The EU is a failing experiment so why are the Remainers/Doomsters so convinced that our future will be better tied to the Frogs and Gerries ? Don’t forget that their loss will be greater than ours and it will hit the Cloggies hard as well so I say bring it on and No Deal will be just fine ! It may take a few months for common sense to prevail but it surely will as the Continentals put profit before pride. As for the Paddies well just close the Border and all the West coast ferry Ports for a month or so and they will soon realise which side their bread is buttered on as well ! Jeez they are a country of what 4 or 5 million trying to hold us to ransome ! Don’t worry about the Northern province the UK has been propping them up for years so they wont suffer ! get real I say and stop ■■■■■■■ about ! Tell Barnier to stuff it and walk away ! Cheers Bewick.
Franglais:
HRS:
Morning all,
A lot of people. " not on this thread" seem to be unaware that WTR, world trade rules, is used through out the world, by us and even by othe EU countries as a normal day to day oporation when dealing with countries ouside the EU, so my question is, why are people so afraid of us having a NO Deal with the EU. sure someone will put me right. HarveyWith WTR rules our products would be taxed in the countries we currently sell to. So, Jags, LandRovers, plus Nissans, Hondas made in the UK and sold into the EU would suddenly be more expensive there. Consequently less would be sold and our balance of payments would be even worse than now. Probably the likes of Nissan and Honda would seek to invest in factories in the EU rather than the UK to avoid such tariffs (import taxes) one would assume. And since Jag/LR are owned by TATA, where will future investment go?
Brexiteers seem to think we can strike new deals outside of the EU to increase sales in the future. Seems to me that`s a possible, maybe “birds in the bush” against the tariff free “bird in the hand” of a free trade EU today.
No Deal would mean our products would become more expensive to foreign consumers.
WTO rules don’t apply to cars the only rules are that there are no rules in that regard.
No surprise that your biased pro EU bs conveniently doesn’t allow for us imposing tarrifs against EU imports in return and then filling the resulting gap with domestic products obviously sold in the domestic market at a massive tax advantage over EU imports.Bearing in mind the ze Germans flog a lot more here than we sell there.IE the definition of our trade deficit with the EU means that we could obviously afford to ditch the liability of the EU market and more than make up for it by taxing German imports out of the market and replacing them with less taxed JLR products for example.
Also how does no deal with the EU make any difference whatsoever to our non EU trade.Especially in he case of us replacing EU imports with lower tariffs applied to US imports,with a corresponding increase in UK exports to the US,bearing in mind that,unlike the EU,we already have a trade surplus with the US which we could obviously afford to balance more in favour of the US to the benefit of trade overall between both.
Notwithstanding any of that why would we even want to remain ‘trading partners’ with such a bunch of blackmailing vindictive zb’s who want to apply trade sanctions against us for the crime of not wanting to be ruled by unelected dictatorial scum like Juncker and Tusk and the EUSSR politburo.Nor pay them a fortune for the privilege of importing their stuff while they buy zb all from us while imposing austerity at home to pay for it.
Bewick:
Tell Barnier to stuff it and walk away ! Cheers Bewick.
+1
Then specifically target all German car imports with a 100 % tariff to apply with immediate effect while removing VAT on JLR sales.Then if the EU wants a real trade war after that give em one. 
Bewick:
The EU is a failing experiment so why are the Remainers/Doomsters so convinced that our future will be better tied to the Frogs and Gerries ? Don’t forget that their loss will be greater than ours and it will hit the Cloggies hard as well so I say bring it on and No Deal will be just fine ! It may their loss will be greater than ours and it will hit the Cloggies hard as well so I say bring it on but it surely will as the Continentals put profit before pride. As for the Paddies well just close the Border and all the West coast ferry Ports for a month or so and they will soon realise which side their bread is buttered on as well ! Jeez they are a country of what 4 or 5 million trying to hold us to ransome ! Don’t worry about the Northern province the UK has been propping them up for years so they wont suffer ! get real I say and stop [zb] about ! Tell Barnier to stuff it and walk away ! Cheers Bewick.
Brilliant post!
It takes a lot to get me laughing first thing in the morning, but youve succeeded ! "EU is a failing experiment" Great view of the second world economy and the war-free past decades. Excellent spoof of the views of those who dont care how much pain Brexit brings the UK provided others suffer more: “their loss will be greater than ours and it will hit the Cloggies hard as well so I say bring it on”.
