M&C Jamie:
It’s all very well to crack jokes and laugh abot snow chains,but in my experiance it was always near the top of a hill ,or near a service area or your destination when you slid to a halt. in the snow.there is nothing worse than to be lying in your bed and the snow plough going past and burying your truck in snow. You then have to wait until a recovery squad comes along , sometimes many hours later. I would rather spend half an hour fitting chains and reaching safe parking than lying at the roadside.
regards Jamie
A Scot lost in the Valley’s
I think I’d probably be lying in my bed with or without snow chains, given that I always carry ADR, alteast on the outward journey and I may be wrong, but dont you have to park when there is a covering of snow on the road when carrying ADR?
yes thats correcr also,when black-ice, or fog, here in germany
i have a look and post if some one does not do it before as
we have the rules at work for A few countrys where they are
strict as regards ADR transport,
I have to agree with M&C Jamie and jj72 observations on this point.
The only time you knew for certain that you needed snow chains was when you started back-sliding or saw someboy else back-sliding. IMHO, still not an easy call to make.
Yes, Wheel Nut, I remember the automatic type of chains. The ones I remember are exactly the same as in Robbe’s pics, they were in use in at least the mid-80’s IIRC.
Does anybody remember how the Austrians used to stop you and either park you up, or tell you that chains were to be fitted from that point onward?? At least they gave you a choice
Then they’d stop you again a bit further along and make you remove the chains on the approach to a tunnel. What a pain
Since we’re on about snow chains, who remembers the Italian ones that came as three sections per wheel and were bolted through the drive wheels one at a time Much easier to fit than the long type that you rolled back onto then tried to join up. They were a pain to tension.
Then there was the problem with the middle section of the tractor unit’s rear mudguards
I can’t comment on Finland, because I never went there, but I’m fairly sure that those who have been will say that it’s a fact of life in Sweden and Norway that you need, and will use, chains at some point if you’re there in Winter. The sheer volume of snow dictates it IMHO.
Ive only fitted chains once but I did improvise with 2 spansets
How?
I had a Daf FTG and the second steer had a dump button but only lasted about 7 seconds.
I was in Czech in a dip between 2 hills and had to stop because someone ran off the road. I tried to go forwards, I tried to go back. It wasn’t going anywhere.
I managed to get my second steer onto some woods and strapped the axle to the chassis. It worked and I managed to get up the hilland through the border, although by the time I got out of CZ the straps were well frayed as the air bags were trying to break them all the time.
Which states that Snow Chains are NOT compulsory in Austria, Finland, France, Italy, Poland, Switzerland or Germany.
This thread just creates more confusion…
Ossie
That’s a fair point ossie, but I’d point out two things.
Whilst not doubting the author’s knowledge, **(**8) ) the post is dated 2003, with the latest contribution being in 2004.
My comment on Austria dates from the mid 80’s when I regularly ran to/through there.
I didn’t mean to imply that chains were compulsory, instead I meant to say that at a certain point on certain motorways, the police would stop trucks and check for the presence of chains. If you had none, you were parked-up, because it was likely you’d block the m/way once you started sliding everywhere. The police usually did this in blizzard conditions and where there was suitable parking, ie they’d pull you into a decent sized lay-by just before a steep hill. I experienced this many times and I’m not aware of anybody being fined for not having chains.
The simple choice was that, if you had chains, you were required to fit them if you wished to go any further. Sorry if I caused confusion.
ossie:
As you say your knowledge was from the 80’s and the Sticky was from 2003/2004.
I don’t believe it was actually compulsory to have chains with you as brit pete’s post says. The way I read that is that the only difference between now and the mid-80’s is that you must have winter tyres. Although the post doesn’t specifically mention snow chains in the section on Austria, there’s no reason to think that what I wrote above is no longer valid. It seems to me that chains are neither required, nor forbidden, in Austria.
(Or that you’d get fined because you happen to have some on board )
I can’t imagine the Austrians getting rid of such a commonsense rule just because it happens to be old.
Here’s how I remember it in bad weather conditions:
No chains on board = Park up, but no fine
Chains on board, but driver unwilling to fit them = Park up, but no fine
Chains on board, and driver needs to be somewhere = Fit chains then carry on.
Ossie:
Perhaps its time the sticky was updated by some kind Admin to reflect the current legislation for 2007/2008.
I think the original sticky was provided by a “kind Admin” and perhaps needs updating as you say Ossie.
