I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training video 
… Taking cover right now 
Anyone on a salary is likely to be “rushing about” for similar reasons. Being paid the same for doing the job in 12 hours rather than 15 hours tends to have that effect. 
Those firms that have staircasing rates of pay (£6.25 for the first 8 hours, £10 for 8-12 hours, £16 for 12 hours plus) of course are only going to get between 8 and 9 hours a day, occaisionally pushed upto 10 by the traffic. 
we are paid a % of the truck ernings. so it pays to have everything go youre way during the shift. im never top earner, there are 1 or 2 of them who all ways get the better work. also us trampers earn more than the day men cos they have 2 be home every day, and we are in the system and the tm can plan us easyer. yes i am a tipper driver
The trouble with this kind of bonus is the blue eyed hoverers get to pick up 100%, and the poor guy who gets the single run out into the back of beyond is going to get less. After 20 years on the same job, in a “dead man’s shoes” environment, one can still be “the boy” after that long, and not move up in the pecking order of things. 
Incentive bonuses should be banned in most aspects of jobs. All it brings is favoritism, corner cutting, backstabbing and mistakes.
I thought this crap was outlawed years ago! Whatever firm the driver you were talking to works at,it needs the O licence removing from it immediately and the owner/director taking promptly to jail and thereupon placed in solitary confinement without light or any human contact until the day they die!
Any driver who works there that subscribes to this way of working needs their bumps feeling!!
I used to be paid tip/load and mileage. Certainly made you get your finger out. I’m a lot more chilled on hourly pay, but still like to do my share of work.
I can name two big ■■■■■■■■ haulage firms that pay all or some of their drivers a flat rate plus load percentage. Both concerned with bulk haulage.
What Robroy quoted is about the basic for us on day cab tippers. There is a load bonus but I don’t bother/concern myself with it. As far as I’m concerned, our bonus scheme is only legal if you stick to the speed limits. Get caught speeding and you get it taken away. I had £68 deducted because that’s what I earned the week I got flashed; The week the NIP came through, I only made £30 odd so they took the remainder the following week…I’ve not broken limits nearly 10 years on.
I think the green and whites (Bulmans) are paid similar to this.
When I worked for P&O Ferrymasters out of Fleetwood we had a bonus scheme which kicked in if you covered more than x kms a day moved more than x loads.
As I worked mostly weekends most of the work was dropping stand trailers in to various companies and running loaded ones to port with very little tipping and loading done, so it worked quite well for me. Could rarely achieve the threshold on a Friday though if I started that day, with Fri & Sat nights out, Saturday was usually a busy and long day.
most tipper firms i know pay a % of the trucks ernings, i dont see a problem with it as i sorts the wheat from the chaff !never been keen on hourly pay myself as like to get the job done and go home, the sooner i get home the better my hourly rate!
if i put my o/d hat on i get a rate for the job from a to b i dont get paid more money for spinning the job out any longer
just a final thought i read mr monks post last week about 56 sausages an hour, i had a quick add up and decided that if i stick to 65 sausages an hr i can finish and be home well over an hr sooner!!
moose
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training video
it is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006
Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.
delboytwo:
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training videoit is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.
Quality post,i couldn’t find anything about this online! I knew it’d been outlawed.
delboytwo:
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training videoit is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.
When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practices
NewLad:
delboytwo:
robroy:
I was talking to a driver of a large bulk firm the other day about wages. He reckoned he was on a £90 per day salary for 5 days, which I reckon is more than some are on today, and on top of that an unspecified extra amount for every load/tip. Is this type of incentive still legal as I seem to remember in the 80s or 90s it was banned as it was seen to compromise road safety. The driver went on to say that it was doing just that at his firm, as some of the guys were going all out to the point it was causing friction among themselves, and it was becoming a race for loads, by ways such as driving flat out on all classes of road, tipping and loading on breaks which lead to eating and drinking on the move, meaning no REAL break was taken all week whilst driving to maximum limits every day, and parking in any sh hole they found when their last minute was up, bed, and away again next day.
Is this still legal ? and if so (still) usual in tipper/bulk haulage? as you see a lot of tipper guys driving as if they have seen the old film “Hell Drivers” and mistook it for a training videoit is still illegal to give bonuses
REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006Article 10
- A transport undertaking shall not give drivers it employs
or who are put at its disposal any payment, even in the form
of a bonus or wage supplement, related to distances travelled
and/or the amount of goods carried if that payment is of such
a kind as to endanger road safety and/or encourages
infringement of this Regulation.When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practices
Offering the bonus did just that! You were caught speeding trying to make more money from the bonus incentive. Taking it away for being caught does not cancel out the fact the company is breaking the law in the first instance.
Having retired two years ago after spending about thirty years on this kind of “wage”, I can tell you that the “percentage of gross” method of payment has been with the tipper industry (and especially the BULK tipper industry) for most of that time. I found that at the time my main problem was that employers in general would refuse point blank to tell the driver how much the vehicle had earned that week. What this meant in practice was that the boss looked at how well you had done, deducted any excessive (in his opinion) fuel & tyre costs, plus any breakdown time, then paid you whatever he felt like. When challenged, the answer was invariably, “Times are hard, we’re all in this together, if I could pay you more, I would”.
We did notice that, although times were hard, it didn’t prevent these bosses indulging in expensive cars, houses, swimming pools, etc.
And yes, I’m afraid this method of payment is still perfectly legal as long as it DOES NOT ENCOURAGE THE BREAKING OF THE LAW.
All an employer has to do is state that the drivers were instructed not to break the law in order to enhance their wages.
Job done.
You can guess where the legislators took their advice from, can’t you? The very people who were likely to vote for them, of course.
Sorry to rant on, but it’s been one of my hobbyhorses for years.
Anyonr remember when we had those funny things called Trade Unions?
Were are the Agrobulk drivers when you need them !!! They will tell you all about percentage pay !!!
NewLad:
When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practices
No, think about it mate, I would call it potential damage limitation, and covering their arses, and the clever bit, looking good to the authorities and at the same time saving cash when the damage is done 
, win win all round for the operator, but not for the driver… as normal.
There’s a notorious tipper firm around here that wont pay subbies by the load but a day rate (£450 for an 8w); They decide what is a days’ work and will make deductions if you haven’t done enough. One od who worked for us last week told me how this firms’ office can be quite abusive if you “wont do what you’re given.”
Only a matter of time before there’s a bad accident and the excrement will hit the fan…
robroy:
NewLad:
When they take bonuses off you for speeding I would say they are not encouraging dangerous practicesNo, think about it mate, I would call it potential damage limitation, and covering their arses.
I asked why we lose bonuses for speeding;
“So nobody can profit from breaking the law.”
I then asked what happens to the withdrawn bonus;
“The firm keeps it.” Enough said then, the scheme’s still illegal.