" it surely will as the Continentals put profit before pride" is a good parody of the "Im alright Jack" views of those who have done alright, but couldnt give a toss about those younger than themselves trying to make a way in this world. “Pulling up the ladder after themselves”!
And the way " As for the Paddies well just close the Border" takes the mickey out of those who wave the UNION Flag and shout about our country, but really don`t give a ■■■■ about anything outside their own small circle is brilliant. Great view of those who love bullying anyone slightly weaker than themselves and their own small group.
Keep up the posts ! We all need a laugh. 
Franglais:
HRS:
Morning all,
A lot of people. " not on this thread" seem to be unaware that WTR, world trade rules, is used through out the world, by us and even by othe EU countries as a normal day to day oporation when dealing with countries ouside the EU, so my question is, why are people so afraid of us having a NO Deal with the EU. sure someone will put me right. HarveyWith WTR rules our products would be taxed in the countries we currently sell to. So, Jags, LandRovers, plus Nissans, Hondas made in the UK and sold into the EU would suddenly be more expensive there. Consequently less would be sold and our balance of payments would be even worse than now. Probably the likes of Nissan and Honda would seek to invest in factories in the EU rather than the UK to avoid such tariffs (import taxes) one would assume. And since Jag/LR are owned by TATA, where will future investment go?
Brexiteers seem to think we can strike new deals outside of the EU to increase sales in the future. Seems to me that`s a possible, maybe “birds in the bush” against the tariff free “bird in the hand” of a free trade EU today.
No Deal would mean our products would become more expensive to foreign consumers.
Thanks for that Franglaise,
I can understand that quite well, all we sell abroad will have a larger tax by"them"
Presumably, we will levey a larger tax on Mec/BMW etc so looking at the ballance sheet at the end of the year what would we see ■■? Harvey
HRS:
Franglais:
HRS:
Morning all,
A lot of people. " not on this thread" seem to be unaware that WTR, world trade rules, is used through out the world, by us and even by othe EU countries as a normal day to day oporation when dealing with countries ouside the EU, so my question is, why are people so afraid of us having a NO Deal with the EU. sure someone will put me right. HarveyWith WTR rules our products would be taxed in the countries we currently sell to. So, Jags, LandRovers, plus Nissans, Hondas made in the UK and sold into the EU would suddenly be more expensive there. Consequently less would be sold and our balance of payments would be even worse than now. Probably the likes of Nissan and Honda would seek to invest in factories in the EU rather than the UK to avoid such tariffs (import taxes) one would assume. And since Jag/LR are owned by TATA, where will future investment go?
Brexiteers seem to think we can strike new deals outside of the EU to increase sales in the future. Seems to me that`s a possible, maybe “birds in the bush” against the tariff free “bird in the hand” of a free trade EU today.
No Deal would mean our products would become more expensive to foreign consumers.Thanks for that Franglaise,
I can understand that quite well, all we sell abroad will have a larger tax by"them"
Presumably, we will levey a larger tax on Mec/BMW etc so looking at the ballance sheet at the end of the year what would we see ■■? Harvey
Yep, as I see it “they” will put taxes on what we sell there, so their home produced stuff will obviously be a better buy for their consumers.
We can then put taxes on imports from them, (making BMs etc dearer) and reduce imports. So, yes, less trade in both directions.
But beyond the first year where will factories be built? Companies arent loyal to any one country, and want turnover above all else. So they will built factories, in countries without tariff barriers. Seems as clear as day to me that there will be less investment in the UK if we have tariff walls around us. A lack of trade means we ALL are worse off. Doesnt seem a good idea to me.
Japan, Canada the US are all trying to reduce tariffs in trade with the EU. We in the UK have a zero tariff deal at the moment but seem to be rushing towards introducing tariffs.
Excuse my ignorance in all these arguments,maybe Im just a thick Paddy,but if it really is as simple as two fingers to the EU,then why havent the UK done just that.After all they are the worlds most industrialised important economy,and the people such as Trump,Putin et al will be queuing up to do business.The aforementioned duo being at the top of my list for fairness and scruples in doing trade.
As regards the argument re Northern Ireland;well it reeks of history coming back to bite one on the bum.
While I have my views on Northern Ireland,there is/are a sizable proportion of people who claim to be British,and long before(and after) my time will uphold their view,which,like it or not,Britain has signed up to.
A whopping percentage of Northern Irish trade is done with the South,so tell them,(British citizens),what they can do with their jobs that depend on it.
It is an awful mess.
