Was my last post invisible lol 
Kammac was the name given to the company first setup by Brian Kamel and his wife in the late seventies. the name came from the first three letters of Brian’s surname, and the first three of his wife’s maiden name (MacDonald).
They originally started as fruit and vegetable hauliers around West Lancashire, and their first proper base was at Brown Edge Farm on Southport Road in Scarisbrick. When the farm was sold for development in the early eighties (houses now stand there) Brian took the opportunity to move to what had been derelict window frame manufacturing premises at the bottom of Abbey Lane in Burscough. This had previously been a brickworks and had at one time been known in the locality as ‘Abbey Kiln’ for that reason.
Kammac utilised the warehousing on the site for a lucrative contract with Nacanco at Skelmersdale, which saw the storage and distribution of empty cans to drinks manufacturers across the UK. The fledgling company used mainly second-hand F86s and F88s, pulling tall curtainsiders with the Rebel Flag on either side (later revised to KAMMAC TRUCKING)
As the Nacanco work brought regular money into the company, new ‘flat-top’ F10s were acquired through Lancashire Trucks at Kirkby, all painted with the same garish livery, but always with different colours applied. Each vehicle was sub-let to a self-employed driver - a strange setup, which seemed to be the start of the financial troubles that dogged the company. The fleet was always immaculate, and local schoolboys were employed at weekends to keep them ‘just-so’, with each having a specific part of each wagon to clean (some cleaned windows, some cleaned cabs, some cleaned chassis, etc.) For a very short period I got the duff job of scrubbing curtains - no such H&S as we see today, and after a whole day of being hoisted up on a FLT applying and washing in Vyclean, you didn’t see much at all!!
Things really started to go downhill after the much publicised Salford Van Hire deal, whereby Kammac had wagons on lease and the fleet livery was standardised. They were pioneers of the new ‘pusher’ F10s, which were indeed supplied new as 4x2s, being modified by Southworths from new and warranted by Volvo as proper 6x2s - Brian visited Volvo in Sweden at the time to see them being built and was quoted in TRUCK magazine as saying he was not impressed with the (soon to be released) FL10 and would continue to use F10s
It was around 1987 that Kammac acquired the 6x2 DAF 3300s, and local observers could see more storm clouds looming. Not long afterwards the DAFs were seen all parked up in 4s in the yard, and the Volvos disappeared, soon to be seen on the roads of Bootle signed as Rimrose Truck Hire. They also went bang a short while later, with trailers being found by agents for the administrators on farmland all around West Lancashire.
Leggett Freightways took over the Burscough facilites soon after, and the sounds of 8-cylinder Gardners rang-out as they found their feet; Kammac was no more.
Brian started again in the same yard not long after with a company called White Line Transport, (suitably apt, given the story the film of the same name told some years earlier) using second-hand motors of whatever marque were available - one notable unit being a day-cab Seddon-Atkinson 401 with a Gardner 6LXC in it - some come-down from the sizeable fleet of immaculate Volvos a very short time earlier. Another was a V10 Mercedes.
Before long White Line were gone as fast as they’d appeared and Kammac was wound up officially. The name was acquired and a new company was setup and survives to this day in storage, packaging and distribution from their base at Skelmersdale.
Brian Kamel lived in Mawdesley in Lancashire, and his death was reported in the Ormskirk Advertiser in the nineties.
collycoltas:
Hi all, do any of you remember george hickson (hicky) and his son who’s name escapes me ? Last time i spoke to his son he was driving for maritime but that was a long time ago. cheers paul
Hi Paul,remember him very well,was on the ACT job,sometimes had few pints with him on a Saturday afternoon down in leeds,he lived in seacroft and his son lived just down the road,but also I can not remember his sons name,may not be on here after next Friday.holiday down in france,booked a cottage 5 meters from the beach keith
by god marky you are a mine of information mate! 
Crikey Marky, what an essay, a mine of Kamel info.
Some things you just remember Mal - I just noticed that someone was asking about Kammac, and NOBODY who lived in Burscough in the 70s & 80s didn’t know about them.
I went to school with two of Brian’s nephews so I got to know from them what was happening, as well as many, many others who knew the inside track.
240 Gardner:
boden:
Kamac had a batch of standard wheelbase F10 's converted with a pusher axle without extending the chassis, after they closed down Salford Van put them in the spot hire fleet and we occasionally had one, though I never used one myself, Around 87 there was a good number of DAF 2800 types in Kamacs distinctive colours parked up at the back of a Salford Uni building for weeks.Salford Van Hire took quite a hit from Kammac at the time, I think. We looked at some of the equipment in connection with Kellogg work, and I recall that the actual owned assets of the company were rather limited! A few old F88s and perhaps some old DAFs, and certainly none of the new gear or most of the trailers.
