Tacho and Hours questions

Few situations I’m not sure about

1. If I have a day driving a 3.5T how do I record it? Do I need to make a manual entry next time I put my card in or what? Same thing for if I were to work somewhere doing non driving work, how do I record it?

2. This one I’m really not proud of. I’m an agency driver and on my last shift I turn up, truck was already loaded up, did my checks, got in and the Tacho said “Tacho error” or “fault” or something. I noticed that the little plastic bit that lifts up and pushes in with the card was missing. The guys there were far from helpful if I asked questions. I was feeling pressured, so fearing the broken machine might do something stupid to it, I decided to not put my card in and record my day on paper. I know I should have just gone in and told them. I dunno, it was 4 in the morning. I haven’t used my card since. What do I do before/when I next use my card?

3. I’ve never made a tacho printout. Should I be doing them routinely? If so how often?

4. I got caught out one day and went over 15 hours by 10 min. Is the 15 hours actually a limit, or is it because you need enough time for daily rest? If you weren’t working the next day, can you still not work over 15 hours?

smog:
Few situations I’m not sure about

1. If I have a day driving a 3.5T how do I record it? Do I need to make a manual entry next time I put my card in or what? Same thing for if I were to work somewhere doing non driving work, how do I record it?

Manual entry showing “Other work”

smog:
2. This one I’m really not proud of. I’m an agency driver and on my last shift I turn up, truck was already loaded up, did my checks, got in and the Tacho said “Tacho error” or “fault” or something. I noticed that the little plastic bit that lifts up and pushes in with the card was missing. The guys there were far from helpful if I asked questions. I was feeling pressured, so fearing the broken machine might do something stupid to it, I decided to not put my card in and record my day on paper. I know I should have just gone in and told them. I dunno, it was 4 in the morning. I haven’t used my card since. What do I do before/when I next use my card?

Keep the paper copy for 28 days, after that put it down to experience but next time tell them there’s a fault and don’t risk it - you owe these people nothing. Did you record it on the back of a printout? There’s only three methods of recording accepted: a manual entry on the tacho, which you should do the next time you use it, written on the back of a printout or written on an analogue chart.

3. I’ve never made a tacho printout. Should I be doing them routinely? If so how often?

As an agency driver I would do them for every shift, this is just for your own benefit, but strictly speaking you only legally NEED to do them to cover an infringement with a good explanation, or when the authorities ask you to do one, or if it’s company policy

4. I got caught out one day and went over 15 hours by 10 min. Is the 15 hours actually a limit, or is it because you need enough time for daily rest? If you weren’t working the next day, can you still not work over 15 hours?

It’s a limit BECAUSE you need a minimum 9 hours for a daily rest - you need to think in terms of 24 hour periods, not calendar days. If stopped with the 28 day record keeping period, you WILL get done for that.

Did you record it on the back of a printout?

No, I wrote it down in a diary. It’s over 20 changes of driving/other work/rests. I’d have to write all that on the printout?

It’s a limit BECAUSE you need a minimum 9 hours for a daily rest - you need to think in terms of 24 hour periods, not calendar days. If stopped with the 28 day record keeping period, you WILL get done for that.

Oh I see, the 24 hour period starts at the start of your shift. That makes sense. Balls. Do you think they’d be more forgiving as I’ve only had my licence 3 months?

smog:
This one I’m really not proud of. I’m an agency driver and on my last shift I turn up, truck was already loaded up, did my checks, got in and the Tacho said “Tacho error” or “fault” or something. I noticed that the little plastic bit that lifts up and pushes in with the card was missing. The guys there were far from helpful if I asked questions. I was feeling pressured, so fearing the broken machine might do something stupid to it, I decided to not put my card in and record my day on paper. I know I should have just gone in and told them. I dunno, it was 4 in the morning. I haven’t used my card since. What do I do before/when I next use my card?

If your tacho card is faulty:
On a tacho roll (or a disc) record details at start and at end of shift. If possible do a print-out too.
Writing it down on a piece of paper isn`t good enough.

"Lost, stolen or malfunctioning driver cards
Driver cards have passed all relevant International Organization for Standardization (ISO) qualified tests and security certification requirements. They are designed to work reliably and securely for their period of validity but, like all cards, can be damaged by abuse. Drivers must take care of their driver card – treating it as if it were a credit card and not subjecting it to excessive force, bending or extremes of temperature.