IMHO, brit pete’s post might be just what we’re looking for
eldor:
I think I’d probably be lying in my bed with or without snow chains, given that I always carry ADR, alteast on the outward journey and I may be wrong, but dont you have to park when there is a covering of snow on the road when carrying ADR?
brit pete:
yes thats correcr also,when black-ice, or fog, here in germany
i have a look and post if some one does not do it before as
we have the rules at work for A few countrys where they are
strict as regards ADR transport,
It’s perfectly possible that, in certain countries, you have to park-up in certain weather conditions when carrying dangerous goods.
However, I can tell you that it’s not an ADR offence if you don’t. ADR has nothing to say on the subject of snow etc.
In Germany, I’d guess that it’s a national law, something like StVO that contains that requirement. It doesn’t make much difference though, if you’re required to park-up then IMHO, you should.
eldor:
I think I’d probably be lying in my bed with or without snow chains, given that I always carry ADR, alteast on the outward journey and I may be wrong, but dont you have to park when there is a covering of snow on the road when carrying ADR?
brit pete:
yes thats correcr also,when black-ice, or fog, here in germany
i have a look and post if some one does not do it before as
we have the rules at work for A few countrys where they are
strict as regards ADR transport,
It’s perfectly possible that, in certain countries, you have to park-up in certain weather conditions when carrying dangerous goods.
However, I can tell you that it’s not an ADR offence if you don’t. ADR has nothing to say on the subject of snow etc.
In Germany, I’d guess that it’s a national law, something like StVO that contains that requirement. It doesn’t make much difference though, if you’re required to park-up then IMHO, you should.
Try GGVS for the Gefahrgut rules. It may be within these or it could be a drivers myth about snow chains causing a spark
Wheel Nut:
Try GGVS for the Gefahrgut rules. It may be within these or it could be a drivers myth about snow chains causing a spark
That’s an excellent point Wheel Nut, it was a possibility that GGVSE (Straßen und Eisenbahn) contained that Reg.
To avoid confusion, the Germans (with typical efficiency ) write the mode(s) at the end of the “GGV.” It simply wouldn’t do if we got our Verordnungen all mixed up now would it??
However, I’ve now looked into the question (all afternoon ) and the answer seems to be in § 2(3a) of StVO.
In short, it says exactly what brit pete posted above.
In fact, brit pete is that spot-on, that I believe I might have found his source
StVO § 2(3a) also refers to vehicles carrying dangerous goods, but there’s no translations available until at least Feb 2008. I’ve read the German version provided by the German Ministry of Justice and so this is my own freely-translated version of the part relating to dangerous goods:
[There’s no mention of sparks ]
The driver of a vehicle carrying dangerous goods must exclude the danger to others and, if necessary, find a “proper” parking place in the following weather conditions:
With visibility of less than 50 metres [So it seems that; rain, fog or falling snow might ALL count.]
The road has a covering of packed snow;
The road has a covering of black ice;
I can provide the original if necessary
As for the reason behind ADR stuff having to park-up in bad weather, who knows cos StVo doesn’t tell us why. As the Germans say “Ordnung muss sein.”
yes we have to park up over here in germany when
the conditions are as laid down in the paragraphs
in the german highway code (stvo),this is strictly
enforced and the police do punish any one breaking
the law,
the germans belive that due to the bad weather/road
conditions IT IS SAFER THAT hazerdous vehicles
park up and therefore are not placed in a situation
where they may cause a DANGER in the adverse
conditions ,to any one useing the road.
i will dig out the book and place a few more facts
as regards this ,tomorrow, from my little
black book,
brit pete:
yes we have to park up over here in germany when
the conditions are as laid down in the paragraphs
in the german highway code (stvo),this is strictly
enforced and the police do punish any one breaking
the law,
the germans belive that due to the bad weather/road
conditions IT IS SAFER THAT hazerdous vehicles
park up and therefore are not placed in a situation
where they may cause a DANGER in the adverse
conditions ,to any one useing the road.
i will dig out the book and place a few more facts
as regards this ,tomorrow, from my little
black book,
In Norway are u welcome to drive whit any kind of kind of goods ony snowy/ice roads My wife passed for her ADR certificat last fryday, and we have no restictions on weather conditians…
if you se this sign can it be oke to stop and put on chains…
b 15. November gilt in Österreich erstmals für alle Lastwagen und Sattelfahrzeuge mit mehr als 3,5 Tonnen Gesamtgewicht sowie Autobusse eine Winterreifen- und Schneeketten-Mitnahmepflicht. Nach Angaben des ADAC müssen die genannten Fahrzeuge auf mindestens einer Antriebsachse Winterreifen mit einer entsprechenden M+S-Kennzeichnung verwenden. Diese Regelung gilt unabhängig davon, ob Schnee auf der Fahrbahn liegt und bleibt bis 15. März bestehen.
