Can anyone please give me a definitive answer to the legalities of a proposed wage structure?.
£X amount basic plus 5% bonus based on trucks earnings plus nights out.
I thought performance based bonus`s were illegal as they encouraged drivers to do more (than the limit in some cases)
Or am i wrong?
Cheers
Not sure they are illegal, but I think they are fundamentally flawed because you as the driver will, more than likely, never know what the truck is really really earning.
I really don’t like these schemes. 
As far as I know there is nothing illegal about a bonus scheme or by paying a percentage of the trucks earnings.
I believe VOSA and the TC’s are not 100% happy with those scheme’s but aslong as every thing is above board, and there is no evidence of running bent/breaking the rules, they can’t do much about it.
I’m paid this way, and I’m lucky as I know the rates for the job that we do.
Thanks fenman and steve.
I was offered this on uk bulk work but didnt fancy it AT ALL.
No telling how much the rates are for the jobs i`d be doing which leaves a large capacity to be shafted in my opinion
flying_fenman:
Not sure they are illegal, but I think they are fundamentally flawed because you as the driver will, more than likely, never know what the truck is really really earning.I really don’t like these schemes.
I would just like to say that my Dad pays on that method and you have a bad mental picture of bosses, it really frustrates me when i see people saying things like this, I know 100% that many bosses are honest and would never pull the wool over there employees eyes over pay and vehicle earnings.
Next time before you post insinuating that ALL bosses are abusing you just think!
Some peoples attitude against employers makes my blood boil.
Sorry if i offend anyone.
Rant over.
8 legger:
Some peoples attitude against employers makes my blood boil.
I’m with you there. A quick look at an average Commecial Motor Law/legal section reveals lots of drivers (salaried as well) who are exceeding their working hours, taking no breaks and generally flouting the regulations all without the knowledge of their boss, who then ends up losing his O licence!
You couldn’t make it up hey?!
And on the flip side of the coin there are far more TM’s and Employers pushing there drivers to break the law, and or routing them so that there is no give or take on there time and when they do get stuck for whatever reason demanding they bend the rules to aid there business.
The writing on the back of the card seems a favourite.
I’m not pasting everyone with the same brush but it does happen
8 legger:
flying_fenman:
Not sure they are illegal, but I think they are fundamentally flawed because you as the driver will, more than likely, never know what the truck is really really earning.I really don’t like these schemes.
I would just like to say that my Dad pays on that method and you have a bad mental picture of bosses, it really frustrates me when i see people saying things like this, I know 100% that many bosses are honest and would never pull the wool over there employees eyes over pay and vehicle earnings.
Next time before you post insinuating that ALL bosses are abusing you just think!
Some peoples attitude against employers makes my blood boil.
Sorry if i offend anyone.
Rant over.
I did think before I posted it. I still think it is correct.
I did not say that it applied to ALL bosses. In my experience, the fact is that drivers on this type of deal rarely know what the truck is really earning. FACT.
I am not saying that your Dad, or anyone in particular, is pulling the wool over their employee’s eyes. Some people I have worked for probably would given half a chance. FACT.
Who are you to tell me that I have a ‘bad mental picture of bosses’? Do you know my ‘mental picture’? I think not
I am aware that there are many bosses out there that are honest. But not all of them are. To think anything else would be rather naive.
It makes my blood boil when people do not read a comment properly before posting a response.
I would be very interested to know how your Dad works out the bonus for the driver.
Its quite simple really, just a set base wage and then the drivers are given a % of the overall earnings of the truck in that week, if its not the drivers fault that the earnings are down they get paid an average.
As for the reference to the comic, the haulage companies in the legal section are a VERY SMALL amount compared to how many companies out there, running legally. I agree with you that the are some crooks out there but it’s a minority.
Disregarding the “obvious”
How ever can a driver possibly influence the profitability of a truck/job, when he/she has such minimal cost control over the running of said truck?
That, above all, is the management’s job. Not the driver’s.
Yes, we can assist somewhat in fuel economy, minimize accident & damage claims & perform professionally.
But, it’s not me who sets the rate, nor the margin.
I, as a driver have VERY little profit control. So, why would I wish trust or share my livelihood to someone else’s idea of?
Tagoat, It’s not really about fuel economy etc, its about getting that last drop done tonight instead of in the morning, or running up the road a couple of hours this evening and parking up, rather than starting off tomorrow morning. These things can vastly increase the weekly profitability of a vehicle, without the need to bend the rules at all.
JB:
Can anyone please give me a definitive answer to the legalities of a proposed wage structure?.
£X amount basic plus 5% bonus based on trucks earnings plus nights out.
