i CYCLE ON THE FOOT PATH BUT NOT LIKE A LUNATIC I GIVE PEDESTRIANS ROOM AND TIME,I ALSO HAVE A FALSE NAME IN CASE PLOD PULLS ME BUT I NEVERR HAVE BEEN MAYBE ITS BECUSE I CYCLE WITH CONSIDERATION FOR OTHERS, SAME SAS I DRIVE MY TRUCK
fuse:
i CYCLE ON THE FOOT PATH BUT NOT LIKE A LUNATIC I GIVE PEDESTRIANS ROOM AND TIME,I ALSO HAVE A FALSE NAME IN CASE PLOD PULLS ME BUT I NEVERR HAVE BEEN MAYBE ITS BECUSE I CYCLE WITH CONSIDERATION FOR OTHERS, SAME SAS I DRIVE MY TRUCK
If the law really want to change attitudes in a way that would save lives then they should start by changing the idea of you needing to have a false name for doing that in case of a pull.To one of of a wave of thanks by the law for keeping safe and maybe preventing a serious accident at some point. 
I don’t expect everyone to grind to a halt for me, only to give me enough room to ride without getting hit. Truckers are so skilled it should not be that tough.
I don’t know where this tour de France time trial guff comes from, if you saw me you would understand. I can only dream of reaching half their speeds.
I, like others cycle to work out of choice, I own 2 cars, both cost less then my bike which takes less time to get to work on. I don’t get much bother from other road users, last time it was a trucker. He stopped on the swing bridge in Newcastle to tell me to get off the road, meanwhile he held up a load of cars at the lights which then gave him loads of grief.
I’m starting to think all this cycle hating comes from the fact that truckers are not very highly thought of in this country. Cyclists are an easy group to attack so it’s open season.
It’s easy to call people that do it nutters and people who support it loonies but that changes nothing. If you want to do something go to the government e-petitions and sign one, it needs 100,000 signatures to get a talk in parliament, currently one trying to ban cycles has 9, that’s nine singles. You can also look at the ones that want trucks banned from the roads. Enjoy.
Slackbladder:
I don’t expect everyone to grind to a halt for me, only to give me enough room to ride without getting hit. Truckers are so skilled it should not be that tough.
I don’t know where this tour de France time trial guff comes from, if you saw me you would understand. I can only dream of reaching half their speeds.
I, like others cycle to work out of choice, I own 2 cars, both cost less then my bike which takes less time to get to work on. I don’t get much bother from other road users, last time it was a trucker. He stopped on the swing bridge in Newcastle to tell me to get off the road, meanwhile he held up a load of cars at the lights which then gave him loads of grief.
I’m starting to think all this cycle hating comes from the fact that truckers are not very highly thought of in this country. Cyclists are an easy group to attack so it’s open season.
It’s easy to call people that do it nutters and people who support it loonies but that changes nothing. If you want to do something go to the government e-petitions and sign one, it needs 100,000 signatures to get a talk in parliament, currently one trying to ban cycles has 9, that’s nine singles. You can also look at the ones that want trucks banned from the roads. Enjoy.
Agree with all of this
Also curryfast you say the risks outweigh the enjoyment, I have ridden anything up to 12,000 miles a year and have never actally come into contact with a motor vehcile (come close though) so i cant see how you figure that one?
And the accident/fatality stats for cyclists are actally fairly low considering, however even one death is one to many and the attitude of allot of car/truck drivers stinks i have regually had to take avasive actaion due to someone either not paying attention or being delibratly aggressive
I find the problem to be with peoples attitude rather then anything els
Slackbladder what if we cant see you ? Is that still our fault or is it the fact you hadn’t considered it ?
It really does come down to training , you cant expect all the rules to be changed to favour cyclists and to put sole blame onto other road users . Surely you must be able to see that if a cyclists could see they are getting into a situation its for them to stay away from it . We cant always see them and i dont understand how that can be blamed on everyone other than the person getting themselves into it . Any driver has other things to look out for other than cyclists there are other people .
AHT:
Slackbladder:
I don’t expect everyone to grind to a halt for me, only to give me enough room to ride without getting hit. Truckers are so skilled it should not be that tough.
