No selective quoting at all! Is that not what you said? Paying Ā£12-15 over 4 nights adds up!
Lucy:
Night-out money is to cover your driversā PERSONAL[/i] expenses, NOT[/i] to palm off your business costs. [/quote] I see parking in a place of the drivers choice that charges a fee, to be a personal expense. Nowhere did I state that the vehicle would be left in an unsecure loctation. > Lucy: > I speak as someone who has run a truck on containers, by the way, so no point trying to convince me you are justified in abusing your drivers this way. Been where you are, mate. Itās uncalled for and out of order
What adds up is the interest on the overdraft, which I donāt get refunded. So selective quoting. Yes, parking adds up for the operator too, but itās a cost like any other.
There is no such thing as a free, secure location. Itās your truck, you pay to park it. I assume that if a box gets broken into or you lose diesel or whatever because the truck is in a dodgy layby, you wonāt blame the driver when heās chosen not to pay to help run your business for you.
Why is the fact that I speak from experience here so funny? It costs you nothing. You claim it back against your tax bill.
Tramper:
No selective quoting at all! Is that not what you said? :
You changed .
Not all employers pay parking - there are a few up here who donāt for ācashflow reasonsāā¦which funnily enough is why I donāt pay when I donāt have to. I get the money back, sure, but not the interest on my overdraft that was generated whilst I was waiting. Pay Ā£12-15 out 4 nights a week and it soon adds up
Into
Not all employers pay parking - Pay Ā£12-15 out 4 nights a week and it soon adds up.
You cannot expect anyone to respect your views if you do this sort of thing. It is dishonest, and anybody can see that.
Lucy:
There is no such thing as a free, secure location.
Not true.
Lucy:
Itās your truck, you pay to park it.
Why? when parking is availble fro nothing.
Lucy:
I assume that if a box gets broken into or you lose diesel or whatever because the truck is in a dodgy layby, you wonāt blame the driver
Should the driver be unlucky enough to suffer such losses, he would not be held liable, no.
Lucy:
when heās chosen not to pay to help run your business for you.
He is paid Ā£25 per night out for personal expenses, what he chooses to spend that on is up to him
Lucy:
Why is the fact that I speak from experience here so funny? It costs you nothing. You claim it back against your tax bill.
Quite, but I already do, night out money is reclaimed against the tax bill. Funny, because Iād expected you to say that! Anyway, My name is Earl is on. Much more interesting that this. Bye
Ok, so you can have deals with other firms re:parking, granted. The point is it neednāt cost anyone anything. You can reclaim it, the driver canāt. So whatās the problem?
Lucy:
Ok, so you can have deals with other firms re:parking, granted. The point is it neednāt cost anyone anything. You can reclaim it, the driver canāt. So whatās the problem?
There is no problem, the driver has no need to reclaim anything, as he has enough money in the pot to pay for parking should he so desire. The average night out payment is around Ā£17, which is what I would be paying if I were to change my policy and shell out for parking. Which is more benificial, you decide.
i get Ā£27.50 per night out parking on top of that , all be it a month later in my wages but i get it back . if you aint paying parking i aint doing nights out. full stop i aint paying out of my expenses to park you truck. jon
Harry Monk:
You changed Not all employers pay parking - there are a few up here who donāt for ācashflow reasonsāā¦which funnily enough is why I donāt pay when I donāt have to. I get the money back, sure, but not the interest on my overdraft that was generated whilst I was waiting. Pay Ā£12-15 out 4 nights a week and it soon adds up
Into
Not all employers pay parking - Pay Ā£12-15 out 4 nights a week and it soon adds up.
No, I changed nothing, I meerly edited the sentence to remove irrelivent information. What was said was āPay Ā£12-15 out 4 nights a week and it soon adds upā A statement which is very true, whichever side of the fence your standing on.
Harry Monk:
You cannot expect anyone to respect your views if you do this sort of thing. It is dishonest, and anybody can see that.
I never āexpectā anyone to respect my veiws, they are offered in the spirit of democracy, and are an opinion as valid as any other. As for being dishonest, I suggest that you re-read what was posted .
jonboy:
i get Ā£27.50 per night out parking on top of that [/quote]
Thats very good money Jon. > jonboy: > If you aint paying parking i aint doing nights out. full stop. I aināt paying out of my expenses to park your truck. OK.
