I knew it wouldn't be long before I asked... I need help!

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

I started work yesterday driving a mixer & today they gave me the keys to “my” truck… a N reg 3000 series Foden. OK not a problem, I’m new & can’t expect the best tackle thought I. Then I found out it had a non synchro box, I’ve never driven anything with that type of gearbox & I can’t do it!!!

I know the principle of matching engine revs to gearbox speed & I can do the upshifts ok but the downshifts are a nightmare. Missed gears, mucho noise & loss of speed making me feel like a right plonker. Very occasionally I get it right but most of the time it’s a wash out.

Has anyone got any tips?

2

Keep at it.This will come with experiance,the more you drive it the better you’ll become. :wink:

3

Ahhhh…The sweet sound of the “Tubular Bells” being played. :laughing: :laughing:

It does get easier, if you can go up the box in your first day then by the end of the week you will be able do come down through it. Also try dropping 2 gears rather then one, as when you start driving a twin split you usually sky the revs for the down shift, so by dropping 2 gears you are more likely to be matched. Just have a play, it does take a week or so to get use to them - but once you do you will never want to go back to another box. :smiley: :smiley:

4

smcaul:
Ahhhh…The sweet sound of the “Tubular Bells” being played. :laughing: :laughing:
. Just have a play, it does take a week or so to get use to them - but once you do you will never want to go back to another box. :smiley: :smiley:

I dunno about tubular bells… more like a pack of snarling wolves & I think I’d prefer a box of just about anything at the moment :slight_smile:

Thanks for the input though guys, I’ll try again tomorrow but it’s not made me any more confident thats for sure!

5

Keep at it. The principle of matching engine revs to gearbox speed is called double declutching. The downshifts require a little more planning than the upshifts, as you have to get the little blip of the throttle in after you’ve knocked it out of gear and that takes time. It will come with practice and before long you’ll be doing it automatically :wink:. Even on synchromesh boxes, but I bet your playing a better tune than me at the munite :laughing:.

6

Melchett, you just need to practise as no amount of helpful tips willbeat the on the job practise, try to take it easy(i know thats easyier said than done) ,and as people have put foward use the double declutching method, when we had NON-syncro boxes at our firm ,the new drivers all ways got given a old lorry and after a few drives with a older driver were left on there own, and so they could learn and improve before graduating to a better lorry, YOU will become more fluent with the gearbox as time goes bye and do so do not worry just enjoy the learning phase, we have all gone through it mate, ALL BEST

7

Melchett,
A few tips, some already mentioned.
Double de-clutch. You will get the rhythm - dip, out of gear, dip, into next.
Get into the habit of noticing the speed at which you change up. That, or just below it, is the speed you change down in a particular gear.
Again try to notice and remember the revs at the top of each gear going up. This is where you need to blip or build the revs to in changing down the same gears.

Sounds complicated but the principle is obvious if you think about it and it will be 2nd nature before long.
Maybe one day, like me, you will come to appreciate and prefer the crash over the synchro. If you’re doing it right it is certainly less wearing on elbow and shoulder joints over the years.

Happy crashing!

Salut, David.

8

don`t try to rush through the gears.nice and steady does it,you will feel the difference :smiley:

9

Driving a non syncro box is like making love to a beautiful woman Paul :stuck_out_tongue:

You have to be masterful yet gentle, you have to take things slowly have the right conditions and dont rush it :slight_smile:

From the SWISS TONY school of driving :wink:

10

To understand Double De-clutching, you first needs to know how a driveline works.

It’s much easier with diagrams, but I’ll have a go.

The Clutch is best considered as a sandwich, or rather a Ring Doughnut sandwich. It has three major components. The Flywheel, which is attached to the Crankshaft and rotates at Engine speed. The Pressure Plate, which is attached to the Flywheel, and therefore also rotates at Engine speed. The ‘filling’ in the sandwich is the Clutch Plate which is attached to the Primary shaft of the gearbox. When the Clutch pedal is depressed, the Clutch Plate disengages from the the Flywheel and Pressure Plate and rotates freely of them.

The Primary shaft of the gearbox drives a Lay Shaft. An independently rotating shaft which has a number of gears which, through moving the gear lever, can be made to align with other gears connected to the Output shaft. The only time that the Primary shaft is directly connected Output shaft is in Top gear, when the Lay shaft becomes redundant (but still rotates).

The Output shaft, obvious from its name, is connected to the driveline and will always be rotating at a speed relative to the final drive (Drive Axle).

On a Syncromesh gearbox, each of these cog engagements between the Layshaft and the Output shaft, is preceded by a polished bevel against which a bronze cone is pressured, a sort of mini-clutch, which either speeds up or slows down the helically cut cog accordingly.

On a ‘Crash Box’, the gears are straight cut and do not have this ‘mini-clutch’ and therefore the driver has to replicate this action manually from the driving seat.

When changing up. Disengage the clutch. Move the Gear lever to Neutral. Re-engage the Clutch, thereby reconnecting the the Crankshaft to the Primary shaft. Allow the revs to fall, which will have the effect of reducing the speed of the Primary shaft, and therefore the Lay shaft. The Lay shaft should now be rotating at a speed (roughly) consistent with the output shaft. Then disengage the clutch and select the next appropriate higher gear.