I don’t know where this tour de France time trial guff comes from, if you saw me you would understand. I can only dream of reaching half their speeds.
I, like others cycle to work out of choice, I own 2 cars, both cost less then my bike which takes less time to get to work on. I don’t get much bother from other road users, last time it was a trucker. He stopped on the swing bridge in Newcastle to tell me to get off the road, meanwhile he held up a load of cars at the lights which then gave him loads of grief.
I’m starting to think all this cycle hating comes from the fact that truckers are not very highly thought of in this country. Cyclists are an easy group to attack so it’s open season.
It’s easy to call people that do it nutters and people who support it loonies but that changes nothing. If you want to do something go to the government e-petitions and sign one, it needs 100,000 signatures to get a talk in parliament, currently one trying to ban cycles has 9, that’s nine singles. You can also look at the ones that want trucks banned from the roads. Enjoy.Agree with all of this
Also curryfast you say the risks outweigh the enjoyment, I have ridden anything up to 12,000 miles a year and have never actally come into contact with a motor vehcile (come close though) so i cant see how you figure that one?
And the accident/fatality stats for cyclists are actally fairly low considering, however even one death is one to many and the attitude of allot of car/truck drivers stinks i have regually had to take avasive actaion due to someone either not paying attention or being delibratly aggressive
I find the problem to be with peoples attitude rather then anything els
Why is it that you think that bad aggressive drivers only do that in the case of cyclists.Bad aggressive drivers aren’t generally only bad and aggressive in the case of cyclists.They are the same regardless of who they share the roads with.However the issue of most casualties,such as the example shown in the recent tv programme,contained no evidence of any aggressive driving on the part of the unfortunate driver involved in running over the girl who went down the side of the truck as it turned.
The problem is mostly one of the contradiction between the fact that we don’t generally allow pedestrians to share the road with motorised vehicles.The fact is cyclists are just pedestrians riding bicycles,as ROG said,just like someone on roller skates is a pedestrian not a road user.It’s that flawed idea of cyclists being seen as road users not pedestrians which is the problem not drivers who,as your own example of casualty statistics shows,generally seem to be doing the best they can under the present bonkers idea of having cyclists mixed with road traffic on the roads.
In much of Leeds where I am the paths are in a better state than the roads! 
Cyclists are just pedestrians on bikes! That’s like saying truckers are just pedestrians in trucks, ridiculous argument.
I could say if you cannot see me, I’m 6 ft, 15 st and wear hi viz, bike lit up like a Christmas tree, you should not be driving, however, I am aware that some are not as easy to see. Wasn’t there a thread on here the other month with truckers complaining about cyclists lights being too bright, we cannot win.
In the case of accidents the trucker is usually charged pending investigation, that happens in all accidents not just with bikes. Anyway the cyclist is usually injured at best and dead at worst. If they are found to be innocent they are free, what’s the problem?
Slackbladder:
Cyclists are just pedestrians on bikes! That’s like saying truckers are just pedestrians in trucks, ridiculous argument.
I could say if you cannot see me, I’m 6 ft, 15 st and wear hi viz, bike lit up like a Christmas tree, you should not be driving, however, I am aware that some are not as easy to see. Wasn’t there a thread on here the other month with truckers complaining about cyclists lights being too bright, we cannot win.
In the case of accidents the trucker is usually charged pending investigation, that happens in all accidents not just with bikes. Anyway the cyclist is usually injured at best and dead at worst. If they are found to be innocent they are free, what’s the problem?
Thats not even worth a comeback .
Pointless post alert …
Carryfast:
AHT:
Carryfast:
The fact is in my experience of riding a bike many,if not most,pavements are suitable for cycle use and as far as I’m concerned anyone who thinks otherwise is as raving madThat could be the problem, What is you experiance of riding a bike, wobbling 3 or 4 miles to the local shops on a sunny weekend?
Rather then a 30 or 40 mile daily commute through all sorts of diffrent roads and weather conditions?Is your real problem with bikes possibly down to them only having a single drive axle?
