cav551:
I watched Last Night of the Proms as usual yesterday. It was definitely beyond the pale to see the romoaners waving their [zb] EU flags both during Land of Hope and Glory and during Jerusalem, but to wave the [zb] arsewipes during God Save the Queen was quite simply disgraceful. They should have been shown out of the Albert Hall before the National Anthem.
I’m glad I didn’t see this, what the hell is wrong with these individuals, they are no better than fifth columnist’s…
Juddian:
David Starkey on fire on the Brendan O’Neill show, this is a must listen.
Yes it certainly is Thanks for that. The sad thing is - speaking nationally- that those who need to listen to it won’t because it is not what they want to hear.
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Hands Up!
The second reading is much more important and Carryfast`s figures are correct for that.
Sorry for my error.So you agree that parliament ‘was’ massively in favour of the ‘principle’ of settling the issue by way of a referendum ?.
If/when that’s settled we can move on to the fact that there weren’t 3 options ever called for by any Party on the ballot paper as part of that.In the form of let’s say Leave,EEA,Remain nor by implication were there ever meant to be ?.Because Leave was/is never meant to win.It’s a US/German Federalist inspired conspiracy and has been since 1972 and the hiding of FCO 30/1048.
Prepare for quisling ‘remainers’ and their German leadership’s next move being the end game of revocation and Lisbon here we come.If not BoJo’s ( May’s ) insurance policy of BRINO ( EEA minus ) effectively being the same thing.
Yes. At the second reading the bill was carried by a big majority, with Con, and Lab, support, but Lib-Dem opposition.
On your second point about the referendum:
In elections candidates are elected by a simple “X” being placed next to their name. Those candidates are usually chosen by voters because of party allegiance. The parties publish manifestos which promise what will happen if they are elected.
If the case of the referendum the Leave campaign said we would have easy negotiations to reach a better deal with the EU. They made many claims, (including blatant lies about £350m and Turkey etc) which are now clearly seen as false. The Referendum vote was based on “facts” and promises which have now proved wrong.
The Leave manifesto was, and is false.
What many voted for was the promised bright future promised in the Leave manifesto. Not the Hard Brexit and financial hardships we are now looking at.
.
You are right to say there was only a Yes/No choice.
As with General Elections we only got to put one simple “X” in a box. But that “X” is for the promised associated with the campaign behind it.
Voting out in 2016 was a vote for the Leave promises, and those promises aren’t being let. Indeed they cannot be met. The “easiest trade negotiation in history” new found cash etc is evidently not there. Going with a second or third rate, Brexit is not what was promised by the referendum campaign.
.
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Edit to add.
Why was there no call for 3 options on the ballot?
Because No One was talking of a “No Deal” hard Brexit. The situation we are NOW in was envisaged by nobody that I can see. It certainly wasn’t in any of the literature from the time.
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Any links from you, or anyone, to the Hard Brexit scenario we now have, from pre referendum days?
What ‘hardships’ can possibly be worse than the ones we have and have had since we joined the scam.Meaning the mass transfer of industry and wealth,in the form of massive net contributions and a laughable trade deficit,to the EU while inflicting austerity at home to pay for it.
As for lies the only lies here are those being told by your rabble in trying to spin all that as being an advantage to us.Let alone when it also comes at the added cost of being ruled by people like Juncker and foreign Federal QMV and all enforced by a foreign court.
cav551:
I watched Last Night of the Proms as usual yesterday. It was definitely beyond the pale to see the romoaners waving their [zb] EU flags both during Land of Hope and Glory and during Jerusalem, but to wave the [zb] arsewipes during God Save the Queen was quite simply disgraceful. They should have been shown out of the Albert Hall before the National Anthem.
To be fair the Queen and her entourage including deffo Charles and Wills are all onside with the 4th Reich project.As for these Continental usurpers conflating Jerusalem with either the EU flag or the equally foreign imposed UK dreamt up by the ‘Conqueror’ and his Frog fiefdom that’s what I call war in either case.You can keep God Save the Queen in that regard let em do whatever they like with it.Harold was our true last King to date.
cav551:
Juddian:
David Starkey on fire on the Brendan O’Neill show, this is a must listen.Yes it certainly is Thanks for that. The sad thing is - speaking nationally- that those who need to listen to it won’t because it is not what they want to hear.
