While not being able to offer any help whatsoever with your problem. But you have my sympathy 100% because the same thing has just happened to me (Thursday) I was due to go back to my regular job that I have had for 2 years and more only to find out thru the jungle telegraph that the owner wants to give my job to a German, and the barsteward never hat the guts to tell me himself.
Thanks for that Quinny, I’ll give them a ring Monday morning and see what they say.
I don’t think I’ve got a leg to stand on, but I’m just a bit peeved at the way they did it, dragging me in at the end of a 13hr shift with no warning, putting me on the spot, asking about hours worked weeks ago like I’m supposed to remember stuff like that on the spot.
And, at the end, I was told there was no appeal procedure due to me not being there 12mths, but I’m sure that’s wrong, and even though I don’t think it’d get me anywhere, I’d like the chance of an appeal with representation and time to gather any records I may have (don’t think I’ve got anything that’ll help though) and not be dead on my feet at the time.
Shuttle, you’re bang on mate.
Coffeeholic:
waynedl:
Mr B:
I’m sorry to say but I think youre screwed firstly you get 15 mins at the end of shift for paper work etc if you’ve been claiming time for washing eating and [zb] that’s all your time and booking it is wrong secondly claiming night out money in your home base is also wrong. I don’t think there is any need to tell you the accusations before hand.I wasn’t claiming for washing / eating and [zb].
I just put 15 mins from when I took my tacho out to the finish time. This was because my time sheet stayed in the truck and the notes were in the office.
What I said was I didn’t go straight back to the truck, hence the tacho was taken out before I left the truck. But I went from truck to get notes, then do my other stuff.
Sometimes getting the notes only takes 5 mins, sometimes it takes 45 mins, it’s swings and roundabouts.
Did you make manual entries on the tacho to account for the 15 minutes? It’s a small point but could count against you if you didn’t.
No I didn’t, most people don’t though do they?
I know we should, but I’m sure we’ve all done little bits after our tacho’s out that’s on our time sheets or between getting out of the truck and actually clocking out?
be hard mate you not being there twelve months but theres always hope 
A bit severe i think, any decent manager or supervisor would take you to one side with a smirk and say something along the lines of “Do you think we were born yesterday?”
Falsifying timesheets and recorded interview is a bit strong, especially after “asking” you to transfer to another depot.
But there may be another reason.
- accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility
Or maybe Spanky is correct and the marriage certificate is missing 
Wheel Nut:
A bit severe i think, any decent manager or supervisor would take you to one side with a smirk and say something along the lines of “Do you think we were born yesterday?”
Falsifying timesheets and recorded interview is a bit strong, especially after “asking” you to transfer to another depot.
But there may be another reason.
- accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility
Or maybe Spanky is correct and the marriage certificate is missing
I phoned up for the boss man this morning and he’s just phoned me back, I mentioned again about the appeal and he said I don’t have any right to appeal due to being there under 12mths but then went on to say that if I thought I had a leg to stand on then go ahead, but he’s got all the proof plus me on the dictaphone admitting claiming the nights out whilst at ‘base’ (Leeds).
The accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility really suprised me to be honest, sometimes I can be a little abrupt, but I’ve been very carefull this time due to now being 34 years old and wanting to keep a job and get more financially stable than I’ve been in the years since passing my HGV licences and coming into this industry.
I’ve literally bent over backwards, missing concerts that were notified at time of interview, taking ‘compulsory holidays’ in January because the work was quiet, then being refused time off when I’ve requested it, still turned up on time and got on with my job etc. Being back at base all week then being sent down the road on a Friday. Being told to empty my truck at the end of a day nowhere near base and get a lift back with another driver - with all my gear, in a truck with all his gear, when neither was expecting it etc.
yep, that would be the depot manager (D.H), almost as big a ■■■■■■ as his brother
and before anyone says anything, i have had dealings with the pair of them 
i also believe that Madders can verify what they are like at the Leeds depot
shuttlespanker:
yep, that would be the depot manager (D.H), almost as big a ■■■■■■ as his brotherand before anyone says anything, i have had dealings with the pair of them
i also believe that Madders can verify what they are like at the Leeds depot
I must say, I’ve not spoke or dealt with D.H, although I know who him and his brother are, I’ve not really had any reason to speak to either since I started.
It was I.P who dealt with this.
waynedl:
Coffeeholic:
Did you make manual entries on the tacho to account for the 15 minutes? It’s a small point but could count against you if you didn’t.No I didn’t, most people don’t though do they?
I know we should, but I’m sure we’ve all done little bits after our tacho’s out that’s on our time sheets or between getting out of the truck and actually clocking out?