I think it’s that idea of unrealistic commuting journeys by bicycle which could explain a lot of the problem.It seems obvious that there’s no way that anyone could cover that type of distance in a reasonable time using pavements obviously in which the need to provide adequate consideration to pedestrians applies.It also seems obvious that such distances would require that issue of every journey being seen as a Tour De France time trial.Unlike the few miles each way of my daily commute to school back in the day.
That’s of course before I was old enough to to get a driving licence and afford to buy and run a car to use for my 15-20 mile each way commute to work before which I used the bus for a year between leaving school and getting my licence.Cycling over that type of distance was never going to be a safe or practical option in my view.
The problem is that idea doesn’t fit the new pc script of reducing living standards and the raving cyclist lobby.Although having said that anyone who is mad enough to be doing a commute by bicycle,in which a road like the example of the A3,forms most of the route,then their life expectancy would be a lot more if they use the hard shoulder instead of riding a bicycle in lane 1 of a motorway class road.
Freedom of choice Geoffrey if someone wants to cycle 20 or 30 miles that’s there choice like you have the right to smoke round in your old gas guzzler
kr79:
Carryfast:
AHT:
Carryfast:
The fact is in my experience of riding a bike many,if not most,pavements are suitable for cycle use and as far as I’m concerned anyone who thinks otherwise is as raving madThat could be the problem, What is you experiance of riding a bike, wobbling 3 or 4 miles to the local shops on a sunny weekend?
Rather then a 30 or 40 mile daily commute through all sorts of diffrent roads and weather conditions?Is your real problem with bikes possibly down to them only having a single drive axle?
I think it’s that idea of unrealistic commuting journeys by bicycle which could explain a lot of the problem.It seems obvious that there’s no way that anyone could cover that type of distance in a reasonable time using pavements obviously in which the need to provide adequate consideration to pedestrians applies.It also seems obvious that such distances would require that issue of every journey being seen as a Tour De France time trial.Unlike the few miles each way of my daily commute to school back in the day.
That’s of course before I was old enough to to get a driving licence and afford to buy and run a car to use for my 15-20 mile each way commute to work before which I used the bus for a year between leaving school and getting my licence.Cycling over that type of distance was never going to be a safe or practical option in my view.
The problem is that idea doesn’t fit the new pc script of reducing living standards and the raving cyclist lobby.Although having said that anyone who is mad enough to be doing a commute by bicycle,in which a road like the example of the A3,forms most of the route,then their life expectancy would be a lot more if they use the hard shoulder instead of riding a bicycle in lane 1 of a motorway class road.
Freedom of choice Geoffrey if someone wants to cycle 20 or 30 miles that’s there choice like you have the right to smoke round in your old gas guzzler
That’s fair enough but don’t blame motor vehicle drivers because of the extra risks involved in doing that compared to driving that big old Triumph etc to work.Especially if,as I said,they want to ride a bicycle in lane 1 of the A3 instead of on the hard shoulder or alongside trucks through road junctions in London. 
True I wouldn’t fancy cycling along the a3 personally but if it is legal its done to the cyclist but everyone has to be responsible for been safe.
robinhood_1984:
Its quite ironic that one of the major reasons for not wanting to ride on the footpath are the other inconvenient footpath users such as pedestrians who behave in a way not at all condusive to cycling and may cause an obstacle by wandering around where they are not expected to go while listening to their iPod etc…exactly the same things that often cause cyclists to be knocked off their bikes when they’re the unpredictable and often invisible objects that cycle down the side of a large truck completely oblivious to the danger they are putting themselves in. Footpaths may not be suitable for cycling but neither are narrow inner city roads where three lanes are crammed into a junction approach where there is probably only suitable width for two lanes and trucks have to deal with all sorts of problems at every angle and until human evolution gives us more than two eyes and the ability to check more than X amount of mirrors, cameras and sensors in any given timeframe, cyclists will just have to be less reckless and take responsibility for their own actions and stop relying on everybody else to make up for their own shortfall in common sense.
Hear, hear!
FarnboroughBoy11:
What a load of bollox!!! What more can we do??
We check our blind spots, be extra cautious when traffic is stop start. There is only so much a driver can do from his seat, we can check our mirrors as many times as we want but in that split second we are checking the other mirror some idiot will be up the inside.It’s cyclists who need educating not the drivers!!
