Franglais:
Yep. Thanks.
Clearly no leverage involved there…
[emoji2]
Around the gross weight of the steer axle hanging there.
Here’s a clue put a crane sling under the unit steer axle and another under the trailer axles nothing under the unit drive/rear axles then lift the outfit past the point where the fifth wheel runs out of forward horizontal articulation.
I’m not sure I would adopt the ‘what, me boss?’ pose in front of the trailer though. Structual failure is obvious…the reason a bit more nebulous. Trailer looks fairly new, situation of it looks suspicious. Perhaps it may of been best not to pose in front of it as if you were the victim.
Suedehead:
Franglais:
old 67:
Janos:
Think I would of taken a wider radius. Cutting the corner and trying to get up the steepest part would of been a gamble with traction anyway…all the liquid would run to back and leave nothing over the drive axle.I don’t think the trailer would have been in that position when it broke free ■■
Regards John.
Ah. It’s slipped off the side of the 5th wheel?
Grease smeared off right side of 5th wheel. Handle bent. Grease on mudguard. No way is that trailer on any sort of correct line to take a corner.How come there are no tyre marks across the the grass then Sherlock ? or should i say Clouseau
There are no tyre marks across the grass, because the tyres didnt get on the grass… look at the scrape mark on the tarmac, cutting in a straight line back, starting at the white marker line. That’s where the trailer broke of the unit, and the legs landed on the deck. That would place the trailer wheels just a out to try to mount the verge/bank.
It would have been physically impossible to get the trailer wheels where they are, and the trailer at that angle, coming around that bend in a forward motion, because of cut in…
Check out universally jointed fifth wheel Page 17 here.
til.scania.com/groups/bwd/docum … 002_01.pdf
It’s obvious that a standard fifth wheel shown at page 3 and page 4 and page 8 won’t allow much more than 6-8 degrees forward angle between trailer and unit.Any more angular conflict than that between the unit and trailer with no articulation left for compliance will then try to twist and tear out the pin from the trailer.
Wheel Nut:
There is normally a bit of strength left in the pin if all else fails!0
That trailer deffo looks like it’s no longer coupled to the unit. 
But not clear enough to see exactly where where they parted company. 
Carryfast:
Check out universally jointed fifth wheel Page 17 here.til.scania.com/groups/bwd/docum … 002_01.pdf
It’s obvious that a standard fifth wheel shown at page 3 and page 4 and page 8 won’t allow much more than 6-8 degrees forward angle between trailer and unit.Any more angular conflict than that between the unit and trailer with no articulation left for compliance will then try to twist and tear out the pin from the trailer.
That turntable, commonly referred to as a compensating turntable, is often used in conjunction with heavy haulage floats, to negate the inherent rigidity. Historically they were used on short, steel, chassied tanks but modern barrels are designed to flex.
The turntable is tilted forward because the trailer hit the handle after it had broken away.
That section of road does not have enough gradient difference for the turntable to reach its extent of travel. Dependant on the dimension from the pin to the front of the trailer, it is possible that the front of the trailer connected with the chassis of the prime mover.
If that is the case, the jaws should have failed before the skidplate, but there should be enough compliance in the suspension to counter that without serious damage. I cannot detect any damage or evidence to suggest a convergence of the trailer and prime mover, leading me to believe that the failure is due to material or workmanship on the skidplate or kingpin.
Star down under.:
Carryfast:
Check out universally jointed fifth wheel Page 17 here.til.scania.com/groups/bwd/docum … 002_01.pdf
It’s obvious that a standard fifth wheel shown at page 3 and page 4 and page 8 won’t allow much more than 6-8 degrees forward angle between trailer and unit.Any more angular conflict than that between the unit and trailer with no articulation left for compliance will then try to twist and tear out the pin from the trailer.
That turntable, commonly referred to as a compensating turntable, is often used in conjunction with heavy haulage floats, to negate the inherent rigidity. Historically they were used on short, steel, chassied tanks but modern barrels are designed to flex.
The turntable is tilted forward because the trailer hit the handle after it had broken away.That section of road does not have enough gradient difference for the turntable to reach its extent of travel . Dependant on the dimension from the pin to the front of the trailer, it is possible that the front of the trailer connected with the chassis of the prime mover.
If that is the case, the jaws should have failed before the skidplate, but there should be enough compliance in the suspension to counter that without serious damage. I cannot detect any damage or evidence to suggest a convergence of the trailer and prime mover, leading me to believe that the failure is due to material or workmanship on the skidplate or kingpin.
It looks like a steep climb out from that hairpin.
No reason to think that the tank would be high enough to connect with the top of the unit before the fifth wheel ran out of forward articulation.
If the fifth wheel was only pulled down at the front by the trailer hitting the handle then what’s stopping it returning to it’s normal rearward angle position after the trailer had left the unit.
