jobcentreplus.gov.uk/Interne … f=ELS/9646
Anybody qualified to do this job?
I’m of the “good luck to 'em if they want to work hard” brigade normally, but…
Isn’t it going a little bit too far when English companies have to employ not one, but two extra staff in order to translate for their Polish drivers?
If they can’t understand English so much that they need interpreters to speak to their TM, then how can they read their load sheets correctly, or ensure they stay within regulations on road signs, or even use equipment according to the instructions.
I was at a yard a couple of weeks back that actually had the signs in one area ALL in Polish, not English first and then Polish underneath, or even Polish first and English underneath. All the signs in Polish - no English at all.
This was in central London, just 200m from Victoria Station.
Foreign drivers, we respect your right to work here if you want but please remember where you are!
Alex
Wobble:
Welcome to GOV.UKAnybody qualified to do this job?
Description
We require two fluent Polish & English speaking drivers. The vacancy is temporary for 13 weeks, and then it will become permanent. You will be required to liase with both Polish & English drivers & transport staff, therefore it is essential that you are fluent in both languages. The job involves driving & also admin duties in the transport office. Communicating with drivers, de-briefing them & dealing with any queries or problems. You must have held your Class 1 Licence for a minimum of 2 years, be fully aware of Tachographs & drivers hours. We also require you to have a UK driving licence.How to apply
You can apply for this job by telephoning 0151 3486548 and asking for Shaun Glover.
Is that legal? I’m not so sure it is. It looks discriminatory to me.
MY 1ST ANSWER DELETED AS I
FEEL THAT MY ANSWER
IS ONE THAT WOULD HAVE
UPSET SOMEONE PERHAPS;
2ND TRY
WHAT DO THOSE DRIVERS WHO SPEAK NO ENGLISH
AND HAVE A PERMANENT JOB IN ENGLAND DO AS REGARDS
SAFTEY IN THE WORK PLACE; WHEN PROBLEMS OCCUR ;
SORRY BUT SOME THING IS WRONG;
AND I LIVE AND WORK ABROAD AS MANY OTHER DO;
and yes I can read write and speak the language of
the country where I live and work,
Mike-C:
Wobble:
Welcome to GOV.UKAnybody qualified to do this job?
Description
We require two fluent Polish & English speaking drivers. The vacancy is temporary for 13 weeks, and then it will become permanent. You will be required to liase with both Polish & English drivers & transport staff, therefore it is essential that you are fluent in both languages. The job involves driving & also admin duties in the transport office. Communicating with drivers, de-briefing them & dealing with any queries or problems. You must have held your Class 1 Licence for a minimum of 2 years, be fully aware of Tachographs & drivers hours. We also require you to have a UK driving licence.How to apply
You can apply for this job by telephoning 0151 3486548 and asking for Shaun Glover.Is that legal? I’m not so sure it is. It looks discriminatory to me.
Don’t think it is discriminatory.
If it had asked for a specific nationality of driver to fill the position it would be.
It is specifically asking for driver’s fluent in 2 languages.
Depending on how far along Lucy is with her Polish night school classes,she could have applied. 
gsm31:
Don’t think it is discriminatory.
If it had asked for a specific nationality of driver to fill the position it would be.
It is specifically asking for driver’s fluent in 2 languages.
I’m sure it is. There is no need to be able to speak Polish to drive a truck in the UK. If we have reached the case whereby we need to speak Polish to interact with staff members (in the UK) then that will effectivley prohibit many (most) of us from applying for them jobs.
Mike-C:
I’m sure it is. There is no need to be able to speak Polish to drive a truck in the UK.
I’m sure you’ve seen the list of discriminatory stuff. Things like: Gender, marital status, religion, ethnicity, skin colour, ■■■■■■ orientation and some others. I agree that there’s no need to be able to speak Polish to drive a truck in the UK, but I think the ad was for office staff. Even that makes no difference actually. What was being asked for is a skill or qualification, rather than something about themselves that a person can’t help.
Mike-C:
If we have reached the case whereby we need to speak Polish to interact with staff members (in the UK) then that will effectivley prohibit many (most) of us from applying for them jobs.
