Here is the sad story. An aquaintance of mine runs a small and I mean small workshop he carries his waste products to a scrap yard in barrels on a 4 wheel trailer pulled by a Kia people carrier. He was stopped by our vosa chum(ps) who said where is your tacho ?then follow us to the vosa depot where they said 1 tyre was not the same as the others on the trailer.Is there any need for tachos on a private vehicle the outfit would be about the same weight as a caravan and a lot less than some sailing boats that I have towed with a transit van.He has since been summonsed to appear in court.I look forward to the views of others on this forum.
If the gross train weight marked on your friend’s vehicle’s manufaturer’s plate exceeds 3500kg and the total of the vehicle gross plus trailer gross exceed 3500kg then yes he would require a tachograph as he is moving the waste in connection with his business. The important first step though is to have a plated train weight over 3500kg (my 407sw is 3750kg GTW as an example of how common this is btw).
Taking this into account, if his vehicle gross is 2500kg and trailer 750kg he is exempt as they total 3250kg (ie <3500kg). If his vehicle gross is 2800kg and the trailer 750kg he is not exempt as they total 3550kg.
I would’ve said that a tachograph would only be required if the train weight was above 3.5 tonnes (that’s how i’ve always understood to be correct unless the C&U regs have changed) Suprised they’ve not asked for waste carriers licence or adr while there about it? Hope ur mate can get a good consultant?
if his train weight was over 3500 would he not need an o licence?
my shogun has a train weight of 5850kgs…
xamtex:
if his train weight was over 3500 would he not need an o licence?
my shogun has a train weight of 5850kgs…
Only if the trailer weighs over 1025kg unladen, so quite a hefty beast. Most 3500kg gross Ifor Williams type trailers weigh around 600-800kg so well under.
And lots of 4x4 vehicles used to tow a trailer for business related use do indeed require a tachograph to be fitted and in use (£200 fp for not having one…) subject to normal tacho exemptions of course.
i was always on the understanding aslong as the prime mover ie the 4x4 was no more than 3.5ton then no o licence required .
if combined weight is over 3.5ton you require a taco but no o licence as prime mover below the 3.5ton limit .
Cannot help on O licence issue but can on the tacho issue
Article 2
- This Regulation shall apply to the carriage by road:
(a) of goods where the maximum permissible mass of the vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-railer, exceeds 3,5 tonnes, or
haulier:
I would’ve said that a tachograph would only be required if the train weight was above 3.5 tonnes (that’s how i’ve always understood to be correct unless the C&U regs have changed) Suprised they’ve not asked for waste carriers licence or adr while there about it? Hope ur mate can get a good consultant?
Hi haulier, I have a couple of comments if I may. 
(And you did mention ADR. 
)
I share your surprise about a waste-carriers licence, but it’s usually DEFRA or the EA (IIRC, in Scotland = SEPA) who concern themselves about such things as the carriage of waste, but for all we know, the VOSA officer may have passed on the details of what was discovered to the relevant authority … 
Then again, maybe they didn’t.
As for ADR possibly applying to that job, it would depend on the exact nature of the waste being carried.
By that, I mean whether the goods legally count as ‘dangerous’ goods. IF the goods count as dangerous goods, other relevant factors here would be:
The exact name of the ‘stuff,’ the method and type of packaging(s) used, and the total amount loaded on the vehicle.
For ADR’s purposes, only the ‘dangerous’ amount of the load would be taken into consideration, because non-dangerous ‘stuff’ has no connection to ADR.
I know where there’s a good and properly qualified ADR consultant, who would happily advise the OP’s acquaintance for free in this particular instance. 
does he tax class, i.e. private or gooods have a bearing?
most 4x4 vehicles should need an o’licence and tacho, as they have a maximum permissable weight of around 5.5tons.
i can’t wait for the summer. stafford will be like a gipsie camp if your mate loses his case. 
Hi Dieseldave, adr regs are changing all the time i know the size of package or container capacity that your allowed to carry is reducing all the time, i would suppose the guy would be carrying waste oils of some description but the size of drum has not been specified. Colin.
del949:
does he tax class, i.e. private or gooods have a bearing?
No bearing at all. It all comes down to having a gross or train weight over 3500kg and business use for tachograph requirements.
For O licencing the gross must be over 3500kg or the gross train over 3500kg but the trailer must weigh over 1025kg unladen.
Re ADR as a previous chap pointed out it depends on the actual designation of the product to start with. If in doubt contact a Vosa officer with knowledge of the subject or local HSE office.
haulier:
Hi Dieseldave, adr regs are changing all the time i know the size of package or container capacity that your allowed to carry is reducing all the time, i would suppose the guy would be carrying waste oils of some description but the size of drum has not been specified. Colin.
Hi haulier, I’ve got some VERY good news for you then…
Since May 2005, the ADR threshold (freeby allowance) limits were in many cases DOUBLED, and in some cases TREBLED.
Going along with a gut feeling, generally, waste oil is NOT subject to ADR, no matter what the quantity is.
Good ADR consultants are actually quite useful.
alamcculloch:
Here is the sad story. An aquaintance of mine runs a small and I mean small workshop he carries his waste products to a scrap yard in barrels on a 4 wheel trailer pulled by a Kia people carrier. He was stopped by our vosa chum(ps) who said where is your tacho ?then follow us to the vosa depot where they said 1 tyre was not the same as the others on the trailer.Is there any need for tachos on a private vehicle the outfit would be about the same weight as a caravan and a lot less than some sailing boats that I have towed with a transit van.He has since been summonsed to appear in court.I look forward to the views of others on this forum.
so what offences did VOSA prosecute him on then 
tyre not the same he had a square one on or was the width of the different tyre different
dieseldave:
well in that case could you push him in the direction of TNUK…, we need an expert on ADR on here - the one we have at the moment someone asks a question about ADR and halfway through his reply he seamlessly starts talking about his favourtie pies
trumplesneaker:
Re ADR as a previous chap pointed out it depends on the actual designation of the product to start with.
Hi trumplesneaker, that might have been me then.
trumplesneaker:
If in doubt contact a Vosa officer with knowledge of the subject or local HSE office.
On the face of it, that’s good advice from your good self, but the quality of their advice is variable and it usually ranges somewhere between completely incompetent through to fairly good.
You wouldn’t believe the number of police and VOSA officers who detain a vehicle at the roadside and who then get ADR stuff completely wrong even after they’ve spoken to their boss back at the office. 
I do feel kind of sympathetic towards those enforcement officers though, because ADR is only a small part of their remit, but ADR is quite detailed and complex.
I’ve trained several enforcement officers in my ADR drivers’ classes and at the next level.
My tip for ADR advice is to ask a properly qualified consultant DGSA who is also carrying the right PL insurance. If that guy is also an ADR instructor, then so much the better because he’s very familiar with the subject because he’s dealing with it professionally on an almost daily basis for a living.
If folks know such a person then that’s great, but I’ll be here for everybody else for the foreseeable future.
Cruise Control:
dieseldave:
well in that case could you push him in the direction of TNUK…, we need an expert on ADR on here - the one we have at the moment someone asks a question about ADR and halfway through his reply he seamlessly starts talking about his favourtie pies
He only responds when provoked mate!!
limeyphil:
most 4x4 vehicles should need an o’licence and tacho, as they have a maximum permissable weight of around 5.5tons.
Only if the are being used for business - private ones are out of scope
Many thanks for the helpful replies .The waste in question is mainly the swarf that comes off when using turning lathes or milling machines in other words oily bits of metal.