Yeah, most probably don’t, but it doesn’t help your case when your tacho records show you are on your rest period and you are still booking time on your timesheet, That just weakens your case and gives them something else to beat you with, falsifying tacho records.
44 Tonne Ton:
Ring ACAS
0845 7474747
Lovlyperson:
44 Tonne Ton:
Ring ACAS0845 74747
Try that number again with the extra digit in that you have missed that I posted above…
Ken.
waynedl:
Wheel Nut:
A bit severe i think, any decent manager or supervisor would take you to one side with a smirk and say something along the lines of “Do you think we were born yesterday?”
Falsifying timesheets and recorded interview is a bit strong, especially after “asking” you to transfer to another depot.
But there may be another reason.
- accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility
Or maybe Spanky is correct and the marriage certificate is missing
I phoned up for the boss man this morning and he’s just phoned me back, I mentioned again about the appeal and he said I don’t have any right to appeal due to being there under 12mths but then went on to say that if I thought I had a leg to stand on then go ahead, but he’s got all the proof plus me on the dictaphone admitting claiming the nights out whilst at ‘base’ (Leeds).
The accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility really suprised me to be honest, sometimes I can be a little abrupt, but I’ve been very carefull this time due to now being 34 years old and wanting to keep a job and get more financially stable than I’ve been in the years since passing my HGV licences and coming into this industry.
I’ve literally bent over backwards, missing concerts that were notified at time of interview, taking ‘compulsory holidays’ in January because the work was quiet, then being refused time off when I’ve requested it, still turned up on time and got on with my job etc. Being back at base all week then being sent down the road on a Friday. Being told to empty my truck at the end of a day nowhere near base and get a lift back with another driver - with all my gear, in a truck with all his gear, when neither was expecting it etc.
If you have a Contract in writing for Manchester Depot but not for Leeds then you are lend to the other Depot with still having your Contract with Manchester Depot.
In that case you are not suposed to discuss anything with Leeds.
Your Management is Manchester and you need to contact them as Leeds
1.) failed to forward the Time Sheet to Manchester for accounting your Pay
2.) accused you of Anything they are not Authorisized,as you are employed in Manchester
3.) Prosecuted and Punished for anything they are not liable
4.) Fired you falsely,as you were just lend to them
5.) Refused to give you got the Chance going back to your Depot with telling you false that you are fired.
You need to clear that as straight as possible otherwise you are fired from your Manchester
Depot for not coming to Work
FH16Globetrotter:
The ‘procedures’ you speak of regarding written confirmation etc…These are no longer procedures which companies muct follow to the letter of the law. There were re-issued a few years ago as a set of ACAS guidelines, and whilst a failure to adhere to these guidelines may give your case more weight at a tribunal, a failure to operate within the guidelines does not automatically place the company in a position of wrongdoing.
Not quite.
That’s clearly expressed as an employer’s viewpoint.
Statutory Dispute Resolution was repealed and replaced by the ACAS Code of Practice, not by guidelines.
Employment Tribunals are bound to take into account when an employer fails to follow the Code without good cause and have the ability to raise — or lower — any award by up to 25%
waynedl:
Wheel Nut:
A bit severe i think, any decent manager or supervisor would take you to one side with a smirk and say something along the lines of “Do you think we were born yesterday?”
Falsifying timesheets and recorded interview is a bit strong, especially after “asking” you to transfer to another depot.
But there may be another reason.
- accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility
Or maybe Spanky is correct and the marriage certificate is missing
I phoned up for the boss man this morning and he’s just phoned me back, I mentioned again about the appeal and he said I don’t have any right to appeal due to being there under 12mths but then went on to say that if I thought I had a leg to stand on then go ahead, but he’s got all the proof plus me on the dictaphone admitting claiming the nights out whilst at ‘base’ (Leeds).
The accusations of my attitude and lack of flexibility really suprised me to be honest, sometimes I can be a little abrupt, but I’ve been very carefull this time due to now being 34 years old and wanting to keep a job and get more financially stable than I’ve been in the years since passing my HGV licences and coming into this industry.
I’ve literally bent over backwards, missing concerts that were notified at time of interview, taking ‘compulsory holidays’ in January because the work was quiet, then being refused time off when I’ve requested it, still turned up on time and got on with my job etc. Being back at base all week then being sent down the road on a Friday. Being told to empty my truck at the end of a day nowhere near base and get a lift back with another driver - with all my gear, in a truck with all his gear, when neither was expecting it etc.
i dont think his dictaphone evidence will be valid. i had something similay years back, where a work van got damaged and it was last used by me, i told them it was ok when i parked it up and noticed the damage after it had been serviced, they recorded all this and tried to make out i was admitting damaging it and trying to blame the service people. i claimed wrongful didmissal and their dictaphone evidence could not be used as they had no signed declaration from me agreeing it all to be recorded
As long as the person doing the recording is involved in the conversation it is legal to make the recording without the other persons knowledge. It will have more chance of being allowed as evidence in a civil case rather than a criminal case.
dambuster:
Not quite.That’s clearly expressed as an employer’s viewpoint.
