Rather than hijack another post - as I do on a regular basis, sorry, - thought I’d try to fully explain why IMO to train on w+d is favourite. The statements below are fact - not conjecture and are based on my experience as an HGV trainer since the early seventies.
wd handles easier both forwards and backwards
wd requires less training as it’s easier
wd costs less money and time
you will be able to drive an artic - allow 3 minutes to learn how to couple/uncouple
you will be untidy on corners for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. you’re not on test though so hey ho
pass rate on wd is higher
few enlightened employers have any problem employing someone trained wd. There’s plenty of other stuff you need to learn as well. So the artic difference pales into insignificance
trainees who have insisted on training in my artic have changed their mind as soon as they see wd and realise it’s the same licence
Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would want to make the job more difficult than it already is and risk failing tests and spending loads more money. I’m not alone in regularly training candidates on wd who pass with 1 and 2 minor marks. It’s not impossible on artic (i’ve done it) but it’s less likely.
Anyone fretting about the difference should train wd then have between 2 and 4 hours on an artic for peace of mind. But this is outside the test situation and is more relaxed, enjoyable and usefull.
For those who conisder that the only butch truck is artic, sorry, no help available.
They don’t drive anything like each other, except in a straight line.
I’d love to see a freshly passed W&D driver try to reverse a ‘proper’ artic onto a bay. They’d still be trying to do it a full day later.
Should be law for all C+E to pass in a ‘proper’ artic as that most definitely requires far more planning, care and attention when driving than a W&D. Any fool can drive a W&D as the trailer virtually follows the same footprint as the prime mover.
And I see you are one of those two-bit companies that uses that tactic to get people through their test. I wonder what your pass rate would be if you were using proper artics…
“Congratulations on passing your C+E!!! This piece of paper now says you’re qualified to drive artics but between you and me the reality is that you’re not at all and you will fail miserably at trying to drive a proper artic. No hard feelings though eh, we’ve got your money now and another notch added to our ‘excellent pass rate’ stick, and you know what, that’s all we care about!!! Cya!”.
I seem to remember seeing many posts by newbies on this forum who stated that they wished they had taken CE artic and not W&D when presented with an artic for their first CE job
I do not remember seeing posts stating the opposite
And I see you are one of those two-bit companies that uses that tactic to get people through their test. I wonder what your pass rate would be if you were using proper artics…
I’m proud to be the “two-bit company” that you consider me to be. The pass rate would be just the same on an artic - but my sole point is that it takes longer and therefore costs more.
“Congratulations on passing your C+E!!! This piece of paper now says you’re qualified to drive artics but between you and me the reality is that you’re not at all and you will fail miserably at trying to drive a proper artic. No hard feelings though eh, we’ve got your money now and another notch added to our ‘excellent pass rate’ stick, and you know what, that’s all we care about!!! Cya!”.
Like I said, my statements are based in fact - not the ramblings of someone who should learn the facts before posting. BTW, the “excellent pass rate stick” is all we care about. What’s wrong with that?
I seem to remember seeing many posts by newbies on this forum who stated that they wished they had taken CE artic and not W&D when presented with an artic for their first CE job
I do not remember seeing posts stating the opposite
Anyone fretting about the difference should train wd then have between 2 and 4 hours on an artic for peace of mind. But this is outside the test situation and is more relaxed, enjoyable and usefull.
There is no reason why a correctly trained wd driver would struggle with an artic - apart from the coupling/uncoupling.
In fact, look at the number of posts on here from newbies who have trained on artics and have all sorts of problems. Maybe it’s down, in part, to the quality of the training.
When we went onto wd in 1997, I kept a DAF 2500 and a 40’ box from the existing training fleet. This was because I was so concerned that folk would struggle. My experience of taking brand new drivers on the artic was that, with only 1 exception, no-one had any serious problem. Yes, they may have a couple or 3 goes at getting on a bay. And so will many new artic trained drivers.
Why make life difficult for the test? The obvious method is wd followed by artic familiarisation.
W+d will be easier to pass on and will save you money which is alway a good thing. An artic should be pretty easy to drive once you’ve had a few hours in one.
But…
It’s all about after you have passed. Going for an assessment for a new job, in an artic that you havent even driven yet. This will be hard. It all about the reversing. onto a bay and tight spaces will be hard.
If you trained on an artic you would have learnt how to revers the unit and also the trainer can give you tips too.
Few new drivers a capable of putting an artic on a tight bay - regardless of how they were trained.
The other issue is the number of different transmissions on modern trucks. I haven’t driven them all and my guess is that a new driver wont have done either. There’s a lot more than the difference between wd and artic to worry about.
It’s now acceptable to DSA to use Scania Opticruise for test and get a full manual licence. How does that equip a new driver? The list goes on and on.
IMO it is my job to help folk get their licence. Regardless of what vehicle is used, the chances of getting another one the same in the real world are low. I’ve seen people rave about learning in 10 metre 18t rigids. Great. And then they get an 8 wheel tipper. They will not know what they are doing. It is so important that correct induction training is given to all drivers - new or not - before being let loose with an unfamiliar truck/load. Pete
The only problem with that Peter IMHO is that when a noobie goes for an assessment drive to get taken on by a company and THEN get trained…is that they will more than likely have to do the assessment in an artic, not a w+d.