From the 15 November(07) is for first in Austria, for all trucks and tracktor units with more than a 3,5t GLW and buses ,winter tyres with M+S marks on the side must be fitted to aleast ONE drive axle, snow chains MUST be carried. This law applies up to 15 March,and is compulsery even if there isnt any snow on the road
gbtransp:
b 15. November gilt in Österreich erstmals für alle Lastwagen und Sattelfahrzeuge mit mehr als 3,5 Tonnen Gesamtgewicht sowie Autobusse eine Winterreifen- und Schneeketten-Mitnahmepflicht. Nach Angaben des ADAC müssen die genannten Fahrzeuge auf mindestens einer Antriebsachse Winterreifen mit einer entsprechenden M+S-Kennzeichnung verwenden. Diese Regelung gilt unabhängig davon, ob Schnee auf der Fahrbahn liegt und bleibt bis 15. März bestehen.
From the 15 November(07) is for first in Austria, for all trucks and tracktor units with more than a 3,5t GLW and buses ,winter tyres with M+S marks on the side must be fitted to aleast ONE drive axle, snow chains MUST be carried. This law applies up to 15 March,and is compulsery even if there isnt any snow on the road
Geoff
Hi gbtransp, that’s great info, but I wasn’t aware of the “M+S” thing. so I’ve had a little look into it, and it seems to be something called “Matsch u. Schnee” (Eng. = slush and snow) which offers a 7% improvement in traction and braking distance characteristics by using a special tread pattern, including a greater tread-depth. The M+S mark seems to be a snowflake symbol on the wall of the tyre. Do the letters “M+S” have to be on the tyre wall as well
Maybe somebody knows whether we have the M+S mark on tyres manufactured in the UK.
The ÖAMTC website tells me that the Austrian fine for a straightforward offence is €35, but that this can be increased to a maximum of €5,000 if dealt by by way of summons where there are aggravating factors, such as causing endangerment.
DIESIELDAVE I think you will find that the fine s for lorrys-lkw,s#
are much higher mate, and the sign required as regards winter tyres is a
Snowflake on the side wall,as this is what is now found on all new winter tyres,
over here in germany and other countrys of europe,
brit pete:
DIESIELDAVE I think you will find that the fine s for lorrys-lkw,s#
are much higher mate, and the sign required as regards winter tyres is a
Snowflake on the side wall,as this is what is now found on all new winter tyres,
over here in germany and other countrys of europe,
Hi brit pete, I’m not getting into an argument about this, all I did was to quote my source and post a link to it.
So it’s not even my opinion.
IMHO, all I’ve done is to venture a translation of a document provided by what I believe to be a respectable source.
WADR mate, it’s all very well to say
brit pete:
I think you will find that the fine s for lorrys-lkw,s#
are much higher mate,
but unless you tell us the basis for the info, or state something to the contrary, how is anybody to know what’s correct
If your info is newer, more relevant or your translation is better, then please post it.
I’m sure we’d all want to be using the most accurate info, so if mine is wrong in any way, I’ll happily stand corrected and everybody can benefit.
ÖAMTC:
Winterausrüstung in Europa [my edit: In relation to Austria] Stand: Dezember 2007 Neuregelung der Winterausrüstungspflicht in Österreich (gültig ab 1. Jänner 2008):
Strafe: bei einfachen Verstößen 35 Euro; bei einer Anzeige aufgrund einer hohen Gefährdung bis zu 5.000 Euro.
Die Regelung gilt sowohl für in Österreich als auch im Ausland zugelassene Kfz.
Interestingly, the last line says that the Regulation applies equally to Austrian vehicles as well as to those registered in foreign countries.
Strafe: bei einfachen Verstößen 35 Euro; bei einer Anzeige aufgrund einer hohen Gefährdung bis zu 5.000 Euro.
Die Regelung gilt sowohl für in Österreich als auch im Ausland zugelassene Kfz.
Interestingly, the last line says that the Regulation applies equally to Austrian vehicles as well as to those registered in foreign countries
Thats the starting price for all the Germans going on sking holidays with sommer tyres on there cars
Much easier to fit than the long type that you rolled back onto then tried to join up. They were a pain to tension. 
so I’ve had a little look into it, and it seems to be something called “Matsch u. Schnee” (Eng. = slush and snow) which offers a 7% improvement in traction and braking distance characteristics by using a special tread pattern, including a greater tread-depth. The M+S mark seems to be a snowflake symbol on the wall of the tyre. Do the letters “M+S” have to be on the tyre wall as well 
€5,000