Not quite Mike, IMHO it just means that there are some jobs that require applicants to have a certain skill or to hold a qualification. It’s like the argument that a car driver might put forward. “I can drive, so why can’t I drive a truck?” That person only needs to acquire a skill, then he/she can apply for the job. Any of us is at liberty to learn a new skill, but whether we choose to do so is up to the individual.
so has anyone applied ? I notice the number is a liverpool one!
dieseldave:
Mike-C:
I’m sure it is. There is no need to be able to speak Polish to drive a truck in the UK.I’m sure you’ve seen the list of discriminatory stuff. Things like: Gender, marital status, religion, ethnicity, skin colour, ■■■■■■ orientation and some others. I agree that there’s no need to be able to speak Polish to drive a truck in the UK, but I think the ad was for office staff. Even that makes no difference actually. What was being asked for is a skill or qualification, rather than something about themselves that a person can’t help.
The advert is for a HGV driver Dave. Speaking Polish is not a skill or qualification needed to drive a HGV in the UK. Therefore it falls foul of Equality Legislation. The advert effectivley barrs any non Polish speaking divers for applying for it.
dieseldave:
Mike-C:
If we have reached the case whereby we need to speak Polish to interact with staff members (in the UK) then that will effectivley prohibit many (most) of us from applying for them jobs.Not quite Mike, IMHO it just means that there are some jobs that require applicants to have a certain skill or to hold a qualification. It’s like the argument that a car driver might put forward. “I can drive, so why can’t I drive a truck?” That person only needs to acquire a skill, then he/she can apply for the job. Any of us is at liberty to learn a new skill, but whether we choose to do so is up to the individual.
A new skill? Since when has being a fluent Polish speaker been a prerequisite to drive a HGV in the UK?
Well so far they say the Ad has been screened by their ‘Diversity Unit’ and is OK. Lets see what happens next. Thin end of the wedge this lot. I’ve heard other similar stories about UK workers being told they would not like in in [insert name of company] as all the workers speak Polish, so thats the staff they are after.
Description
We require two fluent Polish & English speaking drivers. The vacancy is temporary for 13 weeks, and then it will become permanent. You will be required to liase with both Polish & English drivers & transport staff, therefore it is essential that you are fluent in both languages. The job involves driving & also admin duties in the transport office. Communicating with drivers, de-briefing them & dealing with any queries or problems. You must have held your Class 1 Licence for a minimum of 2 years, be fully aware of Tachographs & drivers hours. We also require you to have a UK driving licence.
It’s not just a driving job Mike, though I think it’s a pity that this industry has reached the stage where company’s need to employ an interpreter to deal with so many none English speaking drivers.
Mike-C:
The advert is for a HGV driver Dave. Speaking Polish is not a skill or qualification needed to drive a HGV in the UK.
Agreed. In fact, Mike, I think you’re spot-on with that.
Mike-C:
Therefore it falls foul of Equality Legislation. The advert effectivley barrs any non Polish speaking divers for applying for it.
IMHO, the advert doesn’t specify that an applicant has to be a particular nationality. There is law on that and it’s quite specific, however there are some exemptions. This isn’t one of them though. They don’t appear to have tried to use an exemption, and seem to have gone for narrowing the field of potential candidates by demanding a particular skill.
I also agree with you that the ad effectively barrs non Polish speakers from applying. They’ve been very careful in their wording of the ad, but IMHO it doesn’t break the law as the law presently stands.
Mike-C:
A new skill? Since when has being a fluent Polish speaker been a prerequisite to drive a HGV in the UK?
It isn’t Mike, that’s why I so completely agree with you on that point. It’s perfectly in order for an employer to ask for a particular skill or ability though. What might rankle with us is that it will probably be a Polish person with English as their second language that gets appointed. Now we’ll get to what I think is the real reason for the issue. I think it’s to do with the fact that the vast majority of Brits are bone idle when it comes to learning foreign languages. Fine. That’s their choice, but I hardly think it’s grounds for complaint, when a choice they made comes back and bites them in the ■■■, because it looks like they want their cake and eat it, don’t you think??
The ability to speak a foreign language opens up extra opportunities. Just like having I.T. skills. Without some ability with I.T., none of us would be posting on here. IMHO, I think we could all agree on that. Is it much of a leap to imagine that, if we expand our skills a little, we’d be able to have a wider choice of job opportunities?? I include myself in that TBH, because there are many jobs that I could have had if I would have dealt with my own weakness in maths. Horses for courses 
In the very early 80’s I did a temporary office based job where the ability to speak German was a requirement. I had to speak to Germans to give addresses and directions and translate the items on freight manifests. I can’t see how that would break any law TBH. I was able to do the job and actually worked from home sometimes. If any of us spoke Polish, we’d be able to apply for the job in question. It seems quite straightforward IMHO.