W&D cheaper? is it really? you charge £1200 for a class 2 and the same for a class one? alot cheaper … No disrepects but from your particular site it looks like you are using upgraded Iveco … they do not compare to sitting in a proper Volvo FH12 or XF95 etc … I found that out when i passed in a silly F6 Volvo then when I drove a Class 2 FOden many a year ago they were completely different.
So if I did my class 2 with you I would have to pay 1200 again even though I know the vehicle I used for my class 2 test so I pay all that just to tow a caravan around on back for 4 days
Pick up your local newspaper and turn to the jobs page, next have a good look for vacancies for artic drivers and compare to vacancies for W&D drivers.
Next turn up at your local employment agency showing them your class 1 licence, ask for work. Then stand back while they have a good laugh cos you’ve never driven an Artic!!
Real World is the place i live. Train em right and train em for life. Fact
3 Artic drivers recently taken on for full time work with Eddie Stobarts with NO previous experience. Fact
I have more people who come to me for training in an Artic after they’ve passed with a W&D because they can’t get through the assessment. But none go the other way. Fact (based purely on local research and not including Mansfield which i’m sure will be opposite)
Please stop this futile argument and just face the facts. 95% of class 1 work in this country is on Artics.
Realistically most new drivers are going to drive an artic so I why would have thought that would be the best vehicle to train in.
Peter Smythe:
wd handles easier both forwards and backwards
I’m sorry but in my opinion that’s simply not correct, the easiest to drive will be the one you’re most used to, I wouldn’t say one is much harder than the other but they are different and require slightly different driving techniques both forward and in reverse.
Peter Smythe:
Rather than hijack another post - as I do on a regular basis, sorry, - thought I’d try to fully explain why IMO to train on w+d is favourite. The statements below are fact - not conjecture and are based on my experience as an HGV trainer since the early seventies.
wd handles easier both forwards and backwards
wd requires less training as it’s easier
wd costs less money and time
you will be able to drive an artic - allow 3 minutes to learn how to couple/uncouple
you will be untidy on corners for a few hours, maybe a couple of days. you’re not on test though so hey ho
pass rate on wd is higher
few enlightened employers have any problem employing someone trained wd. There’s plenty of other stuff you need to learn as well. So the artic difference pales into insignificance
trainees who have insisted on training in my artic have changed their mind as soon as they see wd and realise it’s the same licence
Personally, I cannot understand why anyone would want to make the job more difficult than it already is and risk failing tests and spending loads more money. I’m not alone in regularly training candidates on wd who pass with 1 and 2 minor marks. It’s not impossible on artic (i’ve done it) but it’s less likely.
Anyone fretting about the difference should train wd then have between 2 and 4 hours on an artic for peace of mind. But this is outside the test situation and is more relaxed, enjoyable and usefull.
For those who conisder that the only butch truck is artic, sorry, no help available.
Good luck all, Pete
This post is nothing more than a thinly veiled advert for the OPs company who, rather coincidentally, operates W&Ds for the C+E test.
Sorry Peter - you give some good advice on here and seem like a decent chap, but I would never advise anyone to do their training using a w&d.
I really can’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to do their training using the type of vehicle that they intend to drive. If they want to pursue w&d work, then that’s fair enough.
Turning up for a driving assessment is a nerve-wracking experience without adding the fact that you have never driven the type of vehicle that you are being assessed to use. Unfortunately, a lot of companies these days would rather take on someone who doesn’t need extra training straight away, and a lot of assessments are failed instantly if you mount a Kerb. You haven’t always got the option or opportunity to “tidy things up”
As for it being easier - I’d rather have drivers on the road who have trained hard to be a class 1 driver, rather than ones who have taken the easy route and hope to learn the rest as they go. Yes, we are all learning, every day, and none of us know it all - but the more skills we can pick up whilst under expert instruction, the better.
I have said consistently that artic familiarisation should follow wd training.
I have never said that the majority of class 1 work is wd
Our drivers regularly go to major national companies on artics - Stobart included
We have agencies who are chasing us for the next successful wd pass. They use them first on class 2 and then move on to class 1. That is the same as if they were artic trained with those particular agencies.
We rarely see driving work advertised locally; it tends to be filled directly by word of mouth or through ourselves.
We ran an artic for a year up till about a year ago. Did 6 courses in the year! Constantly looking at ads for artics as, personally, I love em. Just cant justify their existence.
If the powers that be change the rules, I wont complain. But in the meantime, I’m merely pointing out what I consider to be the favourite formula.
I took my test in an artic and i am so glad i did, i would of never opted to take my test in a W&D because to me i would of felt that i cheated myself and took the easier option, but as i say that’s my own choice but one i am glad i took.
At the end of the day it takes skill to drive either WD or artic. I agree with Peter, after a few hours you can tidy up. I did pass in a artic, but that was my personal preferance.
