If I do a double manned shift of 15h followed by a 9h rest does it count as a reduced rest or not? From what I can remember of double manning it doesn’t.
The reason I ask is I’ve already done 3 shifts over 13h since my last weekly rest and LT and I are double manning the truck tomorrow with a very good chance that the shift will be over 13h.
TIA,
Paul
Double manning only requires a 9 hour rest period, the old regs used to be 22 hours duty and 8 hours rest.
By way of derogation from paragraph 2, within 30 hours
of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in
multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at
least nine hours.
I’m not convinced that the 9 hour rest is not a reduced daily rest period 
The term “daily rest period” covers a regular daily rest and a reduced daily rest, article 4 states that any rest period of at least 9 hours but less than 11 hours is a reduced daily rest period.
I can’t see anything in article 8 that changes that for multi-manning, though I have to admit that VOSAs booklet GV262 seems to lend itself to the idea that only 9 hours daily rest is required.
The fact that you go over the 13 hours isn’t important because you’ll be double manning so you have 30 hours to get the daily rest period completed.
I could be wrong about this but it looks like a reduced daily rest to me 
I read it as: multi-manning - 9hrs daily rest doesn’t count as a reduction.
Article 8 Para 5 offers derogation to Para 2 in a multi-manning situation. It’s clumsily written, but why mention the words “of at least 9 hours.”? The could of put a full stop after “a new daily rest period.”, having already defined it as regular/split or reduced.
tachograph:
I’m not convinced that the 9 hour rest is not a reduced daily rest periodThe term “daily rest period” covers a regular daily rest and a reduced daily rest, article 4 states that any rest period of at least 9 hours but less than 11 hours is a reduced daily rest period.
I can’t see anything in article 8 that changes that for multi-manning, though I have to admit that VOSAs booklet GV262 seems to lend itself to the idea that only 9 hours daily rest is required.
The fact that you go over the 13 hours isn’t important because you’ll be double manning so you have 30 hours to get the daily rest period completed.
I could be wrong about this but it looks like a reduced daily rest to me
what made you change your mind? I think it is fairly clear in 561/2006
tachograph:
For the first hour of a multi-manned journey a co-driver isn’t required, but is compulsory after the first hour if you wish to take advantage of the different daily rest requirements.
This is to allow for a second driver being picked up away from the start of the journey.It probably goes without saying that for multi-manned vehicles the same driving hours and break rules apply as a single manned vehicle, but the daily rest rules are different.
Within 30 hours from the start of the shift you should have completed a daily rest period of at least 9 hours.
Whilst you’re the co-driver, as long as you’re not doing any work the first 45 minutes of the POA recorded on your driver card will be viewed as a break by VOSA, this is because you can have a break whilst in the passenger seat, but the digital tachograph can’t be set to break for the co-driver.
You can read more about the multi-manning regulations on page 17 here
As far as I’m aware the WTD rules (breaks ec’t) don’t change for multi-manning.
macplaxton:
I read it as: multi-manning - 9hrs daily rest doesn’t count as a reduction.Article 8 Para 5 offers derogation to Para 2 in a multi-manning situation.
IMHO Mac, that might be the answer.
macplaxton:
It’s clumsily written, but why mention the words “of at least 9 hours.”? The could of put a full stop after “a new daily rest period.”, having already defined it as regular/split or reduced.
Now Mac, here’s where I disagree slightly…
IMHO, “Regular/split or reduced” refers to Article 8(2) and covers single manning.
From reading Article 8(5), I think the definition of a minimum amount of rest in a multi-manning situation needed to go exactly where it is in order to give a clear definition of the minimum acceptable rest in that very particular different situation.
I’ll be watching what other posters write with great interest though. 
Did you notice my body-swerve around the unmentionable “E” word?
EC 561/2006 states that “within 30 hours of the end of a daily or weekly rest period, a driver engaged in multi-manning must have taken a new daily rest period of at least nine hours”.
There’s no question that there’s a derogation from article 8.2 for the multi-manning daily rest requirements but I don’t see any derogation from the definition of a reduced daily rest as stated in article 4 (g).
Article 4 (g) states that “reduced daily rest period’ means any period of rest of at least nine hours but less than 11 hours”.