And just as a sidenote,I think what our taoiseach(prime minister) said about closing Irish airspace to British flights,is a total disgrace,and he should hang his head in shame.
And as a second sidenote,I think that if this is what the British people voted for,then that should be respected.I just think that there was very little thought or explanation put into it from the leave side.
Collective flag waving got in the way methinks,of some good solid arguments.
But face facts,the Empire is no more.
Franglais:
Yep, as I see it “they” will put taxes on what we sell there, so their home produced stuff will obviously be a better buy for their consumers.
We can then put taxes on imports from them, (making BMs etc dearer) and reduce imports. So, yes, less trade in both directions.
But beyond the first year where will factories be built? Companies arent loyal to any one country, and want turnover above all else. So they will built factories, in countries without tariff barriers. Seems as clear as day to me that there will be less investment in the UK if we have tariff walls around us. A lack of trade means we ALL are worse off. Doesnt seem a good idea to me.
Japan, Canada the US are all trying to reduce tariffs in trade with the EU. We in the UK have a zero tariff deal at the moment but seem to be rushing towards introducing tariffs.
Your one sided biased Blairite bs is laughable.The EU apply far higher tariffs and quotas to US imports than the US applies to EU imports there.With a massive trade deficit with the EU to prove it.Which is what Trump is rightly moaning about.Then you say that the US is supposedly grovelling for more of the same and needs to reduce its barriers even further.
While it’s clear that it’s your Soviet/Stasi style rabble that want to kick off a trade war with us for the crime of secession.Good luck with that from a position in which the EU sells massively more to the UK market than the piddling amount that we sell in their’s.When the truth is we’d benefit massively from a situation in which we could tax and quota the zb out of German imports to the point of effectively removing them from the domestic market,to the benefit of domestic industry which can then fill the gap by removing VAT from JLR domestic sales for example.
The EU has been nothing but one big dictatorial foreign aid scam to the benefit of the EU from our point of view.While if Trump was the real deal he’d have already banned all EU car imports in the US until you bunch of selfish parasites come to your senses. 
whiplash:
Excuse my ignorance in all these arguments,maybe Im just a thick Paddy,but if it really is as simple as two fingers to the EU,then why havent the UK done just that.After all they are the worlds most industrialised important economy,and the people such as Trump,Putin et al will be queuing up to do business.The aforementioned duo being at the top of my list for fairness and scruples in doing trade.
As regards the argument re Northern Ireland;well it reeks of history coming back to bite one on the bum.
While I have my views on Northern Ireland,there is/are a sizable proportion of people who claim to be British,and long before(and after) my time will uphold their view,which,like it or not,Britain has signed up to.
A whopping percentage of Northern Irish trade is done with the South,so tell them,(British citizens),what they can do with their jobs that depend on it.
It is an awful mess.
And just as a sidenote,I think what our taoiseach(prime minister) said about closing Irish airspace to British flights,is a total disgrace,and he should hang his head in shame.
And as a second sidenote,I think that if this is what the British people voted for,then that should be respected.I just think that there was very little thought or explanation put into it from the leave side.
Collective flag waving got in the way methinks,of some good solid arguments.
But face facts,the Empire is no more.
- 1 and then some Whiplash. Only 2 things to disagree with. You are quite obviously not an ignorant Paddy, and, I didn’t hear the Taoiseach make that statement, but if you did then I believe it, but I have also heard that what he said was taken out of context.
On every other point made, fact, well said.
whiplash:
Excuse my ignorance in all these arguments,maybe Im just a thick Paddy,but if it really is as simple as two fingers to the EU,then why havent the UK done just that.After all they are the worlds most industrialised important economy,and the people such as Trump,Putin et al will be queuing up to do business.The aforementioned duo being at the top of my list for fairness and scruples in doing trade.
As regards the argument re Northern Ireland;well it reeks of history coming back to bite one on the bum.
While I have my views on Northern Ireland,there is/are a sizable proportion of people who claim to be British,and long before(and after) my time will uphold their view,which,like it or not,Britain has signed up to.
A whopping percentage of Northern Irish trade is done with the South,so tell them,(British citizens),what they can do with their jobs that depend on it.
It is an awful mess.
And just as a sidenote,I think what our taoiseach(prime minister) said about closing Irish airspace to British flights,is a total disgrace,and he should hang his head in shame.
And as a second sidenote,I think that if this is what the British people voted for,then that should be respected.I just think that there was very little thought or explanation put into it from the leave side.
Collective flag waving got in the way methinks,of some good solid arguments.