I thought performance based bonus`s were illegal as they encouraged drivers to do more (than the limit in some cases)
Or am i wrong?
Cheers
performance Bonus system is Illegal,if you can’t do the Job legal with that Paysystem.
In Your situation will You earn a number of Pounds as Wages+Night out,and as Boss likes You gives he You 5% of that amount the Truck,driven and operated by you,brings in.
It’s actually not illegal from that site seen
Tramper:
Tagoat, It’s not really about fuel economy etc, its about getting that last drop done tonight instead of in the morning, or running up the road a couple of hours this evening and parking up, rather than starting off tomorrow morning. These things can vastly increase the weekly profitability of a vehicle, without the need to bend the rules at all.
Thanks Tramper. I see what you mean.
But if the rate agreed elsewhere,is poor, then that can mean pushing max hours all the time for a profit -share of a poor rate?
(I think that was what I was trying to say) 
flying_fenman:
Not sure they are illegal, but I think they are fundamentally flawed because you as the driver will, more than likely, never know what the truck is really really earning.I really don’t like these schemes.
im with you on these schemes… to be honest i dont trust management one bit if there is a chance they can weadle the last penny from you they usually do.
Lovlyperson:
[performance Bonus system is Illegal,if you can’t do the Job legal with that Paysystem.
In Your situation will You earn a number of Pounds as Wages+Night out,and as Boss likes You gives he You 5% of that amount the Truck,driven and operated by you,brings in.
It’s actually not illegal from that site seen
Can you point me in the direction of where it says that it is illegal? Because if that is so then alot of firms (some big ones as well) are breaking the law.
I know that the job can be done without breaking the rules, mainly because I earn between £500 and £600 top line every week on this system, for an approx 60hrs week (47average for wtd). As do the other 3 drivers on our firm and 6 more from another firm on the same contract. Both firms analyse the tacho’s every week with minimal infringements, certainly NO bent running. If there was then it would have been picked up in the recent VOSA check we had, but we passed that ok.
I know every firm is not the same as ours, and I would think very seriously before I went on this scheme anywhere else. But I know it can be done legally and above board. My problem is I just want to get the job done and get home, I can’t string it out like some do on hourly pay.
Tagoat:
How ever can a driver possibly influence the profitability of a truck/job, when he/she has such minimal cost control over the running of said truck?
There are some very obvious ways.
-
Mr. Must do 13 hrs.
This is a driver who park up in laybys for an hour or two for a kip. They don’t have to take a break but merely do it to string the job out. THey’re the person who’ll set out 2 hrs before you and get back 2hrs after you despite being on the same job. -
Mr. 5MPG.
This is a driver who takes the engine right up to the governors in every gear, shoots up to roundabouts and traffic lights before stamping on the brakes and coming to a complete stop. When asked about economical driving, his response is that he doesn’t pay the bill. When both of you are on the same run, he’ll use 220 litres of fuel to your 180 and only save 2 minutes total on a 8hr round trip. -
Mr. Rough’n’ready.
This is a driver who manages to hit everything in the yard. Also regularly rips suzies off the unit, smashes mirrors and has the motor in the garage on a weekly basis for one reason or another. -
Mr. Scenic Route.
This is a driver who thinks he knows better than the rest of the world how to get from A to B. Doesn’t believe in maps or Satnav but relies instead on directions given from petrol stations and burger vans which he either immediately forgets or scribbles down in some wierd shorthand that even he can’t understand. Will use the most obtuse routes from one town to another then spend an hour aimlessly driving around trying to find the drop.
By being an economical driver, you can shave £100’s a week off the fuel bill. By working smart, you can reduce the time the vehicle is stood. By thinking smart, you can reduce journey times. By driving smart, you can reduce the damage bill.
In short, you can have a very large influence over the profitability because once the traffic office have found a load, how much profit that lorry makes from that load is entirely down to you, the driver.
Conor:
By being an economical driver, you can shave £100’s a week off the fuel bill. By working smart, you can reduce the time the vehicle is stood. By thinking smart, you can reduce journey times. By driving smart, you can reduce the damage bill.
Amen to that! Conor, want a Job? 
Thank you for the explaination Conor, and agree totally with it, but I did say “disregarding the obvious” at the begining of the post.
For far too many drivers, Mr. 5 MPG isn’t obvious. Ask a lot of drivers and they’ve not a clue how to really drive economically properly or how big the savings can be. Most of them won’t care either.
i was told percentage on its own was ilegal but with a basic rate salary/hourly pay it isnt the problem i see with percentage is the fact that every firm has there blue eyed boys that will always get the best paying work its not a fair paying system and if its not ilegal it should be drivers should either be paid by salary or on an hourly rate