Changing down is very similar. Disengage clutch. Select Neutral. Re-engage clutch. Advance the Engine speed to speed up the rotation of the Primary shaft and the Lay shaft to accommodate the rotational speed of the output shaft. Disengage the clutch and select the lower gear.

Eaton twin-splitter. It’s demise was Noise. It utilised straight cut gears which are inherently noisier than helically cut gears.

11

Krankee:
To understand Double De-clutching, you first needs to know how a driveline works.

It’s much easier with diagrams, but I’ll have a go.

The Clutch is best considered as a sandwich, or rather a Ring Doughnut sandwich. It has three major components. The Flywheel, which is attached to the Crankshaft and rotates at Engine speed. The Pressure Plate, which is attached to the Flywheel, and therefore also rotates at Engine speed. The ‘filling’ in the sandwich is the Clutch Plate which is attached to the Primary shaft of the gearbox. When the Clutch pedal is depressed, the Clutch Plate disengages from the the Flywheel and Pressure Plate and rotates freely of them.

The Primary shaft of the gearbox drives a Lay Shaft. An independently rotating shaft which has a number of gears which, through moving the gear lever, can be made to align with other gears connected to the Output shaft. The only time that the Primary shaft is directly connected Output shaft is in Top gear, when the Lay shaft becomes redundant (but still rotates).

The Output shaft, obvious from its name, is connected to the driveline and will always be rotating at a speed relative to the final drive (Drive Axle).

On a Syncromesh gearbox, each of these cog engagements between the Layshaft and the Output shaft, is preceded by a polished bevel against which a bronze cone is pressured, a sort of mini-clutch, which either speeds up or slows down the helically cut cog accordingly.

On a ‘Crash Box’, the gears are straight cut and do not have this ‘mini-clutch’ and therefore the driver has to replicate this action manually from the driving seat.

When changing up. Disengage the clutch. Move the Gear lever to Neutral. Re-engage the Clutch, thereby reconnecting the the Crankshaft to the Primary shaft. Allow the revs to fall, which will have the effect of reducing the speed of the Primary shaft, and therefore the Lay shaft. The Lay shaft should now be rotating at a speed (roughly) consistent with the output shaft. Then disengage the clutch and select the next appropriate higher gear.

Changing down is very similar. Disengage clutch. Select Neutral. Re-engage clutch. Advance the Engine speed to speed up the rotation of the Primary shaft and the Lay shaft to accommodate the rotational speed of the output shaft. Disengage the clutch and select the lower gear.

Eaton twin-splitter. It’s demise was Noise. It utilised straight cut gears which are inherently noisier than helically cut gears.

:open_mouth: erm…yeh…thats right :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

12

Melchett:
I started work yesterday driving a mixer & today they gave me the keys to “my” truck… a N reg 3000 series Foden. OK not a problem, I’m new & can’t expect the best tackle thought I. Then I found out it had a non synchro box, I’ve never driven anything with that type of gearbox & I can’t do it!!!

I know the principle of matching engine revs to gearbox speed & I can do the upshifts ok but the downshifts are a nightmare. Missed gears, mucho noise & loss of speed making me feel like a right plonker. Very occasionally I get it right but most of the time it’s a wash out.

Has anyone got any tips?

Simple way of doing it, and the way I was taught ( I passed my test on a Gardner-engined Atkinson with a 10-speed Fuller):

Write down/learn the max speeds in each gear. Then, coming down the box, slow down to 2mph above the max speed for the next gear down, out of gear, floor the accelerator to max revs, then dip the clutch and it will slot straight in. Then practice!!

Then learn to deal with slower upshifts going uphill, and all the other permutations of upshift/downshift and uphill/downhill. Once you’ve got it, it’s very satisfying! And you’ll find that you don’t need the clutch either.

13

Well guys, what can I say…except THANK YOU!!! & I want your babies :slight_smile:

I went into it with a bit more confidence after reading the replies here &, while yesterday was only a slight improvement, today was “almost” reasonable.

At least now I’m getting the gears, still with noise, but they are at least now going in & I’m not holding up all the traffic giving us all a bad name :wink:

A big thanks to you all!!!

14

Glad to see your getting the hang of it Melchett :smiley:

15

I’m not sure what happened to my first post on this; maybe I never pressed “Submit”.

Anyway, others have described the technique, so I won’t do it again in detail, but…

  • On downwards shifts, rev the engine in neutral up to about 500-1000 RPM above the previous speed.
  • When you go to engage the new gear (going up or down), start by pushing the gearstick in very gently. You will hear and feel it crunch a bit; wait for the crunching to subside, as the clutch plate slows down to the speed of the gear you want, then push the gearstick into gear properly. Once you get more experienced, you will get to know the speed you want, so you will be able to rev the engine more accurately, and you’ll get less crunching.
  • On both upward and downward shifts, if you take too long getting the new gear, the clutch plate can slow down too much, and you then won’t get the gear at all. Don’t panic, just shift into neutral proper, rev the engine with the clutch up again, and have another go.

Good luck :slight_smile:

16

Nicely put Mr F, as you sit the gear lever in the gate keep just enough pressure on the stick to feel the stop, but not enough to create the ‘crunching’ sound, as the revs fall off to match the speed of the gear the stick will fall in on its own, you won’t need to push.