A couple of people agreeing with each other, patting each other on the back, and feeling good about how correct they are, mocking others who think differently doesn’t do it for me.
Classic “echo chamber”.
Franglais:
cav551:
Juddian:
David Starkey on fire on the Brendan O’Neill show, this is a must listen.Yes it certainly is Thanks for that. The sad thing is - speaking nationally- that those who need to listen to it won’t because it is not what they want to hear.
A couple of people agreeing with each other, patting each other on the back, and feeling good about how correct they are, mocking others who think differently doesn’t do it for me.
Classic “echo chamber”.
A bit like this thread then Franglais, with a few excepions of course. 
Franglais:
cav551:
Juddian:
David Starkey on fire on the Brendan O’Neill show, this is a must listen.Yes it certainly is Thanks for that. The sad thing is - speaking nationally- that those who need to listen to it won’t because it is not what they want to hear.
A couple of people agreeing with each other, patting each other on the back, and feeling good about how correct they are, mocking others who think differently doesn’t do it for me.
Classic “echo chamber”.
That is So sad. Without being personal it does illustrate yet another instance of dismissing History out of hand without any desire to analyse the contention with supporting contradictory facts. In other words History is irrelevant so we have nothing to learn. And those who support leaving the EU with or without a deal are supposed to the ones who cannot be… No we cannot be brainwashed nor will we accept the arguments so vociferously paraded about the alleged possible reasons behind the prorogation, when the media is unwilling to bring up the even more dubious chicanery regarding the non disclosure for 30 years and the contents of FCO 30 1048.
For those who don’t wish to see all 59 minutes of the video the link contains a very short precis of some of David Starkey’s arguments, with some reference to double standards.
cav551:
Franglais:
cav551:
Juddian:
David Starkey on fire on the Brendan O’Neill show, this is a must listen.Yes it certainly is Thanks for that. The sad thing is - speaking nationally- that those who need to listen to it won’t because it is not what they want to hear.
A couple of people agreeing with each other, patting each other on the back, and feeling good about how correct they are, mocking others who think differently doesn’t do it for me.
Classic “echo chamber”.That is So sad. Without being personal it does illustrate yet another instance of dismissing History out of hand without any desire to analyse the contention with supporting contradictory facts. In other words History is irrelevant so we have nothing to learn. And those who support leaving the EU with or without a deal are supposed to the ones who cannot be… No we cannot be brainwashed nor will we accept the arguments so vociferously paraded about the alleged possible reasons behind the prorogation, when the media is unwilling to bring up the even more dubious chicanery regarding the non disclosure for 30 years and the contents of FCO 30 1048.
For those who don’t wish to see all 59 minutes of the video the link contains a very short precis of some of David Stakey’s arguments, with some reference to double standards.
Who has dismissed history?
Starkey can normally hold his own corner in a debate. Agree or not he can argue a point. That didn’t happen here.
That piece is rather like watching a good batsman face the bowling of a junior school kid.
Thanks for that Cav, i hadn’t realised Starkey had penned an article for the Mail, a paper incidentally which from what i hear ( i read no newspapers and haven’t for over 30 years) changed tack from leave to remain under the new editor, so i’m a little surprised this article is featured there.
gov.uk/government/news/brex … Qqqzznf1VU
Brexit Secretary signs order to scrap 1972 Brussels Act - ending all EU law in the UK
Juddian:
Brexit Secretary signs order to scrap 1972 Brussels Act - ending all EU law in the UK - GOV.UKBrexit Secretary signs order to scrap 1972 Brussels Act - ending all EU law in the UK
Don’t believe a word that these complicit Tory liars say.It’s all a diversion.Signing an order with the ‘intention’ of taking out a peripheral irrelevent piece of the puzzle isn’t the same thing as repeal of the European Communites Act and all the associated lines of remainer defence.Let alone in any meaningful way.
This is what we’re really up against before that can happen in the form of 1) section 9 of the withdrawal act here.Combined with its new surrender act supplement.
Franglais:
Who has dismissed history?
Starkey can normally hold his own corner in a debate. Agree or not he can argue a point. That didn’t happen here.
That piece is rather like watching a good batsman face the bowling of a junior school kid.
Yes history like FCO 30/1048 in this case.