Mike-C:
Well so far they say the Ad has been screened by their ‘Diversity Unit’ and is OK. Lets see what happens next. Thin end of the wedge this lot. I’ve heard other similar stories about UK workers being told they would not like in in [insert name of company] as all the workers speak Polish, so thats the staff they are after.
Yes Mike, it’s well worth watching, because if they eventually say “you can’t work here because you’re not Polish” they’d have some explaining to do. Also, they might try paying below the minimum wage or shortcutting on Health and Safety, or doing the staff out of correct holiday entitlements. The authorities keep their eye on “smartly” worded ads like this though. 
Mike-C:
Thin end of the wedge this lot.
It might be, so as you say, “let’s see what happens next,” because if they break the law, I’d enjoy reading about what happens to them. Nobody like a smartarse
tachograph:
It’s not just a driving job Mike, though I think it’s a pity that this industry has reached the stage where company’s need to employ an interpreter to deal with so many none English speaking drivers.
I think it’s a pity too. Without going into the reasons for it, the fact remains that there is a driver shortage. I’m the last person to blindly agree with companies/firms/bosses, but who can blame them for filling vacancies, provided they do it legally??
If there’s two loads to go, none of us can drive more than one truck at a time. Lots of drivers have left the industry for many varying reasons, companies are also expanding in line with the general population, so how would shoppers react if there was nothing on the shelves?? Somebody simply has to do the driving. Due to the nature of language, the fact that they might need a tranlator is probably only temporary anyway IMHO.
The reason this industry is in such a state is MONEY or lack of it to reward the drivers with a sensible wage for doing the job, it may only be sitting on your ■■■■ driving but it still requires an expensive test and a certain amount of skill. What will happen when the drivers cpc comes into force ? Will our foreign labour be able to sidestep that as well as NOT taking a UK test ?
It is coming something when you can earn the same money stacking a shelf as driving the goods to the store.
MrReliable:
The reason this industry is in such a state is MONEY or lack of it to reward the drivers with a sensible wage for doing the job, it may only be sitting on your ■■■■ driving but it still requires an expensive test and a certain amount of skill. What will happen when the drivers cpc comes into force ? Will our foreign labour be able to sidestep that as well as NOT taking a UK test ?
It is coming something when you can earn the same money stacking a shelf as driving the goods to the store.
Yes, MrReliable, I think you’ve hit several nails firmly on the head.
Money. If we take this even further, I think the reason the money is so bad is that we (as Brits) tend not to stick together. Then add to that the question of poor leadership, because what applies to drivers also applies to managers. I think the question then becomes: Are the customers willing to pay more for their goods?? It doesn’t matter whether it’s pallets or bulk raw materials, or finished items on supermarket shelves-- nobody can get blood out of a stone. This is where I believe the question implodes upon itself. We’re supermarket customes too 
What would we do if our normal supermarket put up prices so that they could pay more for their haulage, so that the boss could pay more wages? (Honest answer required ) IMHO, the whole house of cards would then fall down. It’s well known that margins are already tight in this industry, so quite simply a firm can’t pay what it doesn’t have.
That’s why I mentioned leadership, or the lack of it. It starts right at the top IMHO. If firms were led by higher calibre managers and owners, the sums would stack up. We have a free market economy, which includes but is not limited to the logistics industry, so it’s left to market forces to decide the going rate for any given job. It’s a very complex question, and IMHO there’s no easy answer. IMHO, the question is that big that it disappears over the horizon. However, some facts remain, even though they might be uncomfortable for some people.
- Drivers are leaving the industry in large numbers. (The reasons are many and complex.)
- The rate at which they’re being replaced is less than the rate at which they’re leaving. (The reasons are many and complex.)
The unavoidable result is a black hole. Firms have to deal with this as best they can, or perish. - A company is doing its best to survive / grow by employing Poles.
Although I can’t see that what the company in question has done is actually illegal, I do take the point that their tactics might seem questionable. - (This one is the best IMHO) In a number of areas, there is the opportunity for good / experienced drivers to pick and choose the work they’ll do.