I would put good money on every single one of those deaths that the cyclist was on the near side. They don’t deserve to die but if they play with fire they are going to get burnt.
Having skipped through some of the good comments on here I am sure a lot of the problem with drivers and cyclists is their bad attitude towards each other as is obvious.
They both have responsibilities but both fail a lot of the time with disastrous consequences.
Someone said that if a cyclist comes up a trucks inside it is entirely the cyclists fault.Yes the cyclist maybe should not do that but an alert truck driver should see this happening in his nearside mirror and not move till he knows the cyclist is safe.From past experience a lot of drivers do not check their mirrors nearly enough.
Attitudes need to change and people need to stop blaming others for their bad driving.
albion1971:
FarnboroughBoy11:
What a load of bollox!!! What more can we do??
We check our blind spots, be extra cautious when traffic is stop start. There is only so much a driver can do from his seat, we can check our mirrors as many times as we want but in that split second we are checking the other mirror some idiot will be up the inside.It’s cyclists who need educating not the drivers!!
I would put good money on every single one of those deaths that the cyclist was on the near side. They don’t deserve to die but if they play with fire they are going to get burnt.Having skipped through some of the good comments on here I am sure a lot of the problem with drivers and cyclists is their bad attitude towards each other as is obvious.
They both have responsibilities but both fail a lot of the time with disastrous consequences.
Someone said that if a cyclist comes up a trucks inside it is entirely the cyclists fault.Yes the cyclist maybe should not do that but an alert truck driver should see this happening in his nearside mirror and not move till he knows the cyclist is safe.From past experience a lot of drivers do not check their mirrors nearly enough.Attitudes need to change and people need to stop blaming others for their bad driving.
I don’t think anyone is saying that if a cyclist gets run over by a truck it’s always entirely the cyclist’s fault.But I think you’ve missed all the comments related to the fact that it can’t always be guaranteed that the driver will always be able to see a cyclist who’s run up along the side of the truck.The fact is a truck is driven on it’s mirrors at least as much,if not more,as what what is seen ahead and that is (should be) programmed into every driver from the time they do their first runs during training and then every time they drive a truck from then on and if any examiner doesn’t see a driver making constant use of the mirrors it is (should be) an instant fail on test.Therefore it’s difficult to believe that any driver would be able to keep anything like a reasonably acceptable accident record if they don’t follow that rule throughout their driving career.
It seems too much of a coincidence that it’s mainly just cyclists that are finding themselves being run over at the side of trucks when those trucks seem to able to miss everything and everyone else and there’s no way that they would be able to miss everything and everyone else without sufficient use of the mirrors.
However ‘if’ you’re right then it would be a failure on the part of the driver’s training and examination standards from day one and/or a lack of committment,on the part of the driver,to the job of driving a truck,to the point of that driver being a total liabilty on the road to everyone that driver shares the road with,including pedestrians not just cyclists.However the accident statistics and the reason for the topic itself seems to point to it being a different issue to that.
If you’re a cyclist you WILL see the truck. (if you don’t you should be in a dark room asleep and not bothering the rest of us…).
If you’re a truck driver you MAY see the cyclist. Fact
So, who is in the best position to maintain vehicle separation? If you ride a bicycle and ride up the inside of a truck I’m sorry but you are an utter nob head and will almost certainly get squashed at some stage. And it will be mostly your own fault because you have made assumptions that aren’t necessarily correct.
The fact is that whatever the rights and wrongs, push bikes do not mix with powered vehicles on today’s roads and never will again, without a high risk of confrontation. If you choose to cycle you risk getting squashed. You cannot expect in every case to blame the driver as, in a truck, visibility is impaired… On a bike it isn’t impaired at all so who is in the best position to avoid accidents?
I wouldn’t cycle simply because it is slow and (where I live) bloody hard work due to an excessive amount of hills. But if I did, I’d have the sense to keep away from large vehicles. If you play with fire you will eventually get burned!