It looks like it’s been jammed there possibly because the turntable pivot shaft has been bent out of alignment before tearing out the pin mounting from the trailer.Or the turntable has been jammed against the chassis mounting somehow.
It looks like the pin mounting was torn out of the trailer plate with the turntable at that angle and it was still at that angle when the trailer left it and it stayed there ?.
The location and the gradient between the unit and trailer at that bend might help to answer that question.
Carryfast:
Star down under.:
Carryfast:
Check out universally jointed fifth wheel Page 17 here.til.scania.com/groups/bwd/docum … 002_01.pdf
It’s obvious that a standard fifth wheel shown at page 3 and page 4 and page 8 won’t allow much more than 6-8 degrees forward angle between trailer and unit.Any more angular conflict than that between the unit and trailer with no articulation left for compliance will then try to twist and tear out the pin from the trailer.
That turntable, commonly referred to as a compensating turntable, is often used in conjunction with heavy haulage floats, to negate the inherent rigidity. Historically they were used on short, steel, chassied tanks but modern barrels are designed to flex.
The turntable is tilted forward because the trailer hit the handle after it had broken away.That section of road does not have enough gradient difference for the turntable to reach its extent of travel . Dependant on the dimension from the pin to the front of the trailer, it is possible that the front of the trailer connected with the chassis of the prime mover.
If that is the case, the jaws should have failed before the skidplate, but there should be enough compliance in the suspension to counter that without serious damage. I cannot detect any damage or evidence to suggest a convergence of the trailer and prime mover, leading me to believe that the failure is due to material or workmanship on the skidplate or kingpin.It looks like a steep climb out from that hairpin.
No reason to think that the tank would be high enough to connect with the top of the unit before the fifth wheel ran out of forward articulation.
If the fifth wheel was only pulled down at the front by the trailer hitting the handle then what’s stopping it returning to it’s normal rearward angle position after the trailer had left the unit.
It looks like it’s been jammed there possibly because the turntable pivot shaft has been bent out of alignment before tearing out the pin mounting from the trailer.Or the turntable has been jammed against the chassis mounting somehow.
It looks like the pin mounting was torn out of the trailer plate with the turntable at that angle and it was still at that angle when the trailer left it and it stayed there ?.
The location and the gradient between the unit and trailer at that bend might help to answer that question.
I don’t think an FM Volvo has long enough stroke engine to “rip out” a pin unless it was corroded to buggery.
.
.Maybe a 275 RR Eagle could?.. .But I doubt it.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Articulation of 5th wheel an issue?
If the pin was in good nick you could hang a trailer off it…vertically!Which part of the ‘HORIZONTAL’ articulation of the turntable didn’t you understand.So the front of the fifth wheel has hit the chassis it ain’t going to bend on its pivot any further to comply with the different angles between the steeply climbing unit on the exit of the hairpin v the not there yet climbing trailer.
That’s not the trailer pin being pulled laterally.It’s being wrenched out by leverage of the unit’s chassis trying to go up hill while the loaded trailer’s chassis says no it’s sitting level.
The unit say yes and then tears the pin mounting out of the trailer plate.
It’s one of the reasons why drawbars are the proven kings of the mountains.
What a tidal wave of warm, steaming, urine.
You don’t even understand the difference between Vertical and Horizontal.
Nice one old John 
cheers Ray
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Star down under.:
Carryfast:
Check out universally jointed fifth wheel Page 17 here.til.scania.com/groups/bwd/docum … 002_01.pdf
It’s obvious that a standard fifth wheel shown at page 3 and page 4 and page 8 won’t allow much more than 6-8 degrees forward angle between trailer and unit.Any more angular conflict than that between the unit and trailer with no articulation left for compliance will then try to twist and tear out the pin from the trailer.
That turntable, commonly referred to as a compensating turntable, is often used in conjunction with heavy haulage floats, to negate the inherent rigidity. Historically they were used on short, steel, chassied tanks but modern barrels are designed to flex.
The turntable is tilted forward because the trailer hit the handle after it had broken away.That section of road does not have enough gradient difference for the turntable to reach its extent of travel . Dependant on the dimension from the pin to the front of the trailer, it is possible that the front of the trailer connected with the chassis of the prime mover.
If that is the case, the jaws should have failed before the skidplate, but there should be enough compliance in the suspension to counter that without serious damage. I cannot detect any damage or evidence to suggest a convergence of the trailer and prime mover, leading me to believe that the failure is due to material or workmanship on the skidplate or kingpin.It looks like a steep climb out from that hairpin.
No reason to think that the tank would be high enough to connect with the top of the unit before the fifth wheel ran out of forward articulation.
If the fifth wheel was only pulled down at the front by the trailer hitting the handle then what’s stopping it returning to it’s normal rearward angle position after the trailer had left the unit.
It looks like it’s been jammed there possibly because the turntable pivot shaft has been bent out of alignment before tearing out the pin mounting from the trailer.Or the turntable has been jammed against the chassis mounting somehow.
