Frankydobo:
Six wheel double drive tractors coupled to tandem axle trailer combination up to a then staggering 44 Tons GCW.
Had to be 20t double drive unit bogie.Might as well have gone for 50t on a 4 + 2 or 55t on a 4 + 3 drawbar.With a lot less wear and tear on the roads.
One of my favourite AEC photos showing much about how the job used to be…even down to the driver’s overnight case in the cab…pure nostalgia.
[zb]
anorak:gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
The Amoco tanker looks smart. 5 axles on a '71-plate British artic suggests it might have been one of those vehicles built for the possibility of 44 ton weight limits. 800V8?In 1971 the 44 tonnes gvw hadn’t been thought of, back then 36 / 38 tonnes was the next, distant gross weight target for the UK. The petroleum distribution industry had its own powerful Technical Consultation Committee and it had the ear of the Transport Ministry. There were still concerns about artic stability running at 32 tons gvw in 1971, especially with liquids tankers, and various three axle tractor unit configurations were tried. The 6x4 layout, as with this Mammoth Major was popular with Amoco and also Air Products, both American owned companies, so they favoured the double drive unit as was the standard layout in the US. The Mammoth Major 6 tractor unit was AV760 powered and could be operated at up to 65 tonnes gvw, with a 2-speed auxiliary gearbox bolted on the back of the standard 6-speed 'box, it was a two-stick operation.
I was referring to these 44 ton prososals:
archive.commercialmotor.com/arti … -at-kelvinWhatever- those MM6 tractors look very purposeful. I found this one in my own digital “collection”:
0
Although we may have discussed this vehicle before- I have been enjoying the fruits of reverse deja vu for years!- do you what it was for? It looks like a US market tractor, with those extra lamps on the roof.
It would have been a export order but not for the North American market, it was one market UK truck manufacturers never tackled.
Frankydobo:
Certainly proposals had been discussed back in 1970 by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders and the Ministry of Transport, many Technical Meetings had been held but had been held up repeatedly not by any disagreements between the Manufacturers but by the restrictions imposed by Civil Engineers and objections from various organisations said to represent the public. The proposals discussed would if implemented allow six wheel rigid vehicles to operate at a GVW of 24 Tons, Eight wheelers at 30 Tons and Six wheel double drive tractors coupled to tandem axle trailer combination up to a then staggering 44 Tons GCW. Another qualification was the 6 bhp per Ton requirement and limitations on minimum axle spacing and maximum axle loadings, it was these last two factors that would cause serious problems with the Civil Engineer section of the MoT, because of the detrimental effect on roads and bridges.Foden went ahead and designed and built vehicles for this proposed legislation, an eight wheeler and two tractors, the six wheel tractor having the same rear bogie as the eight wheeler and fitted with a ■■■■■■■ 270bhp NT270B engine and 12 speed overdrive box the same as the other two vehicles, a 38 Ton (note ton and not tonnes) 2 axle tractor with a 240 Gardner and the eight wheeler the 180 Gardner. The six wheel tractor designated 6AC6/44 had the S60 all metal cab. With no movement on the proposed regulations all Foden could do was offer the models for export as I would think other 44Ton models by other makers went down the same road (no pun intended). This from the Foden book ‘My life with the company’ by Harold Nancollis. Cheers Franky.
In the case of AEC the 32-ton gvw Mammoth Major 6x4 tractor unit was a lightened model specifically for 32 tons, and it was quite popular for a time. Model designation was TG6RT, with a 4.5 tons rated front axle and 16 tons 4-spring suspension rear bogie. It was about 12 cwt heavier than a Mammoth Minor 6x2 tractor unit, so a subsequent loss in payload compared with the Mammoth Minor. Other heavier models of the MM6 tractor unit were available at 40, 56, and 65 tons gvw, with heavier axles ratings, and 2-spring rear bogie on the heavyweights. The MM6 rigid could also run at 56 tons off-road with a trailer; and the RAF had some of these for re-fuelling duties. I will post a photo of one. The heavier Mammoth Major sixes had the main and auxiliary gearbox setup, if the 10-speed range change main gearbox was specified with the 2-speed auxiliary 'box then 20 ratios were available. AEC produced a very wide range of vehicles for numerous applications, probably more than any other UK manufacturer, even Leyland in its pomp, something that isn’t generally acknowledged.