I might be wrong, but I think that some of the Kammac people surfaced later with Trans Freight Europa and Allen Munro Transport (neither still with us, of course!)
The re-born Kammac was set up to do packaging/re-packaging and associated transport at various Whitbread sites
Trans Freight Europa was Trevor Ratcliffe and he ran quite a few different companies alongside TFE including TMC who were a tachograph analysis company operating out of the office block on Potter Place (opposite TFE). Trevor also bought and sold vehicles from the same yard at Pimbo, Skelmersdale and I believe it was the place that Peter Davis (Hyde) got one or two of his (now restored) Fodens. I certainly remember a very capable AEC Mammoth Major recovery wagon that they used.
Trevor was known for running a fleet that was almost totally Fodens - and they weren’t all new motors. The management team all had white diesel 190 Mercedes cars which had A1 - A20 TFE registration numbers.
I believe the TFE operation was wound-up and the premises sold to Securicor around 1993.
Allen Munro himself ran the haulage business in his name until it went POP - I don’t believe he was ever associated with Kammac. There is still Allen Munro Commercials (which has a Nooteboom franchise) who operate from Burscough Industrial Estate, but I know not if the mann himself is still involved operationally.
And for another topic to discuss 
SAY Transport from Derby, all high powered Mercs. much Stainless Steel but no Brass
Discuss
West Hallam Ram:
Can anyone remember the west indian who drove an ERF for them, the first black man I saw driving an artic, late 70s, early 80s.
I remember this guy, and I’m sure his name was Donald, only a short guy if i remember rightly.
I met him in Italy, long long ago, Same time as when I took the photos that are still in my attic.
When I eventually get back to work I will find the number of one of our old drivers who regularly did Italy for Leslie Trucking, and often ran with these guys from A-One. I know he has lots of info and photos from those days (late 70s /early 80s.
I was thinking of SAY (along with John Dee) after I posted the stuff about Kammac.
They had big-power motors (from many manufacturers) but disappeared as fast as they were getting their articles printed in the magazines.
I remember seeing the big 480 Powerliner on the Lift Bridge roundabout going into Seaforth one morning and thinking “how are they making it pay?” Pretty soon afterwards they were gone.
Jack Graham:
keith 2:
Archie Paice:
keith 2:
Mark R:
Ive also found a photo of an A One F12, reg no DHD 366Y has the name Alec on the front.Hi Mark,any chance of posting that photo on here,thanks keith
Would that be Alec McKinnon ? A big bloke, a real nice bloke. If I remember he lived just down Gelherd Rd about a quarter of a mile towards the city, opposite another site of A1.
Hi Archie,yes you are right,Alec I think got this truck from chris marshell when he left,Jack may tell us,keith
There is only one Alec Kinnon, yes he is a big guy great to be with, getting older, cant drink as much as he used to, and guess what, he’s driving for!!, dare I say it!!!no I cant but they have a trucking program on TV, so it’s up to you to guess.
But he’s still a great guy to be with,!!!:-Jack
Hi Jack,Alec is now retired ,I do not think there are any ex a one drivers left there now,keith
Came out of nowhere did SAY, I can remember being introduced to him at a truck painting company who were based in our yard, my main concern was the cost of the paint job, AND all the extras, as I was running a small fleet of second hand MAN bangers, he dismissed my interest, by stating that the finance company would pay, it it was not a problem , so that was me sorted.
I thought this was a disaster waiting to happen.
I know I went to a comprehensive, but I was always taught that finance cost money, and its you who pays.
Not long after this, I was offered a very smart F10, all singing and dancing, it belonged to one of his subbies, who fell for the spiel, and did not last past his first monthly payment.
J969 PFA , eminox stacks, the lot, a cracking tool, but it never made me want to operate flash motors, sooner reap the profits AND pay the driver the deserved rate, not the going rate. I ran it for a couple of years, as a pay-as-you-go rental deal, £300.00 a week all in @ 38 tons.
As the fleet got bigger, so did his overheads, then the viscious circle began.
He did a lot of very well paying jobs, but cut the rate, just to keep the customer happy, I always thought good service did that.
He took the Kamac route, started leasing everything, whilst the going is good, this route is not a problem, but the second there is a problem, the finance company show no mercy.
SAY went under, their main lease company was Pentagon Rentals in Derby, they were left with a big debt, and persued Stuart for many years after [LTD status does not help, beware]
He also paid the drivers poorly, worked them very hard, Kent to Glasgow in one hit, was the norm, and took on young drivers, who fell for the flash motor syndrome.
They also loaded very heavy, they used to put two loads on, use the air suspension and engine power to disguise any short commings, and reap the double rate payment, less a discount to the customer, Kent Wire comes to mind, I have worked with a lot of his ex drivers, and their stories were mind boggling at times.
