Is it possible/legal to work 5 X 15+ hour shifts in a row whilst
double manning as long as 9hrs rest is taken before the start of the next shift ?
Regards
Mark
froggat:
Is it possible/legal to work 5 X 15+ hour shifts in a row whilst
double manning as long as 9hrs rest is taken before the start of the next shift ?
Regards
Mark
As long as your total weekly working time doesn’t exceed 60 hours and the time between weekly rest periods doesn’t exceed 144 hours, yes it’s perfectly legal.
Bear in mind that working time doesn’t include breaks or POA so probably won’t be a problem for either driver on multi-manning.
edit: Also bear in mind that to take advantage of the daily rest concession when multi-manning both drivers must be available to share the driving and must start within 1 hour of each other.
Thank you Mr Tachograph
Can I assume that you can therefore reduce
your daily rest to 9hrs more than the normal
3 times ?
Regards
froggat:
Thank you Mr Tachograph
Can I assume that you can therefore reduce
your daily rest to 9hrs more than the normal
3 times ?
Regards
If you’re multi-manning the regulations require you to have a 9 hour daily rest period completed within 30 hours from the start of the shift, so the 9 hour rest is not a reduced daily rest period and can be done every-time you’re multi-manning.
So as long as the multi-manning requirements are met there’s nothing to stop you having a 9 hour daily rest period on 5 consecutive shifts between weekly rest periods.
Thanks once again Mr Tachograph
Mark
Sorry to drag up an old topic but was looking for clarification on something
I found my self pondering how many reduced rests I’ve had last week when I got into a bit of a pickle on Friday with traffic. Here’s how my week went;
Mon 0400 start finished 1930 (double manned rigid-night out)
Tue 0800 start finished 1930 (double manned 2nd day return to base at end of shift)
Wed 0500 start finished 1245 (arctic container run & back to base)
Thu 0500 start finished 1945 (artic customer deliveries & back to base)
Fri 0500 start finished 1930 (rigid customer deliveries & back to base)
My question is have I taken two or the full three reduced rests for the week?
Thursday & Friday I’ve exceeded 13hrs shift time on my own so both count as a reduced rest period no question- but does the gap between finishing Tuesday double manned and Weds now count as a reduced also as I’ve gone over to single manned?
SaintAndy:
Sorry to drag up an old topic but was looking for clarification on somethingI found my self pondering how many reduced rests I’ve had last week when I got into a bit of a pickle on Friday with traffic. Here’s how my week went;
Mon 0400 start finished 1930 (double manned rigid-night out)
Tue 0800 start finished 1930 (double manned 2nd day return to base at end of shift)
Wed 0500 start finished 1245 (arctic container run & back to base)
Thu 0500 start finished 1945 (artic customer deliveries & back to base)
Fri 0500 start finished 1930 (rigid customer deliveries & back to base)My question is have I taken two or the full three reduced rests for the week?
Thursday & Friday I’ve exceeded 13hrs shift time on my own so both count as a reduced rest period no question- but does the gap between finishing Tuesday double manned and Weds now count as a reduced also as I’ve gone over to single manned?
You’ve had 3 reduced daily rest periods.
The DVSA seem to have back tracked on the multi-manning rules and are now saying that even when you’re multi-manned a rest period of less than 11 hours is a reduced daily rest period.
Thank you tachograph this is the bit that was eluding me
I don’t do double manned all that regularly (probably 4/5 times a year to cover holidays of other drivers when we get a bit quiet) my understanding was as your November post that although a minimum of 9hrs is required in 30 that none of these are counted as reduced and you could do them continuously for 5 days if you wanted to.
Thank you for the clarification
As tachograph has clarified DVSA now say any rest of less than 11 hours counts as a reduced rest for a multi manned crew.
There’s nothing to stop a multi man crew working a 15+ hour day and having 11 hours off though, so it only limits the length of rest, not the length of day. With 11 hours rest it is still possible to be on duty 19 hours.
The fact you had a shift as single manned makes no difference.
shep532:
As tachograph has clarified DVSA now say any rest of less than 11 hours counts as a reduced rest for a multi manned crew.There’s nothing to stop a multi man crew working a 15+ hour day and having 11 hours off though, so it only limits the length of rest, not the length of day. With 11 hours rest it is still possible to be on duty 19 hours.
The fact you had a shift as single manned makes no difference.
You are totally spot on with your DVSA interpretation remarks. I have now compiled a report with the backing of 3 of the biggest software analysis companies to challenge this. For example: drivers take reductions on Fri Sat Sun and therefore according to DVSA have to take 11 each on Monday. Monday is the first day of a new Fixed Week and the drivers could drive 2 x 10 each = 20 hours. But they can’t as they only have a spread of 19 available!!
The EU Regs are purposive regs and this change by DVSA totally contradicts this.
There are some 20 points as to why their interpretation is wrong and I can’t wait for the first challenge. But it will lead to a Ticket fest against non-GB drivers as on the continent 9 hours is not a reduction!!!
Maigret:
shep532:
As tachograph has clarified DVSA now say any rest of less than 11 hours counts as a reduced rest for a multi manned crew.There’s nothing to stop a multi man crew working a 15+ hour day and having 11 hours off though, so it only limits the length of rest, not the length of day. With 11 hours rest it is still possible to be on duty 19 hours.
The fact you had a shift as single manned makes no difference.
You are totally spot on with your DVSA interpretation remarks. I have now compiled a report with the backing of 3 of the biggest software analysis companies to challenge this.
Drivers’ hours aren’t really my ‘thing,’ but I’ve quite enjoyed a little read that’s taken me off my usual subject. 
I can see that a multi-manned driver only legally needs (min) 9 hrs rest within a (max) 30hr shift, which is in Article 8(5).
However, I’m wondering whether the present DVSA interpretation is based on something that they know has been brought about under Article 11?
The only caveat that I can see is that 561/2006 Article 11 permits certain adjustments of Articles 6-9 to happen, but I’ve no knowledge of whether any such adjustments have/haven’t been added to UK national legislation somewhere?
Otherwise, and on a reading of what’s actually written, IMHO they’re making it up.
No names and no pack drill, but I’ve dealt with two separate instances when VOSA (as it was then) had shall we say… err, hmm, made a “mistake” with ADR. After attempts at friendly persuasion in one of those cases became futile, a phone call to London soon had it sorted. The other one thanked me for my explanation.
(It seemed to me that they’d made things up as they went along, but it’s possibly unkind of me to think in that way. 
)
For those Anoraks on here, how many have seen the CORTE document from 2013/14 - it was produced with the backing of the EU Transport & Social bodies and was an attempt to standardise the interpretation of the EC Drivers Hours Regs by all the enforcement Agencies throughout Europe.
The DVSA were on of the leads in this and my recollection of the Document was that there was no reference to 9 hours being a reduction for double crewed vehicles. This of course mirrored their interpretation in all previous VOSA DVSA publications both hard copy and online. In only changed, without justification or explanation, in March this year with their latest online publication.
They have been wrong before …but non-GB vehicles and drivers would appear to be highly vulnerable, especially with the DVSA about to get the retrospective 28 day Fixed Pen allowance, as non GB drivers will not be aware of the DVSA interpretation. So what won’t be an offence in Liepzig will be in Leeds!