But they do, donāt they. Night out money is a tax-free allowance granted by the IR to cover the extra PERSONAL cost incurred by a worker by being away from home. Personal costs are defined as those which relate purely to the needs of the worker, not those of the business.
Because the parking of commercial vehicles is considered by the IR to be a business expense, it is tax deductible for the employer. If it were considered as part of the employeeās costs that would not be the case - the IR donāt let you off paying money for no reason.
Night out money also saves you as an employer from the tax and NI contributions which you would otherwise be making on that part of the driverās wage. Ok, so maybe night our money shouldnāt be considered part of the wage at all, but in the real world you know and I know that it is.
Paying parking expenses seperately from night-out money costs you nothing. You just give the receipts to whoever does your books along with the rest. What you pay in parking you donāt pay in tax. You lose nothing.
So what do you gain? Good working relations; better retention (since by not paying parking you are in the minority as an employer these days); the ability to recruit more experienced drivers; extra security for your trucks and their fuel/load, which will ultimately save you on insurance if you avoid even one theft event (bearing in mind that many insurance companies simply will not pay if you are not in a recognised secure placeā¦and even one claim will increase premiums)ā¦the list goes on.
This is something which costs you nothing and fosters goodwill and other more financial benefits. I really fail to see the problem. I mean, why pay tax when you donāt have to? Why give Gordon Brown money to fritter when you can improve the lives of the employees for whom you have a duty of care at no expense instead?
Lucy:
Night out money is a tax-free allowance granted by the IR to cover the extra PERSONAL cost incurred by a worker by being away from home. Personal costs are defined as those which relate purely to the needs of the worker, not those of the business.
Quite correct, and if the worker feels the need to pay for parking for the night, rather than take advantage of a free place thats up to them
[/quote]
Lucy:
Night out money also saves you as an employer from the tax and NI contributions which you would otherwise be making on that part of the driverās wage.
Night out money is a tax-free allowance granted by the IR to cover the extra PERSONAL cost incurred by a worker by being away from home. It has nothing to do with the drivers wage
Lucy:
Paying parking expenses seperately from night-out money costs you nothing. You just give the receipts to whoever does your books along with the rest. What you pay in parking you donāt pay in tax. You lose nothing.
I lose around Ā£4000 per year in cash flow as I get the money back on an annual basis and as you yourself stated at the begining of this conversation, I lose the interset on that amount.
Lucy:
So what do you gain? Good working relations; better retention (since by not paying parking you are in the minority as an employer these days); the ability to recruit more experienced drivers; extra security for your trucks and their fuel/load, which will ultimately save you on insurance if you avoid even one theft event (bearing in mind that many insurance companies simply will not pay if you are not in a recognised secure placeā¦and even one claim will increase premiums)ā¦the list goes on.
What do my drivers gain through having more money in their pay packet (remember them? ) Security is not the issue here,
Lucy:
This is something which costs you nothing and fosters goodwill and other more financial benefits. I really fail to see the problem. I mean, why pay tax when you donāt have to? Why give Gordon Brown money to fritter when you can improve the lives of the employees for whom you have a duty of care at no expense instead?
Increasing the amount in the pay packet has a greater effect on the lives of my employees, than them squandering money on insufficent overnight parking facilities.
Lucy, its very late, and I bid you good night
Lucy:
Night out money is a tax-free allowance granted by the IR to cover the extra PERSONAL cost incurred by a worker by being away from home. Personal costs are defined as those which relate purely to the needs of the worker, not those of the business.
Quite correct, and if the worker feels the need to pay for parking for the night, rather than take advantage of a free place thats up to them
Your insurance company may see that differently. Have you actually asked them? If your premiums rise because of an unnecessary theft, will you still think thatās the case? What about the fine print on your subcontractā¦whoās liable in the case of theft if recognised secure parking isnāt used?
Lucy:
Night out money also saves you as an employer from the tax and NI contributions which you would otherwise be making on that part of the driverās wage.
Night out money is a tax-free allowance granted by the IR to cover the extra PERSONAL cost incurred by a worker by being away from home. It has nothing to do with the drivers wage
Lucy:
Paying parking expenses seperately from night-out money costs you nothing. You just give the receipts to whoever does your books along with the rest. What you pay in parking you donāt pay in tax. You lose nothing.