I can’t see where it says that the minimum of 9 hours rest for multi-manning is any different from any other 9 hour rest period which article 4 (g) says is a reduced daily rest.
dieseldave:
I’ll be watching what other posters write with great interest though.
Me to
I’m waiting for another set of eyes too!
Re-reading it all I think (apart from 8(5) needing to be re-worded in a similar fashion to 8(2) to make it clearer) that the derogation just extends the 24h period to a 30h period, everything else remaining the same?
Is the German or French versions any more precise? Or is it all lost in translations?
Good job I don’t do multi-manning any more!
macplaxton:
Re-reading it all I think (apart from 8(5) needing to be re-worded in a similar fashion to 8(2) to make it clearer) that the derogation just extends the 24h period to a 30h period, everything else remaining the same?
That’s the way I read it to, the daily rest requirement is as single manned except that the 24 hour period is extended to 30 hours.
The daily rest period when multi manning is not a reduced rest period. This question has come up a few times in the past and geebee45 put it to bed in 2008 and in 2009 Despite the best efforts of ROG with spectacular Trumpetness to convince geebee45 he was wrong on the 2009 occasion. 
geebee45:
The rest period of 9 hours for a driver involved in multi-manning is counted as a Regular daily rest, not a Reduced.
geebee45:
Let’s end the argument.When a vehicle is multi-manned the daily rest requirement is 9 hours within 30 hours of the previous rest period (daily or weekly) ending.
The 9 hours is all that is required, it is not a reduced daily rest.
He also went on in another post to explain why.
geebee45:
Article 4 (g) does give the definition of daily rest periods under ‘normal’ circumstances i.e. the vehicle is single crewed.Article 8.2 requires that a driver (single crewed vehicle) takes a daily rest period within 24 hours of ending the last rest period (daily or weekly). The second paragraph of 8.2 states that a regular daily rest is at least 11 hours and a rest period of between 9 and 11 hours will be considered to be a reduced daily rest period.
Article 8.5 basically cancels out both paragraphs of Article 8.2. It puts forward a very specific case; i.e. a driver involved in multi-manning, which is defined in Article 4 (o). The wording in 8.5 effectively replaces the wording contained in 8.2 where the vehicle is multi-manned. So, if the vehicle is multi-manned you ignore the wording in 8.2 and substitute the wording in 8.5 instead. There is a new length of a ‘day;’ 30 hours and a requirement that a rest period of at least 9 hours be taken within that period.
European Regulations are hierarchical in structure, what comes later overrides what is originally written. In this instance daily rest is defined then later modified in particular circumstances.
Sorted.
macplaxton:
Is the German or French versions any more precise?
Hi Mac,
I did multi-manning many years ago, but that was under the old 3820/85, so I’m not even going there, cos that could prove confusing.
However, I took your point about “translation,” and I’ve done some checking.
I can’t speak for the French version simply because I don’t claim any ability with French.
I’ve checked the German version of Article 8(5), and having understood every word of it, I wouldn’t alter a single word of what I’ve seen quoted above in English.
Here is the official German version of Article 8(5) from the Eur-Lex website:
Abweichend von Absatz 2 muss ein im Mehrfahrerbetrieb eingesetzter Fahrer innerhalb von 30 Stunden nach dem Ende einer täglichen oder wöchentlichen Ruhezeit eine neue tägliche Ruhezeit von mindestens 9 Stunden genommen haben.
It seems to me that Article 8(5) is clearly written in both English and German and is designed to cover a very specific situation.
IMHO 8(5) doesn’t do anything to alter anything else, and nothing else alters 8(5.)
Thanks for all the replies, I’ll go with geebee45 as linked in Coffee’s reply as that means I’m legal 
Paul
I liked this thread as I managed to answer a question without doing anything 
geebee45:
I liked this thread as I managed to answer a question without doing anything
I didn’t like this thread as I managed to answer the same question wrong for the second time 
It struck me the other day that one (presumably unintended) feature of the double manning rules is that if I take LT with me two days a week I can do 5 15h shifts in a week (well between weekly rests) even if all she does is sit in the passenger seat with her card in the second position on break all day.
Paul
Link to source