Being a new driver I have to be supervised by another driver thus double manning. We are being told to only put your card in when driving (no card in slot 2) and make a manual entry when swapping i always thought that you must put your card into slot 2 when double manning as a passenger and then swappjng with slot 1 when driving.
Another question is when my card is in slot 2 I cannot record breaks only POA which is showing up as an infringement on the system at work hence being told not to put card into slot.
You need to have your card in slot 2 cos your duty status needs to be determined and it needs to be recorded. Plus you can record a break on both slots, not just p.o.a
S_pool 1985:
You need to have your card in slot 2 cos your duty status needs to be determined and it needs to be recorded. Plus you can record a break on both slots, not just p.o.a
When I was in slot 2 it could only record POA while vehicle was moving whereas I thought you could take a break as a passenger in moving vehicle
CillitBang:
i always thought that you must put your card into slot 2 when double manning as a passenger and then swappjng with slot 1 when driving.
Is the correct legal answer
What about recording breaks instead of POA when in slot 2 as I’ve picked up an infringment for going over 4.5hrs driving even though it was on POA for 2 hrs while doing no work as a passenger.
S_pool 1985:
You need to have your card in slot 2 cos your duty status needs to be determined and it needs to be recorded. Plus you can record a break on both slots, not just p.o.a
When I was in slot 2 it could only record POA while vehicle was moving whereas I thought you could take a break as a passenger in moving vehicle
You can’t record a break when the vehicle is moving, it shows as p.o.a like you said (i thought you meant when the vehicle is stationery), however the company can change the recorded p.o.a period to show as a break period in order to avoid it being read as an infringement (they can see the vehicle is moving at the time), this is what my transport manager told me when I first done a double manned run and queries the same thing
CillitBang:
i always thought that you must put your card into slot 2 when double manning as a passenger and then swappjng with slot 1 when driving.
Is the correct legal answer
What about recording breaks instead of POA when in slot 2 as I’ve picked up an infringment for going over 4.5hrs driving even though it was on POA for 2 hrs while doing no work as a passenger.
Doesn’t matter if u had a break before hand, if u do 4.5 hours driving then u need another 45 mins of break to clear the driving time. Ur break of 2 hours as a passenger would only clear driving time done before the break
Are they trying to get out of allowing you both to take legal breaks by not allowing you to stop for a break? Ie. driver 1 does 4.5 hours drive then swap so driver 2 does 4.5 straight after?
If not then you can switch your mode to break when driver 1 is taking his break.
Also, the first 45 minutes of POA counts as a driver break anyway, so it shouldn’t have come up as an infringement anyway
CookieMonster:
Are they trying to get out of allowing you both to take legal breaks by not allowing you to stop for a break? Ie. driver 1 does 4.5 hours drive then swap so driver 2 does 4.5 straight after?
If not then you can switch your mode to break when driver 1 is taking his break.
Also, the first 45 minutes of POA counts as a driver break anyway, so it shouldn’t have come up as an infringement anyway
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we were switching straight away with no break period between swapping from driver 1 to 2 the say went something like this:
5am-8am - Driving 2hrs
8am-10am - poa 2hrs after swapping to passenger (slot 2)
10am - 1pm - driving and this is where the infringement occured as I thought the POA would be counted as a 45 minute break.
so now after this, we have all been told not to put our card into slot 2 when multi manning which I believe is illegal?
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules
“Multi-manning – second driver record
Some analogue equipment and all digital tachographs will automatically record all time spent as a second driver when the vehicle is in motion as a period of availability and do not allow the mode to be changed to either ‘break’ or ‘other work’. Provided the second driver is not required to carry out any work during this time, enforcement authorities will accept the first 45 minutes of this time as a break from driving. Any periods of other work, however, must be manually recorded on a printout or chart by the driver.”
and
“…Drivers in such a situation must use a driver card to record while driving a vehicle with a digital tachograph and tachograph charts when driving a vehicle equipped with an analogue device.”
If you are available to do driving, you are a driver.
Drivers must use tachographs.
First 45min counts as break.
You must select the correct work mode on slot 2 when stopped as well.
The first 45 mins of POA recorded in slot 2 is accepted as break by DVSA.
Facts and the way it shouod be done.
The problem lies in thst most analysis software will pick up infringements due to insufficient breaks because it cannot see that any breaks have been taken due to the use of POA.
Your company should know all of this and of they don’t then they need to understand tacho regs better and understand their tacho software before handing you infringements to sign. They also need to be able to explain why you have an infringements before you sign it as well.
You must select the correct work mode on slot 2 when stopped as well.
The first 45 mins of POA recorded in slot 2 is accepted as break by DVSA.
Facts and the way it shouod be done.
The problem lies in thst most analysis software will pick up infringements due to insufficient breaks because it cannot see that any breaks have been taken due to the use of POA.
Your company should know all of this and of they don’t then they need to understand tacho regs better and understand their tacho software before handing you infringements to sign. They also need to be able to explain why you have an infringements before you sign it as well.
This is perfect thanks, explains that TM doesn’t know the regs …
For the past 3 weeks I am doing double manning going up further than Scotland, and we always put both cards in slot 1 and 2 and when I stop at services we swap our cards and crack on, we never had any issues so far.
And don’t forget double driver rules are 30 hrs and single driver is 24
Double driver, if you have worked 19 HR shift and 11 off, that does not class as a reducer, and if you have worked 21 and 9 off, that classes as a reducer.
crazyplay:
For the past 3 weeks I am doing double manning going up further than Scotland, and we always put both cards in slot 1 and 2 and when I stop at services we swap our cards and crack on, we never had any issues so far.
And don’t forget double driver rules are 30 hrs and single driver is 24
Double driver, if you have worked 19 HR shift and 11 off, that does not class as a reducer, and if you have worked 21 and 9 off, that classes as a reducer.
He’s referring to the 24 hr rule. Which becomes the 30hr rule if double manned.
Unfortunately my firm double drivers us regularly and the 30 hr rule then applies.
Given a weeks notice for twice getting held up on building sites down a dead end unloading with vehicle mounted crane only to be blocked in by other trucks unloading and taking an hour and a half to inflate all 12 tyres on the spare lorry before taking it out. Anyway out for a ride along on Thursday with a driver from a new company, I’m not expected to drive. Do I put my card in slot 2 and record POA or leave it in my wallet as I have no plans to drive ?
Drivers must also start within a max of 1 hr of each other at start of shift for it to count as double manned shift. Although most places both drivers start at same time.
The software that your using on your card downloads is borked .
The first 45 of POA is excepted as a break by all those that matter .
The French tried using this idiocy against double manned crews but had it thrown out when it went to the higher courts.
It still amazes me how many in the transport industry are peddling software thats not fit for use and idiot firms that promote false information instead of admitting that they bought the wrong equipment or software .
Often the case with companies that do not routinely double man vehicles.
Even many instructors on DCPC courses get the double manning totally wrong , many of the tacho hours guides don’t even mention double manning, ferry or train mode .
If you’re working it should be recorded, simple .