It looks like the pin mounting was torn out of the trailer plate with the turntable at that angle and it was still at that angle when the trailer left it and it stayed there ?.
The location and the gradient between the unit and trailer at that bend might help to answer that question.I don’t think an FM Volvo has long enough stroke engine to “rip out” a pin unless it was corroded to buggery.
.
.Maybe a 275 RR Eagle could?.. .But I doubt it.
brill frainglais.to quote alex Ferguson maybe aye maybe naw cheers Ray
Franglais:
Carryfast:
It looks like a steep climb out from that hairpin.
No reason to think that the tank would be high enough to connect with the top of the unit before the fifth wheel ran out of forward articulation.
If the fifth wheel was only pulled down at the front by the trailer hitting the handle then what’s stopping it returning to it’s normal rearward angle position after the trailer had left the unit.
It looks like it’s been jammed there possibly because the turntable pivot shaft has been bent out of alignment before tearing out the pin mounting from the trailer.Or the turntable has been jammed against the chassis mounting somehow.
It looks like the pin mounting was torn out of the trailer plate with the turntable at that angle and it was still at that angle when the trailer left it and it stayed there ?.
The location and the gradient between the unit and trailer at that bend might help to answer that question.I don’t think an FM Volvo has long enough stroke engine to “rip out” a pin unless it was corroded to buggery.
.
.Maybe a 275 RR Eagle could?.. .But I doubt it.
Here’s a clue the pin mounting wasn’t torn out by the engine.
But then you can’t sort out the difference between lifting a unit off the ground by its trailer v lifting an artic outfit off the ground by its steer axle and its trailer axles leaving the unit rear/drive axles hanging free, the turntable jammed against the chassis, leaving just the pin holding it all together.The engine doesn’t even need to be running to create the inevitable resulting carnage.
very interesting experience.could have been a lot worse if it had gone over the edge…anyway…my thoughts are…how can that be recovered ?..its not as if a new pin can be welded back on is it…or maybe possible depending on the damage done where the pin broke away…
Wheel Nut:
0Easy fix once the plates welded up, 8 new bolts, bit of grease, bobs your uncle, £100 for bits
Not an inflammable tanker then? 
Pump out any load.
Crane onto low loader?
Hook up with chains onto chassis behind wrecker?
Take to workshop for proper inspection before repair.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Yep. Thanks.
Clearly no leverage involved there…
[emoji2]Around the gross weight of the steer axle hanging there.
Here’s a clue put a crane sling under the unit steer axle and another under the trailer axles nothing under the unit drive/rear axles then lift the outfit past the point where the fifth wheel runs out of forward horizontal articulation.
It`s a road…even going onto ferries etc it is very rare for a trailer to hit the catwalk. And a tank with no body beyond the rubbing plate? Fantasy.
truckinginfo.com/159708/who … ngineering.
Jost say the standard 5th wheel is rated at 150,000lbs of tractive pull. That`s about 68 tons. As I said you could hang a fully loaded trailer off it.
Fancy that, the long retired lorry driver who didn’t drive all that long when he did postulating about an incident that rarely happens and never has to him. Who on earth would have thought it
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Yep. Thanks.
Clearly no leverage involved there…
[emoji2]Around the gross weight of the steer axle hanging there.
Here’s a clue put a crane sling under the unit steer axle and another under the trailer axles nothing under the unit drive/rear axles then lift the outfit past the point where the fifth wheel runs out of forward horizontal articulation.
It`s a road…even going onto ferries etc it is very rare for a trailer to hit the catwalk. And a tank with no body beyond the rubbing plate? Fantasy.
truckinginfo.com/159708/who … ngineering.
Jost say the standard 5th wheel is rated at 150,000lbs of tractive pull. That`s about 68 tons. As I said you could hang a fully loaded trailer off it.
You’ve obviously not done to many crossings on the Irish Sea a constant problem on some boats especially with a Schmitz on
Mazzer2:
Franglais:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
Yep. Thanks.
Clearly no leverage involved there…
[emoji2]Around the gross weight of the steer axle hanging there.
Here’s a clue put a crane sling under the unit steer axle and another under the trailer axles nothing under the unit drive/rear axles then lift the outfit past the point where the fifth wheel runs out of forward horizontal articulation.
It`s a road…even going onto ferries etc it is very rare for a trailer to hit the catwalk. And a tank with no body beyond the rubbing plate? Fantasy.
truckinginfo.com/159708/who … ngineering.
Jost say the standard 5th wheel is rated at 150,000lbs of tractive pull. That`s about 68 tons. As I said you could hang a fully loaded trailer off it.You’ve obviously not done to many crossings on the Irish Sea a constant problem on some boats especially with a Schmitz on
Something Ive only rarely encountered. If you say it isnt so rare, I stand corrected.