Next you’ll be saying that the Germans won the Battle of Britain because we lost the battle for France.Which was all our fault because the we didn’t help the plucky Vichy regime throw the Germans back.
Spardo:
Franglais:
cav551:
Juddian:
David Starkey on fire on the Brendan O’Neill show, this is a must listen.Yes it certainly is Thanks for that. The sad thing is - speaking nationally- that those who need to listen to it won’t because it is not what they want to hear.
A couple of people agreeing with each other, patting each other on the back, and feeling good about how correct they are, mocking others who think differently doesn’t do it for me.
Classic “echo chamber”.A bit like this thread then Franglais, with a few excepions of course.
Who`s having who on here ?
Small willy syndrome was very evident yesterday when the leader of a country which is so tiny that I can’t even find it on the map, decided to have his willy-waving moment thinking it would be a big look at me occasion. It wasn’t because what he was waving was so small no one could see it. All he has managed to do is to anger sections of the UK population who are alakefic about Brexit, but now feel personally insulted by his grandstanding.
A day or two before Adolf ■■■■■■■■■■ was ranting to the Liberal Irrelevants about his intended EU Empire.
The man on the Clapham omnibus has now been given a greater insight of these peoples intentions.
It is worth watching the embedded video clips in the two links to appreciate fully the sneering attitude prevalent.
cav551:
Small willy syndrome was very evident yesterday when the leader of a country which is so tiny that I can’t even find it on the map, decided to have his willy-waving moment thinking it would be a big look at me occasion. It wasn’t because what he was waving was so small no one could see it. All he has managed to do is to anger sections of the UK population who are alakefic about Brexit, but now feel personally insulted by his grandstanding.A day or two before Adolf ■■■■■■■■■■ was ranting to the Liberal Irrelevants about his intended EU Empire.
The man on the Clapham omnibus has now been given a greater insight of these peoples intentions.
It is worth watching the embedded video clips in the two links to appreciate fully the sneering attitude prevalent.
Brilliant new name for the POS.I was using thermostat.Unfortunately the ‘man on the clapham omnibus’ is now just as if not more likely to be a 4th Reich loyalist as fanatical as many of those who swore their allegiance to the 3rd.
cav551:
Small willy syndrome was very evident yesterday when the leader of a country which is so tiny that I can’t even find it on the map, decided to have his willy-waving moment thinking it would be a big look at me occasion. It wasn’t because what he was waving was so small no one could see it. All he has managed to do is to anger sections of the UK population who are alakefic about Brexit, but now feel personally insulted by his grandstanding.A day or two before Adolf ■■■■■■■■■■ was ranting to the Liberal Irrelevants about his intended EU Empire.
The man on the Clapham omnibus has now been given a greater insight of these peoples intentions.
It is worth watching the embedded video clips in the two links to appreciate fully the sneering attitude prevalent.
“Small Willy sydrome”?
Yes.
Faced with potestors MrJohnson chose to chicken out. Speakig to school kids in photo ops or answering questions selected by his aides on YouTube is more his mark.
I wonder if Mr Bewick is pleased at the performance of Mr Bettel? He seems to have learnt from Mr Trump to ignore diplomatic convention and “tell it like it is”!
Franglais:
cav551:
Small willy syndrome was very evident yesterday when the leader of a country which is so tiny that I can’t even find it on the map, decided to have his willy-waving moment thinking it would be a big look at me occasion. It wasn’t because what he was waving was so small no one could see it. All he has managed to do is to anger sections of the UK population who are alakefic about Brexit, but now feel personally insulted by his grandstanding.A day or two before Adolf ■■■■■■■■■■ was ranting to the Liberal Irrelevants about his intended EU Empire.
The man on the Clapham omnibus has now been given a greater insight of these peoples intentions.
It is worth watching the embedded video clips in the two links to appreciate fully the sneering attitude prevalent.
“Small Willy sydrome”?
Yes.
Faced with potestors MrJohnson chose to chicken out. Speakig to school kids in photo ops or answering questions selected by his aides on YouTube is more his mark.
I wonder if Mr Bewick is pleased at the performance of Mr Bettel? He seems to have learnt from Mr Trump to ignore diplomatic convention and “tell it like it is”!
That’s a pathetic viewpoint, I think our PM did exactly the right thing by not doing the press conference as it would have been a total waste of time shambles due to those shameless British middle class raucous protesters that had been bused in on their bit of a jolly, seemingly being allowed to disrupt proceedings.