Statutory Dispute Resolution was repealed and replaced by the ACAS Code of Practice, not by guidelines.
Employment Tribunals are bound to take into account when an employer fails to follow the Code without good cause and have the ability to raise — or lower — any award by up to 25%
Not quite! It is in fact the advice I was given by ACAS themselves, only a few months ago!
Also, whilst a failure to follow the ‘code of practice’ MAY be compensated by a 25% uplift in any payments made in the event of the tribunal finding in favour of the employee, a failure to follow the code is not in itself reasonable cause to bring the case to a tribunal. Since in this case the employee has clearly falsified his timesheets (whether he did so consciously is immaterial since there were clear alternative motives behind the discilpinary), then the failure to adhere to the ACAS code (which let’s not forget is voluntary!) is all rather academic.
Do you think your cards were marked a long time ago?
Maybe they asked you to move from the Manchester Depot to Leeds hoping that you’d jack the job in, but you didn’t so they find something that could have been settled with a warning to get rid of you.
This happens a lot in my experience, if your face fits and you do somthing wrong quite often you’ll get a warning, unless it’s so bad that you can’t possibly stay, but if your face doesn’t fit, then you’re out.
we had one sacked and some disiplined for what was going on with there time books,they were finishing at 13.00 ,then getting book signed up then altering the 3 to a 8,18.00 finish instead of 13.00,they were also altering 11.00 finishes to 14.00 finishesetc,etc,some werent even getting books signed,looked at[claiming theyd forgot them],taking them home and filling in what time they wanted and just getting it signed next day,some were writting in finish time and forging signiture.
they decided to continue with time books, but also a time sheet they kept on debreif desk, but you filled end time in not them ,they eventually decided it was best if they wrote in your start and finish time,closing stable door after horse has bolted springs to mind. 
lad who was sacked was filling his boots to the tune of £200+ p.w,alarm bells started to ring with him as he got gready,they checked and some of the signitures] wernt even on shift that day.
drivers will be drivers, but instead of the odd £1 or £2,some just cant help themselfes,£200+ was always going to set the alarm bells ringing.
on your other point were allowed 15 mins to debreif, which as coffee says i always put a manual entry in for,so everything, digi card,time book etc say exactly the same
muckles:
Do you think your cards were marked a long time ago?Maybe they asked you to move from the Manchester Depot to Leeds hoping that you’d jack the job in, but you didn’t so they find something that could have been settled with a warning to get rid of you.
This happens a lot in my experience, if your face fits and you do somthing wrong quite often you’ll get a warning, unless it’s so bad that you can’t possibly stay, but if your face doesn’t fit, then you’re out.
To be honest, I did wonder earlier on in the thread if the employer had simply managed to find a peg on which to hang the coat.
If they wanted the OP there I think they would have just explained that he wasn’t entitled to night out money (this should have been clarified when he was transferred) and that his timesheets had to match his tachograph. I wouldn’t describe it as Gross Misconduct, everybody would have been aware that he was sleeping in the vehicle at Leeds so it’s not as if he has been furtive or secretive in his actions or was hoping that the activity would not be detected.
It speaks volumes that his vehicle went “off-fleet” as soon as he had cleared it out. Essentially he has been made redundant and could have a case for Constructive Dismissal had he worked there longer.
I was in an almost identical situation back in 1992 in the last recession and I said to my then boss “You’re making me redundant, and you are going to say you are making me redundant instead of coming out with this crap so I can at least claim dole”.
He didn’t agree to this so I said “Fair enough, I’m going to grass you up to the Ministry then” and then he did agree to it.
shuttlespanker:
if it was for the company that i eluded to, lets just say, the depot mananger and his brother, the area manager, i wouldn’t ■■■■ on them if they were on firethey will screw you over, and when it goes ■■■■ up, they will deny all knowledge of it
the area manager (P.H.) won’t even talk to me, because he knows full well what would happen
its definatley maritime he is on about.
they would be the last compan… in fact if i had to ask them for a job i would rather sweep the streets 
absolute [zbs].
take legal advice as they come out with a right crock of zb about your rights… dont believe a word they say are downright liars and fabricate everything to suit themselves.
the leeds manager darren heyhoe… words cannot discribe this fella and as for his brother the northern area manager.