school which is relatively local to me, cut out any middle men and sales pitches, the way i planned to do it was…send off for proivisional after study theory, get provisonal, get theory…go to local trainig school, give them the money for course, drive around in a big truck, pass (with any luck…touch wood) boom, licence holder, now i have to pass this, that and the other now?? so it is not like getting your car licence?
jonoD:
ok, now i am confused, CPC, i thought that was not due until sept sometime.
I am certainly not going to the likes of sterling, going direct to the training school which is relatively local to me, cut out any middle men and sales pitches, the way i planned to do it was…send off for proivisional after study theory, get provisonal, get theory…go to local trainig school, give them the money for course, drive around in a big truck, pass (with any luck…touch wood) boom, licence holder, now i have to pass this, that and the other now?? so it is not like getting your car licence?
there are two types of CPC, Operators CPC and Driver CPC
the CPC in these schemes is the Operators CPC which is not needed by the majority of Drivers
Peter Smythe:
… it’s time for the training side to get it’s act together and act professionally. And that means qualified. At least the authorities could then remove the poor performers from the industry and trainees would have some sort of quality assurance.
Agree with some of what you say but only when there is a recognised training programme for LGV instructors will this have any meaning.
Don’t forget ROG that the ADI check test can now be undertaken with the SE carrying out role play.
ALL instructors should have to pass a qualification process regardless of category- this is the only way to ensure a consistent level for instructors- and eliminating the unprofessional element from the industry.
jonoD:
Is it really that bad with the training schools? or is everyone really negative due to one or two rip off merchants?
The latter - most local training schools are generally ok BUT ALWAYS GET A PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION from someone who has trained with them.
And don’t be fooled by anyones advertising - even the DSA registered bit has no real creedance as to the manner or way an instructor will teach or treat you - there are good and bad DSA registered and non-DSA registered instructors.
jonoD:
ok, now i am confused, CPC, i thought that was not due until sept sometime.
I am certainly not going to the likes of sterling, going direct to the training school which is relatively local to me, cut out any middle men and sales pitches, the way i planned to do it was…send off for proivisional after study theory, get provisonal, get theory…go to local trainig school, give them the money for course, drive around in a big truck, pass (with any luck…touch wood) boom, licence holder, now i have to pass this, that and the other now?? so it is not like getting your car licence?
there are two types of CPC, Operators CPC and Driver CPC
the CPC in these schemes is the Operators CPC which is not needed by the majority of Drivers
Iv been thinking about that a lot, hoping i get a good instructor, like i had when i did my car test, he picked up on EVERYTHING and was hard on me, but thats what you want…makes the test easy. I guess it is luck of the draw i guess.
I will try to research this school near to me or find recommendations from the liverpool area, anyone here from Liverpool?
jonoD:
Is it really that bad with the training schools? or is everyone really negative due to one or two rip off merchants?
NOT AT ALL jonoD- there are a lot of VERY VERY professional and caring training schools.
I am involved in 1 not too far from you and to us the customer is the most important element and we DO NOT ask for full payment til they start training- all courses are based on assessment so all trainees have seen us and driven the vehicle before committing to paying money.
Nothing to hide from anyone- thats how it should be
Many vehicles in use for training are totally unsuitable for the job - but happen to be what was in the auction when the last one fell apart.
If that where the case then the trucks would not be accepted in the test centre.
The dsa examiners are very keen on checking out that trucks used for test are in good condition and fully within the requirements of the DSA standard.
I am a trainer who is fortunate to operate his own driving test centre which clearly has the correct DSA reversing area.
so you operate your own driving test centre?? does that mean you give yourself 100% passes? If it is your own driving test centre then are you the examiner as well as the instructor?
Interesting.
Whast is wrong with using a piece of airfield for the reversing anyway? As long as the reversing area is marked out correctly at the correct size with the box at the back what difference does it make WHERE it is?
Many vehicles in use for training are totally unsuitable for the job - but happen to be what was in the auction when the last one fell apart.
If that where the case then the trucks would not be accepted in the test centre.
The dsa examiners are very keen on checking out that trucks used for test are in good condition and fully within the requirements of the DSA standard.
I am a trainer who is fortunate to operate his own driving test centre which clearly has the correct DSA reversing area.
so you operate your own driving test centre?? does that mean you give yourself 100% passes? If it is your own driving test centre then are you the examiner as well as the instructor?
Interesting.
Whast is wrong with using a piece of airfield for the reversing anyway? As long as the reversing area is marked out correctly at the correct size with the box at the back what difference does it make WHERE it is?
The original quote relates to a training school where the DSA have approved them as a testing centre for their candidates.
As for the airfield- if the area meets the correct criteria then it’s as good as anywhere else in my book.
We are not all fortunate enough to OWN enough land to to have a DSA approved area but that does mean we offer training of a poorer quantity to others.
Some small schools do give very good value for money and good pass rates- probably better than some of the BIGGER ones