Why didn’t the EU organisers move the conference inside as was requested? And then for that Bettel nobody to have his solo rant instead!
The EU really did show it’s shameful true colours yet again yesterday and I think if anything did themselves more harm than good.
Franglais:
Faced with potestors MrJohnson chose to chicken out. Speakig to school kids in photo ops or answering questions selected by his aides on YouTube is more his mark.
I wonder if Mr Bewick is pleased at the performance of Mr Bettel? He seems to have learnt from Mr Trump to ignore diplomatic convention and “tell it like it is”!
But then you know,that like May and Cameron before him and the Conservative Federalist Party in general ( the same party that took us into the 4th Reich ),Johnson is actually one of yours.So spare us the bs false flag act.As for Trump he’s another controlled opposition muppet as would expected of the President of the biggest Federal zb pile on the planet.Which then went one better by trying to create a USE in its own image using German Federalism as the catalyst.Which the krauts then predictably hijacked for their own 4th Reich agenda.Now supported by the same Soviet Socialist type useful idiots as those who allied with the 3rd Reich in 1939.
bigstraight6:
Franglais:
cav551:
Small willy syndrome was very evident yesterday when the leader of a country which is so tiny that I can’t even find it on the map, decided to have his willy-waving moment thinking it would be a big look at me occasion. It wasn’t because what he was waving was so small no one could see it. All he has managed to do is to anger sections of the UK population who are alakefic about Brexit, but now feel personally insulted by his grandstanding.A day or two before Adolf ■■■■■■■■■■ was ranting to the Liberal Irrelevants about his intended EU Empire.
The man on the Clapham omnibus has now been given a greater insight of these peoples intentions.
It is worth watching the embedded video clips in the two links to appreciate fully the sneering attitude prevalent.
“Small Willy sydrome”?
Yes.
Faced with potestors MrJohnson chose to chicken out. Speakig to school kids in photo ops or answering questions selected by his aides on YouTube is more his mark.
I wonder if Mr Bewick is pleased at the performance of Mr Bettel? He seems to have learnt from Mr Trump to ignore diplomatic convention and “tell it like it is”!That’s a pathetic viewpoint, I think our PM did exactly the right thing by not doing the press conference as it would have been a total waste of time shambles due to those shameless British middle class raucous protesters that had been bused in on their bit of a jolly, seemingly being allowed to disrupt proceedings.
Why didn’t the EU organisers move the conference inside as was requested? And then for that Bettel nobody to have his solo rant instead!
The EU really did show it’s shameful true colours yet again yesterday and I think if anything did themselves more harm than good.
I think that it was a national Luxembourg issue rather an EU one, but that’s minor.
Should he not have tried to speak?
If shouted down he could show protesters up as being anti free speech. No one suggested there was any security issue. His entourage seemed happy with the arrangements, until they saw the protesters.
Johnson has form. He tried avoiding questions from professional interviewers pre leadership vote. Answering friendly questions he gets to choose himself ain’t that hard, surely? Even I could win MasterMind if I got to choose the questions.
Not much of a negotiation gonna happen if he likens himself to The Hulk , but acts like the Incredible Shrinking Man.
.
Was Bettel less than a perfect host?
Maybe so.
He doesn’t want his country or the EU to be in the situation that Brexit has put them. Maybe he doesn’t like his visitor trying to pass blame to the EU, for the UK’s lack of a credible exit plan? We can’t accuse Bettel of woffling on about crap, can we? He cares about the future and it seems doesn’t much like the present situation, which he is in, largely because of Johnson.
Not a good diplomat, true. A lot worse can be said about many others here.
.
Edit to add.
So much has happened more recently, I quite forgot about Johnson’s history as Foreign Secretary…
One for Carryfast:
I was wondering about how all the different Reichs were seen, as you only mention the Third & Fourth
Wikipedia (Whether You Like It Or Not) Says:- Reich is a German word analogous in meaning to the English word “realm”. The terms … The terms “First Reich” and “Second Reich” are not used by historians, whilst the term “Fourth Reich” is used mainly in fiction and for political humour; … 
My apologies CF - I misunderstood you and thought you were being serious - you learn something every day - (well some of us do )