I lose around Ā£4000 per year in cash flow as I get the money back on an annual basis and as you yourself stated at the begining of this conversation, I lose the interset on that amount.
Ok, I can see that, although since in that case you should only be paying the tax yearly, I still fail to see where you lose. You pay less tax at the end of the year. It makes no difference to the interest in the meantime - maybe time to get a new accountant? If it really is a case of paying tax more often than reclaiming it (which is a new one on me, and I do the books for TNUK which is Ltd as well as having done them for the wagon as a Sole Trader in the past), then why not just make it a yearly bonus? Better than not repaying it at all.
Lucy:
So what do you gain? Good working relations; better retention (since by not paying parking you are in the minority as an employer these days); the ability to recruit more experienced drivers; extra security for your trucks and their fuel/load, which will ultimately save you on insurance if you avoid even one theft event (bearing in mind that many insurance companies simply will not pay if you are not in a recognised secure placeā¦and even one claim will increase premiums)ā¦the list goes on.
What do my drivers gain through having more money in their pay packet (remember them? ) Security is not the issue here,
Again, your insurance company may see that differently, as may the people from whom you subcontract. Your drivers gain by not wasting money by not paying YOUR business expenses (as recognised as such by the IR) out of a tax allowance payable for their PERSONAL expenses.
Lucy:
This is something which costs you nothing and fosters goodwill and other more financial benefits. I really fail to see the problem. I mean, why pay tax when you donāt have to? Why give Gordon Brown money to fritter when you can improve the lives of the employees for whom you have a duty of care at no expense instead?
Increasing the amount in the pay packet has a greater effect on the lives of my employees, than them squandering money on insufficent overnight parking facilities.
Lucy, its very late, and I bid you good night
Thatās the point. Itās a means of increasing the amount in their pay packets without it costing you anything!!!
Morning Lucy, it would appear that we are going around in circles.
Lucy:
Your insurance company may see that differently. Have you actually asked them? If your premiums rise because of an unnecessary theft, will you still think thatās the case? What about the fine print on your subcontractā¦whoās liable in the case of theft if recognised secure parking isnāt used?
Again, you are making the assumption, wrongly, that secure parking is not availible. Fine print on sub contracts? Contracts, in writing?
Lucy:
Thatās the point. Itās a means of increasing the amount in their pay packets without it costing you anything!!!
To pay the parking charges incurred on a daily basis would mean reducing the night out payment in line with the local average. I donāt see that as benificial to the drivers wage packet. Your argument is based on lack of security and good will, giving people the choice creates the good will and security, as Iāve stated on countless occasions is not an issue.
jonboy:
i get Ā£27.50 per night out parking on top of that , all be it a month later in my wages but i get it back . if you aint paying parking i aint doing nights out. full stop i aint paying out of my expenses to park you truck. jon [/quote] this is the allowence for a vehicle without a sleeper cab for a vehicle with its only Ā£19.77 i get Ā£19 and only Ā£5 toward parking anyone know any decent jobs
Conor:
For those who are employed, I canāt understand for one minute why you do not pay as youāll get reimbursed.
Not all firms - the company I was tramping for 96-98 didnāt, and the night-out money wasnāt that good.
I can see both Lucy & Trampers sides of this but iād be tempted to think that if you offered drivers the choice of Ā£25 per night wherever they park or Ā£17 per night plus the parking fee back for the nights they did use MSA/truckstops, the majority of them would take the Ā£25 ā¦ and avoid the MSAās etc.
jonboy:
i get Ā£27.50 per night out parking on top of that , all be it a month later in my wages but i get it back . if you aint paying parking i aint doing nights out. full stop i aint paying out of my expenses to park you truck. jon [/quote] this is the allowence for a vehicle without a sleeper cab for a vehicle with its only Ā£19.77 i get Ā£19 and only Ā£5 toward parking anyone know any decent jobs [/quote] Stobart(the devil incarnate ) pay Ā£20 night out, give you Ā£6 daily meal allowanceā¦ AND PAY ALL PARKING (wakefield or barlborough mezzz!)
.
As for being dishonest, I suggest that you re-read what was posted 
.
) Security is not the issue here,