Only lost my n/s mirror once but couldn’t believe how helpless I felt. I still kept looking over and just saw the casing looking back at me! I refused to drive anywhere except straight to get it fixed. Checking all my mirrors is second nature, and even when you know one is missing it doesn’t stop you still looking.
The people who think that we should always see a cyclist coming up on the near side obviously think that we only need the n/s mirror and must sit at lights and roundabouts only looking in that mirror in case we see someone more important trying to squeeze past us. It’s not like we need to look anywhere else is it?
grumpybum:
Checking all my mirrors is second nature, and even when you know one is missing it doesn’t stop you still looking.
The people who think that we should always see a cyclist coming up on the near side obviously think that we only need the n/s mirror and must sit at lights and roundabouts only looking in that mirror in case we see someone more important trying to squeeze past us. It’s not like we need to look anywhere else is it?
Carryfast it surprises me that you cannot understand about bad attitudes.You just need to read some of the posts on here to see that.
Unfortunately there are some drivers who dont take driving seriously and consequently probably do not check their mirrors properly.Whether it is complacency, laziness or just arrogance I am not sure but I know it happens.
I drove tankers in London for 12 years and know exactly what goes on on these busy roads.There are times when I have seen and still do see drivers intentionally closing the gap when they see a cyclist trying to pass.This is downright dangerous and shows complete lack of professionalism.
It just annoys me intensely when drivers will not take responsibility for their bad driving which is common place on our roads these days.
Oh and by the way can you tell me what is alien about telling someone to check there mirrors regularly? What were you told?
grumpybum:
Checking all my mirrors is second nature, and even when you know one is missing it doesn’t stop you still looking.
The people who think that we should always see a cyclist coming up on the near side obviously think that we only need the n/s mirror and must sit at lights and roundabouts only looking in that mirror in case we see someone more important trying to squeeze past us. It’s not like we need to look anywhere else is it?
^ This.
Who are these people then?Any competent driver will not only check his mirrors but scan all around the area.It is not hard.
Granted there can be times that a driver can be distracted but to miss a cyclist coming up the inside when turning left stinks of incompetency to me.
albion1971:
Carryfast it surprises me that you cannot understand about bad attitudes.You just need to read some of the posts on here to see that.
Unfortunately there are some drivers who dont take driving seriously and consequently probably do not check their mirrors properly.Whether it is complacency, laziness or just arrogance I am not sure but I know it happens.
I drove tankers in London for 12 years and know exactly what goes on on these busy roads.There are times when I have seen and still do see drivers intentionally closing the gap when they see a cyclist trying to pass.This is downright dangerous and shows complete lack of professionalism.
It just annoys me intensely when drivers will not take responsibility for their bad driving which is common place on our roads these days.
Oh and by the way can you tell me what is alien about telling someone to check there mirrors regularly? What were you told?
The bit that I was referring to as being ‘alien’ was the idea and description that any driver would want to drive a truck without sufficient use of the mirrors IE which ‘should’ mean constant checking.
My point is that in most cases it can probably be taken for granted that most truck drivers are using their mirrors correctly or their accident rate would obviously become untenable and that would apply in all respects concerning collisions between trucks and all types of road users not just cyclists.Therefore the issue of the excessive rate of truck v bicycle collisions can’t just be all about the use of mirrors issue.It really is impossible to drive a truck safely without constant use of the mirrors and if drivers are doing that then I’d expect to see widespread problems concerning truck safety and collisions not just involving cyclists and such a problem could only be an issue of bad training and examination standards because it should be easy to identify wether a driver is actually driving a truck instinctively on it’s mirrors or not.
grumpybum:
Checking all my mirrors is second nature, and even when you know one is missing it doesn’t stop you still looking.
The people who think that we should always see a cyclist coming up on the near side obviously think that we only need the n/s mirror and must sit at lights and roundabouts only looking in that mirror in case we see someone more important trying to squeeze past us. It’s not like we need to look anywhere else is it?
^ This.