AEC Mammoth Major 6 RAF re-fueller. The prime mover had all the pumping equipment plus a 3,000 gallons tank. The drawbar tank was a Tecalamit / Zwicky of 4,500 gallons capacity. Empty the combination weighed 25.647 tonnes and loaded it grossed just over 46 tonnes. AV760 engine 6-speed plus 2-speed gearboxes. Photo and information from the late Group Captain Bill Taylor.
When I worked at the Fire Service training center in Tyne and Wear, the lead RTC Instructor, who was ex forces, had arranged with a mate still serving, to go down to Catterick to lift a heavy vehicle (we had nothing that big on site then) with a new set of air bags we were trialing for a Heavy Vehicle Rescue course. A new six wheel Volvo vehicle was on order to become the Brigades special Heavy Rescue Tender to deal with HGV incidents in our area. When we got down there one of the above Mammoth Major Tankers had been turned on its side for us, we had a look over it and although it was good to see this still in excellent condition vehicle which had pretty much gone from our roads by the 90’s, it was also sad that it had been dumped on its side with the resulting damage that came with that. Anyway we set about rigging up the bags and air lines which would operate from normal 200bar BA cylinders through a hand held control unit. The bags themselves were like large discs with a central threaded screw on the base which could be screwed onto the other bags top connection so a number of bags could be built to give the required height needed.
The bags themselves were a great success raising the Tanker and job done we had a bit of a conflab. The Army Sgt Major asked us if the bags would lift a Tank, my mate was a bit sceptical and obviously for him didn’t want to damage the equipment loaned to us for trial. However we talked him round and although we thought this might be a step too far for these bags a Chieftain Tank was quickly arranged and brought round and we set things up, cautiously at first and keeping as much distance as possible we began the lift, we needn’t have worried and we were quite pleased and surprised the tank was raised completely off the ground although we didn’t take it too high. These bags of the same design are still used on the latest Rescue Tender today and used in the Tyne and Wear area when needed during HGV collision rescues to save lives. I’ve no idea what happened to the poor MM though, maybe someone made use of it.
Although not an AEC, this is the boy you need to see turn up if you get into a spot of bother in a truck. Franky.
I remember Wright Brothers in Bradford running an ex military what I thought was a Marshall but could have been a Mammoth Major now I think about it. It was fitted with a crane and the driver told me it was very low mileage , they closed shortly afterwards so I don’t know what happened to it , this would have been around 2003
gingerfold:
It would have been a export order but not for the North American market, it was one market UK truck manufacturers never tackled.
Except for the ‘specialists’ like us just down the road in Feltham taking on Oshkosh on its own turf and winning out.Can find the Logan and Oakland orders but not Chicago O Hare. 
AEC was a main supplier of vehicles to all branches of the armed forces, an involvement dating from WW1 to 1979 when Southall was closed. The following photos are from the collection of the late Bill Taylor. Bill joined the RAF from school as an engineering apprentice at RAF Halton, and retired with the senior rank of Group Captain. Bill recognised the engineering quality of AEC vehicles and became an enthusiast for the marque, amassing a very sizeable collection of unrestored AECs before his untimely death 18 months ago. A native of Lincolnshire, Bill was also very knowledgeable about many of the Lincolnshire hauliers.
Matador production resumed in 1953 and several were ordered by the RAF. This one was based with a signals company and it was a mobile generator.
Mk.1 Militants were rated for a 10-tons payload, available as 6x4 or 6x6 formats, this 6x6 was a Witham Sales at Grantham in 1981
LWB Mandator Mk. V built as a transfer carrier for Blue Steel Cruise missiles. This one was on display at RAF Wittering.