West Hallam Ram
I read about this outfit and their big motors but my only experience of them reflects what you say .I was parked outside Lowfields(Sainsburys) at Middleton around 90 when a Merc Powerliner pulled alongside and the young lad at the wheel asked me if this was right place, I said it was and join the queue .He had a few pallets on a a flatbed and was pulled around in front of me.I was in a gutless wonder F7 but on top dollar moneywise, which as far as I’m concerned has always been the bottom line and never mind the wagon, they are all ok nowadays but some are better than others.
Mal:
:lol:
i also remember the a1 ad in headlight, what was that pallet place in Manchester, andersons? the pallets were all shapes and sizes and total [zb] and all over the place a nightmare to get any distance! its a shame they finished the headlight really.
Mal, not too sure about andersons, but UNIT pallets @ Golbourne were in there every month, I think “unit” was their new name, I think they went bust and re-appeared as unit, i may be wrong, diesel fumes do funny things to the memory cells.
We were taking pallet blocks to Unit Pallets from Rocheford dock in Essex, if you think odd shaped pallets were a pain, try these mothers, very difficult in hold in, they came in from Holland, i have never looked at a pallet block in the same light again.
I carry a couple, they come in handy for chocking a trailer, if the need arises.
boden:
West Hallam RamI read about this outfit and their big motors but my only experience of them reflects what you say .I was parked outside Lowfields(Sainsburys) at Middleton around 90 when a Merc Powerliner pulled alongside and the young lad at the wheel asked me if this was right place, I said it was and join the queue .He had a few pallets on a a flatbed and was pulled around in front of me.I was in a gutless wonder F7 but on top dollar moneywise, which as far as I’m concerned has always been the bottom line and never mind the wagon, they are all ok nowadays but some are better than others.
Boden, a man after my own heart, but try saying that to the kids of today, I have had kids in, looking for a job, who demand to go straight to the top, truck wise, no waiting, no earning your stripes, no its, the new DAF XF95 or nothing !!!
The guys driving the new DAFs have been with me 13 years and 6 years and 3 years, respectively, give me a break nipper !!!
I have done more miles in reverse, comes to mind !!!
marky:
I remember seeing the big 480 Powerliner on the Lift Bridge roundabout going into Seaforth one morning and thinking “how are they making it pay?” Pretty soon afterwards they were gone.
thats the rub marky, i made mine pay, but it was 12 mth old when i got it, and i save d a massive ammount on the price. also, i didnt run for ■■■■ all, containers i did for 1 week for instance, and said no ta! topblock rates are good enoguh though not the best.
West Hallam Ram:
Came out of nowhere did SAY, I can remember being introduced to him at a truck painting company who were based in our yard, my main concern was the cost of the paint job, AND all the extras, as I was running a small fleet of second hand MAN bangers, he dismissed my interest, by stating that the finance company would pay, it it was not a problem , so that was me sorted.I thought this was a disaster waiting to happen.
I know I went to a comprehensive, but I was always taught that finance cost money, and its you who pays.
As the fleet got bigger, so did his overheads, then the viscious circle began.
He did a lot of very well paying jobs, but cut the rate, just to keep the customer happy, I always thought good service did that.
He took the Kamac route, started leasing everything, whilst the going is good, this route is not a problem, but the second there is a problem, the finance company show no mercy.
you certainly knwo the score ram! its simple aint it, like the charles dickens character says
20 quid a year in, spend 19 quid a year bliss, 20 quid a year in and spend 20 quid and a shilling misery!
well, im sure its something like that but its true aint it
West Hallam Ram:
[Mal, not too sure about andersons, but UNIT pallets @ Golbourne were in there every month, I think “unit” was their new name, I think they went bust and re-appeared as unit, i may be wrong, diesel fumes do funny things to the memory cells…
i heard of unit but i dont think thats the firm, i could have swore andersons or summat like that. i really just remember how ■■■■ the loads were. they went to briutish tissue maesteg.
you know im sure it was around the trafford park area, they were 2nd hand pallets the tatters bought in, and were all sizes! not neat loads like the old chep. this would have been when i worked for raymonds about 82-83, youre right ram diesel must shag the memry a bit god knows i’d be in the nick if my memory had to save me!
boden:
.I was in a gutless wonder F7 but on top dollar moneywise, which as far as I’m concerned has always been the bottom line and never mind the wagon, they are all ok nowadays but some are better than others.
bang on right boden, i started my owner driver carreer with a 1625 merc, an origional gutless wonder all the lads laughed at it, and me. it was a bargain, low milage, full service history wouldnt pull the proverbial off you granny! but what a motor, it never missed a beat and i thrashed the devil out of it. then when i got my 480, i could afford it! a lot of them that laughed went bust, i didnt gloat they dont deserve it, but the lesson is that too high overheads will kill ya every time!