In some ways, there’s never been a better time to be a driver.
Remembering back to when I started, most motors were clapped out sheds. You kipped across the seats with no night heater and suffered all that for a really crap wage. If you didn’t like it, there were 10 drivers queueing up for your job. That’s the way it was. Nowadays, firms are actually competing with each other on the question of driver retention. It’s still a very complex question though.
I know about discrimination law, but this is about Equality of Opportunity . There is legislation on it, and it is specificaly applicable to any government, local authority bodies. i.e the governments Job Centre plus. There are exemptions as you say. If they wanted call centre staff who had to ring Poland and liase or deal with Polish customers, then that would be a justifiable request. However, there is no requirement to speak Polish to drive a class one vehicle and help out with paperwork etc… Interesting to note, i can’t remember word for word what she said but the TC Beverley Bell sounded a warning to employers not so long ago along the lines that they should make sure all their employees could read, write and speak English if employing them here. The amount of factorys and RDC’s i go to and ask where is the toilet/coffee machine/goods in etc… and i am met with the reply “no speak English” or “no understand” is unreal. I take your point that with regards to language we are ignorant. I dropped all mine at school, but even so Polish wasn’t an available course. Its not a co incidence that while we are all so ignorant as regards having a second tounge, most countries learn English as a second one. Its the most popular language and thats why we are lax. (don’t start counting the Chinese population !!)
Dobranoc !!!
correct mike c . b bell did say firms should make sure that employees were proficent in english so as to understand defect sheets warning notice ect
i think it was affter she visited a bus company in manchester becuse of high number of accidents in fleet. i think she re licence for a few weeks
will the last one out of poland put light out please
Mike-C:
I know about discrimination law, but this is about Equality of Opportunity . There is legislation on it, and it is specificaly applicable to any government, local authority bodies. i.e the governments Job Centre plus. There are exemptions as you say. If they wanted call centre staff who had to ring Poland and liase or deal with Polish customers, then that would be a justifiable request.
Now I see where you’re coming from Mike.
Sorry I was a bit slow to catch on there 
Still, it’s like you said in your earlier post— let’s wait and see.
Mike-C:
i can’t remember word for word what she said but the TC Beverley Bell sounded a warning to employers not so long ago along the lines that they should make sure all their employees could read, write and speak English if employing them here.
That’s right too Mike. She did indeed. IIRC, it was a bus company who’d employed a fairly large number of Poles whose English was clearly below the mark. Again IIRC, she took a large number of their buses off the road for a while-- I bet that hurt 
Mike-C:
The amount of factorys and RDC’s i go to and ask where is the toilet/coffee machine/goods in etc… and i am met with the reply “no speak English” or “no understand” is unreal.
Again very true Mike. Same here. I’d add that I used to drive a minibus (don’t ask ) for a local factory. My job was to run female agency workers home when their shift ended at 22:00. My run was to Northwich and Winsford from Sandycroft. We had a laugh at some of the directions they gave me. A fair number of them were Poles, but there were several other nationalities as well.
Mike-C:
I take your point that with regards to language we are ignorant. I dropped all mine at school, but even so Polish wasn’t an available course. Its not a co incidence that while we are all so ignorant as regards having a second tounge, most countries learn English as a second one. Its the most popular language and thats why we are lax. (don’t start counting the Chinese population !!)Dobranoc !!!
It’s a sign of the ever changing times Mike. Back when we were at school, Poland was a Warsaw pact country under the full weight of Communism.
By the way, I went to my dentist today-- he’s Polish and an excellent dentist TBF.
Dobra what 
I have a question on the issue of non english speaking drivers.
I believe a hearing test is still part of the medical, the reason being that although being deaf doesn’t affect the ability to drive a certain level of hearing is necessary to enable communication in an emergency.
So a licence can be refused for having a disability which could make communication difficult but not for being unable to speak the language?
Tony1968:
I have a question on the issue of non english speaking drivers.I believe a hearing test is still part of the medical, the reason being that although being deaf doesn’t affect the ability to drive a certain level of hearing is necessary to enable communication in an emergency.
So a licence can be refused for having a disability which could make communication difficult but not for being unable to speak the language?
I used to work with a bloke who drove artics who was deaf, his disability never stopped him getting a licence.