Where it is impossible to use a driver card (that being when it has been lost, stolen or damaged or is malfunctioning) a driver may drive without the card for a maximum of 15 calendar days (or longer if this is necessary for the vehicle to be returned to its premises) provided that they produce 2 printouts – one at the start of the day and another at the end so long as there is no change of vehicle. Where there is a change of vehicle then a printout will need to be taken at the start and end of the use of vehicle 1 and then a printout at the start and end of vehicle 2 and so on. All printouts must be marked with:

the driver’s name or driver card or licence number, so the driver can be identified
any manual entries needed to show periods of other work, availability, and rest or break
the driver’s signature
The driver must report the problem to DVLA and apply for a new card within seven calendar days."

gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … raph-rules

from the same Gov site:
"When driving a vehicle that is equipped with a digital or smart tachograph, drivers must:

ensure that the tachograph is calibrated by inspecting the calibration plaque or interrogating the tachograph
ensure that their driver card is inserted into the correct slot (driver in slot 1, second driver in slot 2 from the moment they take over the vehicle, and that it is ready for use, before the vehicle is moved
record the country in which they begin and end their daily work period. This must always be carried out at the time of the start or end of the period, even if the card is not to be withdrawn or inserted (for example if the card is left in overnight)
when using the derogation to interrupt rest on journeys involving a ferry or train, the ferry mode must be selected in addition to the rest mode (EU rules only)
carry sufficient supplies of type-approved print roll on board the vehicle so that a printout can be produced at an enforcement officer’s request
ensure that all duties conducted since the driver card was last removed from a tachograph are manually entered onto the card record, using the manual entry facility on the tachograph
ensure that the tachograph is working properly
ensure that through the daily working period the mode button is used correctly to record other work, periods of availability, and rest and breaks
take reasonable steps to protect their card from dirt and damage
use only their own personalised driver card to record driving and other activities they undertake
ensure that the card is not removed from the tachograph during the working day unless otherwise authorised. The rules are not specific on who can authorise removal of the card, but cases where cards can be removed include a change of vehicle, or where another driver will be using the vehicle during a break or rest period
on multi-manning operations ensure that their driver card is placed in the correct slot (slot 1 when they are acting as driver and slot 2 when co-driver on a double-manned journey) when they take over driving
make their cards available for downloading by their employer
be able to produce at the roadside:
charts and any legally required manual records for the current day and the previous 28 calendar days
the driver’s card if they hold one
sign a hard copy of data when required to do so by a DVSA examiner or a police officer"

That is your job.
It is also true that a company has 7 days to repair a tacho. Did you know when the fault started? Under 7 days?
Realistically you wouldn`t have.

I can see that you felt under pressure, but was pressure from people who would pay no fine, and would have no risk of losing their precious new licence.

Maybe consider just walking the next time? I think that is a valid option.

Note: a company where you have been employed for ages, and a new fault occurs, is vastly different to a company who owe you nothing. and who you owe nothing. If they can`t supply a vehicle with a working tacho, no documents to show it has been noted and booked in for repair etc? ■■■■■■■■ to that bunch of chancers.

For van driving all shift it is other work for the eu regs so all that is needed is the start and finish times of that shift

A diary will suffice if done regular but if only now and again then 2 copies of each van shift on tacho printout paper will be ok

ROG:
For van driving all shift it is other work for the eu regs so all that is needed is the start and finish times of that shift

A diary will suffice if done regular but if only now and again then 2 copies of each van shift on tacho printout paper will be ok

Hi ROG. I don’t think a diary is acceptable nowadays - see below recent correspondence from the DVSA when I asked the question. I have since manually entered my non-driving work for the 2 weeks between HGV driving for the last month, but it doesn’t allow for enough records to make a manual entry for any longer than that.

Changes to the EU drivers’ hours and tachograph regulations were made by the EU’s Mobility Package and came into effect on 20 August 2020, which are detailed below.
Regarding how this should be recorded, it says in the guide, in sec 4.3 (Link below):
gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … s-vehicles
The record of other work must be either:
• written manually on a chart; or
• written manually on printout paper a digital or smart tachograph; or
• made by using the manual input facility of a digital or smart tachograph
It is not acceptable to use a logbook, timesheet or any other method to record other work and rest, the only 3 acceptable methods are those I have listed above. Training requirements relating to the operation of tachograph units can be sought from your operator/employer.
Keeping a full set of records is entirely for the purpose of road safety as it allows enforcement officers to ascertain that a driver has complied with all the driving/work limits and the rest requirements.

■■■■■■■■ to that bunch of chancers.

Indeed. I’m not going back to them. They sent me on a round which was further than a full tank of fuel without giving me a fuel card, so I had to buy fuel with my own money that they gave me cash for. They also didn’t seem overly bothered that the temperature in the fridge was reading 20 degrees by the end of the day. Half thawed salmon? Driver to blame also no doubt.

Thanks for the info. Not taking chances from now on.