Who are these people then?Any competent driver will not only check his mirrors but scan all around the area.It is not hard.
Granted there can be times that a driver can be distracted but to miss a cyclist coming up the inside when turning left stinks of incompetency to me.
How does a driver ‘scan all around’ and check ahead and along both sides all at the same time before and while turning.If you’re looking in the left mirrors you’re not looking ahead or in the right hand mirrors.If you’re looking ahead or in the right hand mirrors it’s quite possible for a cyclist to ride a bike along the inside before vision is turned back to the left hand mirrors and the fact is the mirrors don’t cover the whole nearside length of a truck or in fact much at all of an artic when it’s turning much beyond straight ahead.Any attempt to convince cyclists that isn’t the case is just putting them into a dangerous false sense of security.Cyclists need to be made aware that being alongside a truck,especially within a junction,is an unnacceptable risk to them and they should stay clear wherever possible.
Carryfast:
Cyclists need to be made aware that being alongside a truck,especially within a junction,is an unnacceptable risk to them and they should stay clear wherever possible.
I think that we all agree this point. Unfortunately we are the well trained and informed and some cyclists are not. I would guess at this point you will ask why am I suggesting further training for the already well trained and informed then? It’s simply that the better trained and more aware we are, the better we are at avoiding all the others. In any case, the government has said we have to do 35 hours any way!
What a complete total load of ■■■■■■■■ , never in a month of sundays will any driver good or bad get through even half a day without checking mirrors on both sides , ive never heard such crap in my life . And as for drivers closing a gap on purpose thats ridiculous and is infact attempted murder for which the driver should be in prison . I dont believe that statement for one second and i dont believe you’ve ever driven in the real world .
Cyclist will never accept any blame for getting themselves into dangerous situations which they could quite easily have avoided .
It’s a sad fact that cyclists are their own worst enemy. Yes, there are responsible ones. But an awful lot ride with utter disregard for the rules of the road and the red mist well and truly down.
Unfortunately, drivers remember the bad cyclists a lot more easily than the good - and this is why the attitude against cyclists exists. One bad apple and all that.
I doubt it will ever change. Sadly, it is the cyclists themselves that are often oblivious of their vulnerability, not the truck/bus/car driver. In the last week I have had three cyclists perform manoeuvres in front of me that were at best utterly stupid and worst suicidal. If I had carried out such a manoeuvre on my motorcycle and been spotted, a court date would have ensued. Cyclist-walks aways without even being reprimanded-until the day it goes wrong and they leave the scene in an ambulance. At which point the driver often gets blamed…
Until you persuade all the poor cyclists to ride with respect for the rules, I’m afraid you will tend to all be tarred with the same brush. So sort them out first before laying the blame elsewhere!
Bowser, this is the reason I would recommend all motorists/truckers have a couple of days on a bike. Unfortunately vehicles closing the gap in front of you happens daily. To be fair I’ve not experienced a trucker doing it but cars & vans do it all the time. They will either pass you then pull across so far as to ensure you cannot get passed or, when cycling past queuing traffic one will spot you and pull over. They think they are being clever but it just leads to more problems.
Truckulent:
If you’re a cyclist you WILL see the truck. (if you don’t you should be in a dark room asleep and not bothering the rest of us…).
If you’re a truck driver you MAY see the cyclist. Fact
So, who is in the best position to maintain vehicle separation? If you ride a bicycle and ride up the inside of a truck I’m sorry but you are an utter nob head and will almost certainly get squashed at some stage. And it will be mostly your own fault because you have made assumptions that aren’t necessarily correct.
The fact is that whatever the rights and wrongs, push bikes do not mix with powered vehicles on today’s roads and never will again, without a high risk of confrontation. If you choose to cycle you risk getting squashed. You cannot expect in every case to blame the driver as, in a truck, visibility is impaired… On a bike it isn’t impaired at all so who is in the best position to avoid accidents?