Based on a 2GM4RA Mercury chassis this was an air transportable 2,000 gallons refueller. The top half of the basic cab was removed along with the steering wheel to gave a uniform height in the transporter aircraft. Konsin is a very expensive aircraft de-icing fluid
LWB Mandator Mk.V re-fuellers at the Royal Naval base at Yeovilton in October 1977. Also visible a Mammoth Major Mk.111 Six re-fueller which would have been about 25 years old at that time.
Slightly different than the airfield re-fullers this was a road-going version intended for overseas duties in transferring fuel to support Harrier and helicopter squadrons. This was photographed in Germany in 1991.
In addition to the Ergo-cabbed Mammoth Major Six tankers the RAF also had a sizeable fleet of MM6 load carriers, with DROPS facility for either containers or flats. This well-loaded example has Bloodhound missiles on its drawbar trailer.
The Mercury tractor unit was the workhorse of the RAF transport fleet, using various types of trailer for different types of loads. This one was photographed in May 1978.
Mercury with ‘Queen Mary’ trailer carrying the fuselage of a vintage aircraft arriving at RAF Germany maintenance unit 431.
Mercury with an RAF exhibition trailer at Middle Wallop in July 1982
Mammoth Major Six de-icer. The cherry picker basket could extend to a height of 74 feet. The vehicle weighed 23.285 tonnes and because of their highly specialist role with limited use they remained in service until the mid-2000s, going on for 40 years old.
Based on the Militant Mk.1 6x4 chassis this was a former RAF air-transportable re-fueller in service with B.W.O.C. at North Weald airfield in May 1989
What would have been the last orders recieved by AEC from the forces and around what year Graham?
ramone:
What would have been the last orders recieved by AEC from the forces and around what year Graham?
The last AECs built for the armed forces were the Mammoth Major Six nuclear warheads carriers, built in the last months of Southall in 1979. Some were assembled from spares because production had all but ceased. They were always seen in convoy of 4 or 5 Mammoth Majors, escorted by RAF Police and with a recovery truck, either AEC Militant Mk.III or Scammell bringing up the rear. When they were replaced after 20 years service rumour had it that some were mothballed at RAF Wittering… if you don’t get any more posts from me it will because I’ve been arrested for breaching the Official Secrets Act. 
Keep your head down Graham , i would imagine they would be low mileage
ramone:
Keep your head down Graham , i would imagine they would be low mileage
I used to see the convoys quite frequently in the 1980’s / '90’s when I was out and about more. Quite often on the M4 / M25. They also serviced the nuclear submarine bases of Faslane and Coulport in Scotland.
gingerfold:
ramone:
Keep your head down Graham , i would imagine they would be low mileageI used to see the convoys quite frequently in the 1980’s / '90’s when I was out and about more. Quite often on the M4 / M25. They also serviced the nuclear submarine bases of Faslane and Coulport in Scotland.
A very versatile vehicle soon after the war , they were converted to all manner of transport requirements — toshboy
This is a much better photo of a Mammoth Major Six nuclear warheads carrier. The cabs had bullet proof glass and other armour plating, so I was informed. It was described thus, “one man can tilt a cab on his own on a normal AEC, one man will never tilt one of those cab on his own”.
Classic WW2 photo. The AEC fuel bowser was one of the few AEC models never to have a model name. They were either War Department 854 (petrol engine) 6x6 petrol tanker, or O.854 (Diesel engine) War Department 6x6 petrol tanker. They have been known as 6x6 Matadors.
One of the early Mk.111 based 10 cubic yard dumptruks on trial at Arkwright colliery. There is a you tube video of these trials featuring AEC, Foden, Scammell, and Euclid dump trucks. The three British designed vehicles came through with flying colours; the Euclid got bogged down.
AEC Mk.V based 10 cu. yd. Dumptruk, a very tough and reliable vehicle.
And the big one, the AEC 18 cu. yd. Dumptruk that had the turbo-charged AEC AVT 1100 engine (18 litres). There was a 15 cu.yd. version with a normally aspirated AV 1100 engine.