But face facts,the Empire is no more.
Ireland seems to have a selective and not very accurate view of its own history.
Having a relative who died for the Irish ‘Nationalist’ cause ( which also by definition means respecting the right to self determination of the Loyalist community in the North just as the South wanted its right to self determination respected ) if Ireland wants to sell the country he fought for out to EU rule instead of Brit that’s up to them.But don’t expect to take us into the Soviet style zb pile with you.
As for the zb so called Taoiseach ( EU puppet ) he can do one and if he really wants a wall to please his EU masters then build it.As for the so called Irish Nationalist cause,like the Catholic church,it’s obvious that it’s been infiltrated by stinking Soviet Socialists who’s idea of a free Ireland is to tie it to the EUSSR.
Meanwhile that’s real Irish Nationalist and is what my relative died for.
Bewick:
The EU is a failing experiment so why are the Remainers/Doomsters so convinced that our future will be better tied to the Frogs and Gerries ? Don’t forget that their loss will be greater than ours and it will hit the Cloggies hard as well so I say bring it on and No Deal will be just fine ! It may take a few months for common sense to prevail but it surely will as the Continentals put profit before pride. As for the Paddies well just close the Border and all the West coast ferry Ports for a month or so and they will soon realise which side their bread is buttered on as welll Jeez they are a country of what 4 or 5 million trying to hold us to ransome ! Don’t worry about the Northern province the UK has been propping them up for years so they wont suffer ! get real I say and stop [zb] about ! Tell Barnier to stuff it and walk away ! Cheers Bewick.
They won’t have any bread to butter, all the flour for Eire is milled by Nelstrops, ADM Milling, Rank Hovis, Whitworths, here in England. There isn’t a flour mill of any size in Eire.
21st century potato famine all over again?With a replacement spud called bread.
Correct Gingerfold,the vast vast amount of flour for Irish milling does indeed come from the UK.An industry worth over £1bn to the UK coffers.If there is/are tariffs put on flour,I would respectfully suggest that flour will be sourced elsewhere.Tariff free. Respectfully also I would suggest that a sizable portion of that £1bn will be lost,in hard cash and jobs.
I think the term used is free trade,which in certain areas, works both ways.
And, as a footnote to what our leader said,(re airspace)I think it is deplorable what he should say to our nearest and dearest neighbours,who,when the chips were down over many years came to our help.Latest that I can recall been the first to throw a few quid into our coffers when this country imploded amidst the financial meltdown circa 2007. Mind you,they were also guilty of some negative stuff.But that is history.
whiplash:
21st century potato famine all over again?With a replacement spud called bread.
Correct Gingerfold,the vast vast amount of flour for Irish milling does indeed come from the UK.An industry worth over £1bn to the UK coffers.If there is/are tariffs put on flour,I would respectfully suggest that flour will be sourced elsewhere.Tariff free. Respectfully also I would suggest that a sizable portion of that £1bn will be lost,in hard cash and jobs.
I think the term used is free trade,which in certain areas, works both ways.
And, as a footnote to what our leader said,(re airspace)I think it is deplorable what he should say to our nearest and dearest neighbours,who,when the chips were down over many years came to our help.Latest that I can recall been the first to throw a few quid into our coffers when this country imploded amidst the financial meltdown circa 2007. Mind you,they were also guilty of some negative stuff.But that is history.
In view of what you said about Mr. Varadkar’s remarks I did a little checking and it appears that he was confusing EU agreements with wider international ones. The IATA treaty between 133 countries throughout the world is what determines who flies over Ireland, not the EU. However there has been much in the press recently with shock stories about aircraft being grounded if there is a No Deal Brexit. Perhaps that was what was confusing him. It did give rise though to a less than polite response from Rees-Mogg who called him an airhead. 
Whatever the truth of the press reports it is a fact that many, if not most, of the flights from the EU to N. America pass through British airspace as well as Irish ones, so it seems highly unlikely that it wouldn’t be sorted out before it comes to Varadkar’s scenario.
Carryfast:
WTO rules don’t apply to cars the only rules are that there are no rules in that regard.
Really?
WTO product number 87/03/221000 for cars
“Other vehicles, with only spark-ignition internal combustion reciprocating piston engine
Of a cylinder capacity not exceeding 1 000 cm3
87 03 210000
Of a cylinder capacity exceeding 1 000 cm3 but not exceeding 1 500 cm3
87 03 220000
New
87 03 221000”
There`s an example of vehicles attracting 10% tariff from third countries, into the EU. So in a hard Brexit our cars would be 10% dearer in EU than now. Not good for exports and employment in the UK.