I agree wholeheartedly that the ‘blame game’ achieves nothing, and cyclists could certainly benefit more from training than anyone. However, as a lot has been said about blame apportionment in this thread, I dug up the only reliable set of statistics that I could find which relate to 2008 (how long to statisticians take to compile numbers?). So for interest only and not to make any point at all (apart from the fact that trucks are the safest vehicle on the roads) -
According to the Department For Transport, of collisions between Cyclists and Motor Vehicles, Police assigned blame to drivers in 60% of cases, the cyclist 30% and equal blame the remaining 10%. I would guess that the majority of these would be car SMIDSYs. The same statisticians (thank heavens for spell checkers) show that woman are safer than men and cycling per kilometre is safer than being a pedestrian which surprised me! Of huge interest is that ‘Failed to look Properly’ which is a recorded statistic has gone up year on year and is currently responsible for 40% of all accidents.
Finally, Cycling (10% of serious accidents) was the third safest form of transport after Buses (2%) and Trucks (2%), cars were 40%. Of course these are per incident and not per mile which makes trucks by far the safest form of road transport by a country mile! If nothing else, this proves the value of training and experience.
Personally, I feel much safer around trucks than cars. I have rarely been shown anything but the highest standard of professional driving from my trucking colleagues. Most cyclists feel nervous of trucks because they don’t understand their behaviour and a close pass from a tri axle trailer isn’t the most pleasant experience. A cyclist is much more likely to be hit by a car, but also more likely to survive.
With regard to the point about it being only cyclists who get trapped by a left turning truck. I can’t find any statistic specific to it, but there are listed several incidents where left turning trucks have collided with other motor vehicles, pedestrians and buildings. It is also noted that ‘pedestrian guards’ are regularly damaged at junctions.
Truckulent:
If you’re a truck driver you MAY see the cyclist. Fact
Not if it hits you from behind due to the driver watching a DVD 
Carryfast I wish I had as much confidence in truck drivers checking their mirrors as you but as an ex RTITIB LGV/PCV Instructor I have witnessed many already qualified drivers that are abysmal with their mirror checks.I have also trained young military drivers before and after passing their tests and have found they are very keen to check mirrors on test but after that they seem to think it does not matter.Again it is all to do with attitude.
Obviously there are a lot that do check but unfortunately some do not seem to realise the importance especially when turning left in a busy town.There is no room for distraction or carelessness or blaming the cyclist even if they are in the wrong.
albion1971:
Carryfast I wish I had as much confidence in truck drivers checking their mirrors as you but as an ex RTITIB LGV/PCV Instructor I have witnessed many already qualified drivers that are abysmal with their mirror checks.I have also trained young military drivers before and after passing their tests and have found they are very keen to check mirrors on test but after that they seem to think it does not matter.Again it is all to do with attitude.
Obviously there are a lot that do check but unfortunately some do not seem to realise the importance especially when turning left in a busy town.There is no room for distraction or carelessness or blaming the cyclist even if they are in the wrong.
I can’t understand how there can possibly be any choice based on ‘attitude’ at all.Either the driver of the truck is in full control of the thing or not and failiure to use the mirrors on a constant basis effectively means that the driver isn’t in control simply because 1) the rear/trailer wheels don’t ever go where the front/steer wheels go and 2) that gap in the traffic or clear piece of road that you’ve just driven the unit or front of a rigid through might not still be there by the time the rear/trailer wheels reach it.
In all cases you have to factor in the issues of human capabilities,as I said in the case of needing to look ahead,at the same time as using the mirrors both sides,to check what’s going on down the sides,concerning the course of the rear/trailer wheels round the corner and any obstructions like cyclists or pedestrians etc etc etc that might get in the way during the turn and that might come into conflict with the opposite corner tail sweep.
It’s obvious that at any point during those different conflicting demands,of continuous checking of the left and right mirrors and looking ahead,that a cyclist could get down the side of a truck without being noticed and then into the blind spots not covered by the mirrors especially in the case of an artic where most of the trailer is out of view most of the time during a turn.
What you seem to be describing,in the case of those drivers,who you say aren’t using the mirrors sufficiently,seems a totally alien way of driving a truck to me.Which would inevitably end in tears sooner or later in regard to all road users not just cyclists who are unfortunate enough to be sharing the road with any truck driven by any driver who regards mirrors and their constant use as an optional extra.