I wouldn’t cycle simply because it is slow and (where I live) bloody hard work due to an excessive amount of hills. But if I did, I’d have the sense to keep away from large vehicles. If you play with fire you will eventually get burned!
This is exactly why these accidents happen because of drivers wanting to put the blame on the other party and not being interested in their responsibility towards the safety of all other road users including cyclists and pedestrians.
Do lorry drivers never make mistakes?Do they never cause accidents and fatalities?
We all make mistakes at times but as so called professional drivers we should be aware of the most vulnerable road users and take that extra bit of care and attention whether they are in the right or wrong.
Someone said about all drivers having to cycle for a period.Great idea although it would never happen.
With all the impatient drivers we have on our roads these days I wonder how long they would be sitting behind every queuing vehicle?
As a professional driver I find it quite disturbing to read some of the comments on here.The attitude and arrogance of some is quite unbelievable.
Can I just say that when I was training already qualified drivers some of the ones who were poor with their mirrors actually believed they were fine and that is one of the biggest problems.
LGV drivers pass a basic simple test and some develop bad habits without realising and that is where a lot of the problems lie.
Drivers need to be educated and assessed otherwise the carnage will continue.
So the two LGV tests are simple Albion? The training and test I remember in 2003 and 2007 was very intensive! I remember my trainer saying,assume everyone around you is an idiot and you’ll be fine out there! Because of this intensive training there would be much more carnage out there! HTH
Yes dessy the LGV test is a basic test and if you pass it enables you to start to learn about driving a truck.
Maybe some would class it intensive compared to a car test but it is still a relatively easy test to pass and hard to fail.
When I was training military drivers they would pass the LGV test at 17 years of age with little or no driving experience so it really is not so hard for a fully qualified car driver to pass if you have basic driving skills.
I think you would be amazed how much you can actually do wrong without failing.Obviously anything dangerous or potentially dangerous and that’s it but with a little luck I doubt there are very few who could not pass it.
albion1971:
I think you would be amazed how much you can actually do wrong without failing.Obviously anything dangerous or potentially dangerous and that’s it but with a little luck I doubt there are very few who could not pass it.
I have read some rubbish on this forum, but that takes the biscuit!!
It’s t’other way around. You would get failed for ■■■■■■■ in the yard at Atherton test centre!
Anyway, my tuppence worth on cyclists.
If a cyclist rides up the inside of any large vehicle, then they are just plain stupid. Like lots of people have already said, all cyclists can see the large vehicle, but not all large vehicle drivers can see the cyclist. Be in that stupid position and its only a matter of time before a mistake is made and you are seriously hurt. All the compensation in the world and all of the “I’m within my rights” attitude won’t bring back your life or smashed limbs. No LGV driver ever deliberately hurts a cyclist. No LGV driver ever deliberately forgets to look out for them but accidents DO happen. So cyclists, use a bit of common sense and STOP PUTTING YOURSELVES in stupid places - PLEASE!
LandyLad:
So cyclists, use a bit of common sense and STOP PUTTING YOURSELVES in stupid places - PLEASE!
^^^^ that would solve the majority of the problems
So can we take it that there is a serious disagreement even between those with an LGV training background as to the best way of dealing with the problem.We’ve got one who thinks that many Army drivers don’t have a clue in their use of mirrors when it’s obvious that the average tank transporter will need some serious use of the mirrors if it’s not going to be allowed to wipe out a lot more on it’s route than a few cyclists.
Or could it be that Albion has never actually trained anyone to actually drive,or who’s actually driven,a tank transporter in which case maybe his view has been distorted by only being involved with the training of class 3 army drivers who’ve never driven anything much bigger than a Land Rover and a four wheeler Bedford before.
As I remember it the class 2 and class 1 training and driving test certainly wasn’t something that the average village idiot would be able to pass easily.Maybe it’s just that those older generation of trainers and examiners were a bit more ‘demanding’ in what they expected at that time.
LandyLad:
So cyclists, use a bit of common sense and STOP PUTTING YOURSELVES in stupid places - PLEASE!