Carryfast:
Then specifically target all German car imports with a 100 % tariff to apply with immediate effect while removing VAT on JLR sales.Then if the EU wants a real trade war after that give em one.
Fine idea. They will of course reciprocate won`t they?
“80% of the UK’s car production is exported, of which 54% goes to EU member states. In 2017, the United Kingdom produced 1.75 million motor vehicles, exporting 800,000 of these within the European Union.”
acea.be/statistics/article/ … u-partners
And here
fullfact.org/europe/german-cars-uk/
About 1 in 7 German cars are sold in the UK.
So a trade war could mean Germany losing 14% of their sales and the UK losing 40% of sales.
Dont look good to me. And if such a trade war took off would TATA continue to use the UK as their European base, would Ford, Honda etc etc continue to invest in a country with practically zero sales into the EU? I could make a fair bet they wouldnt.
Trade war? . . . Both sides loose in wars, but the UK stands to loose the most.
Please excuse my ignorance but why didn`t Iceland face all these problems when they left the EU ,and how much did they have to pay to leave ?
ramone:
Please excuse my ignorance but why didn`t Iceland face all these problems when they left the EU ,and how much did they have to pay to leave ?
Iceland isnt and never has been a member of the EU. It nearly became a member, but changed its mind. It is part of the European Economic Area and is part of the Schengen Area. So it has close ties economically and free movement of people, but has no voting rights in EU policy.
(It has a population of about 350,000…a bit less than Bristol)
Pardon me if you think I am wrong as it appears that more than one commenting on this thread who originally were residing and working in the UK now no longer do so, IMHO you are free to reside outside the UK but why are you so concerned as to what happens to us in Blighty deal or no deal. Surely choosing to live in another country which you obviously prefer relieves you of any interest in the goings on in your motherland, I cannot get my head round this scenario. Its a bit like going into a restaurant and having a bad meal and instead of saying ought you just tell every one and his dog not to have the same experience as you did. The persons I am referring to have made your choice and believe it to be a good one so why not just be content with your present situation and let us back home deal with ours what ever comes our way.
Personally I don’t see a deal happening as what ever is put forward to those lovely ■■■■■■■ in Brussels they will find fault with what ever we try and do ending in no compromise as they want to be as awkward as they can as a punishment for wanting out of there stinking rules and financial burdens, Buzzer.
BUZZER,100% you are correct ,people moved away with all gusto,saying in their heads, yes you can all stay in blighty and get on with it, im off. then they realize where ever they are,
[realizing]hang on.
i have no rights where i am ,“i am a foreigner” [but im british] whoops,did i make a good move ,now you will find out ,yes,you should not have gone in the first place.if i had my way ,you leave,YOU leave,you have no vote,no coming back for the NHS TREATMENT THEN GO BACK AND MOAN ,reduced all pensions to pensioners not living in this country,its to be spent in Britain.
dbp.
Buzzer:
Pardon me if you think I am wrong as it appears that more than one commenting on this thread who originally were residing and working in the UK now no longer do so, IMHO you are free to reside outside the UK but why are you so concerned as to what happens to us in Blighty deal or no deal. Surely choosing to live in another country which you obviously prefer relieves you of any interest in the goings on in your motherland, I cannot get my head round this scenario. Its a bit like going into a restaurant and having a bad meal and instead of saying ought you just tell every one and his dog not to have the same experience as you did. The persons I am referring to have made your choice and believe it to be a good one so why not just be content with your present situation and let us back home deal with ours what ever comes our way.
Personally I don’t see a deal happening as what ever is put forward to those lovely [zb] in Brussels they will find fault with what ever we try and do ending in no compromise as they want to be as awkward as they can as a punishment for wanting out of there stinking rules and financial burdens, Buzzer.
Buzzer,
I have retired to live in Portugal and have voted,as I am legally entitled to.
My interest in the UK political scene will always be maintained as long as my children and grandchildren live there,naturally I only want the best for them,the fact that I no longer choose to live in the UK is irrelevant.
David
Franglais:
[Companies want turnover above all else.
The path to ruin, but it certainly seems to be the modern mantra among these so called senior managers and ‘executives’. Everything has to be bigger and attempts made to put all competitors out of business, until suddenly someone WITH a brain wakes up to the fact that they are not making a profit. But by then it is usually too late.
Absolute tossers.