^^^^ that would solve the majority of the problems
So can we take it that there is a serious disagreement even between those with an LGV training background as to the best way of dealing with the problem.We’ve got one who thinks that many Army drivers don’t have a clue in their use of mirrors when it’s obvious that the average tank transporter will need some serious use of the mirrors if it’s not going to be allowed to wipe out a lot more on it’s route than a few cyclists.
Or could it be that Albion has never actually trained anyone to actually drive,or who’s actually driven,a tank transporter in which case maybe his view has been distorted by only being involved with the training of class 3 army drivers who’ve never driven anything much bigger than a Land Rover and a four wheeler Bedford before.
As I remember it the class 2 and class 1 training and driving test certainly wasn’t something that the average village idiot would be able to pass easily.Maybe it’s just that those older generation of trainers and examiners were a bit more ‘demanding’ in what they expected at that time.
So now you resort to saying you do not believe me.
Unfortunately there are some army drivers that do not have a clue just the same as some truck drivers do not have a clue and some cyclists do not have a clue.
Remember all army recruits take an LGV test whether their trade is a driver or not so it is possible that the ones that are not drivers may lack interest.I can also tell you I have trained many a village idiot and that was not just in the forces training but in civilian training as well.
albion1971:
I think you would be amazed how much you can actually do wrong without failing.Obviously anything dangerous or potentially dangerous and that’s it but with a little luck I doubt there are very few who could not pass it.
I have read some rubbish on this forum, but that takes the biscuit!!
It’s t’other way around. You would get failed for ■■■■■■■ in the yard at Atherton test centre!
Anyway, my tuppence worth on cyclists.
If a cyclist rides up the inside of any large vehicle, then they are just plain stupid. Like lots of people have already said, all cyclists can see the large vehicle, but not all large vehicle drivers can see the cyclist. Be in that stupid position and its only a matter of time before a mistake is made and you are seriously hurt. All the compensation in the world and all of the “I’m within my rights” attitude won’t bring back your life or smashed limbs. No LGV driver ever deliberately hurts a cyclist. No LGV driver ever deliberately forgets to look out for them but accidents DO happen. So cyclists, use a bit of common sense and STOP PUTTING YOURSELVES in stupid places - PLEASE!
Sorry to disappoint you but what I say is not rubbish.I have been involved in various types of training and know exactly what an examiner is looking for.
A good LGV Insructor should try to attain a 90% standard of driving where as an examiner is only looking for about 40% and they are mostly very lenient.
Regarding cyclists yes they may be stupid if they ride up the inside of you but almost everyday I see truck drivers doing far more stupid things.
As a professional driver you should accept people make mistakes and allow for it.Maybe some of the cyclists are not as intelligent as you so as a driver that never does anything wrong.
It’s a shame that a thread on such a serious subject should turn into almost a slanging match. What I’d like to see is a law which forces ALL cyclists to wear Helmets & Hi-Viz long sleeved tops at the very least. I believe News Agents & anyone else who employs cyclists to deliver for them should be held responsible for making certain ALL cyclists in their employ Have working lights & wear Helmets and Hi-Viz including Hi-Viz bags in which they carry their papers etc.
I watched the programme on TV the other night and I believe it might just still be available on BBCiPlayer. It was called “War on Britains roads”. It certainly demonstrated without doubt that fault does lay with both sides but, cyclists are being killed & something needs to be done about it.
I cycle a lot in my spare time & regularly do in excess of 100 miles a week but I do try and stay off main roads as much as possible. I still have problems with lorries though & I have yet to thank the Wincanton Milk tanker driver who overtook me going across our local common the other Sunday. He passed me so close I could have drawn a line down the side of his lorry with my finger. He couldn’t wait for the one car which was coming towards us before passing me. This demonstrates that even a careful cyclist in good Hi-Viz is at risk if a driver is determined he will NOT give him the few seconds it would have taken to wait and overtake safely. How those who cycle in town traffic get on is beyond me because drivers simply will not be patient.