What is written officially and what they actually accept are two different things

Can you imagine someone who does non driving job mon to fri doing a whole 5 days of printouts (10 in all) if they drove on saturday = does not happen - they use a diary and it is accepted

The authorities can always use the HMRC system to see what tax is paid and for when as well as contacting the non eu regs employer if they want to

ROG:
What is written officially and what they actually accept are two different things

Can you imagine someone who does non driving job mon to fri doing a whole 5 days of printouts (10 in all) if they drove on saturday = does not happen - they use a diary and it is accepted

The authorities can always use the HMRC system to see what tax is paid and for when as well as contacting the non eu regs employer if they want to

So you would still recommend using a diary and manually entering my non-driving days as “?” on the digi card? It would save a lot of wasted time at the beginning of my shift where I make work and break entries for 10 days of work the way I currently do it

Goff118:

ROG:
What is written officially and what they actually accept are two different things

Can you imagine someone who does non driving job mon to fri doing a whole 5 days of printouts (10 in all) if they drove on saturday = does not happen - they use a diary and it is accepted

The authorities can always use the HMRC system to see what tax is paid and for when as well as contacting the non eu regs employer if they want to

So you would still recommend using a diary and manually entering my non-driving days as “?” on the digi card? It would save a lot of wasted time at the beginning of my shift where I make work and break entries for 10 days of work the way I currently do it

yes
You could also use a single print roll saying - refer to diary for non eu reg days

ROG:

Goff118:

ROG:
What is written officially and what they actually accept are two different things

Can you imagine someone who does non driving job mon to fri doing a whole 5 days of printouts (10 in all) if they drove on saturday = does not happen - they use a diary and it is accepted

The authorities can always use the HMRC system to see what tax is paid and for when as well as contacting the non eu regs employer if they want to

So you would still recommend using a diary and manually entering my non-driving days as “?” on the digi card? It would save a lot of wasted time at the beginning of my shift where I make work and break entries for 10 days of work the way I currently do it

yes
You could also use a single print roll saying - refer to diary for non eu reg days

Thanks ROG! That would save time and tacho rolls!

Sent from my DUB-LX1 using Tapatalk

smog:

■■■■■■■■ to that bunch of chancers.

Indeed. I’m not going back to them. They sent me on a round which was further than a full tank of fuel without giving me a fuel card,

It wasn’t Clipper was it? That happened to me many moons ago: a schedule that couldn’t be done in 15 hours and no fuel card. Difference is I phoned them up and told them to come and get me as I was out of time and fuel

ROG:
What is written officially and what they actually accept are two different things

Can you imagine someone who does non driving job mon to fri doing a whole 5 days of printouts (10 in all) if they drove on saturday = does not happen - they use a diary and it is accepted

The authorities can always use the HMRC system to see what tax is paid and for when as well as contacting the non eu regs employer if they want to

What was “acceptable” yesterday, may not be “acceptable” tomorrow.
Those who grew up with the old methods may turn a blind eye, those newly trained, and more aware of newer regs, may not.

I doubt that anyone who thinks a driver is in the wrong will go to the trouble of checking tax records to prove themselves wrong!

My answer is based on current reports from drivers who are following my suggestions

If any driver has been in hot water from using a diary then it seems nobody on here has heard of one

I can only pass on the info gained by reading other recent posts on this site in regards to this subject

smog:
4. I got caught out one day and went over 15 hours by 10 min. Is the 15 hours actually a limit, or is it because you need enough time for daily rest? If you weren’t working the next day, can you still not work over 15 hours?

Have a change of mindset. The LAW says you must have the daily/weekly rest as a MINIMUM. What you do between that is up to you.

Goff118:

ROG:
What is written officially and what they actually accept are two different things

Can you imagine someone who does non driving job mon to fri doing a whole 5 days of printouts (10 in all) if they drove on saturday = does not happen - they use a diary and it is accepted

The authorities can always use the HMRC system to see what tax is paid and for when as well as contacting the non eu regs employer if they want to

So you would still recommend using a diary and manually entering my non-driving days as “?” on the digi card? It would save a lot of wasted time at the beginning of my shift where I make work and break entries for 10 days of work the way I currently do it

If you only use “?” would that show as a false infringement because no weekly rest recorded? or would it need to be a manual entry for “?” say Monday to Friday and rest for Saturday and Sunday if you get what i mean

I failed to do a standard daily rest manual entry a couple of times. So it is showing as “?” on my records. So I did a couple of printouts, filled out the back and emailed them to my TM. He said “thanks very much but what are these for, I can’t see any infringements on your card”

The “?” is considered rest as far as tacho infringements are concerned.

Sent from my DUB-LX1 using Tapatalk

stu675:
I failed to do a standard daily rest manual entry a couple of times. So it is showing as “?” on my records. So I did a couple of printouts, filled out the back and emailed them to my TM. He said “thanks very much but what are these for, I can’t see any infringements on your card”

Goff118:
The “?” is considered rest as far as tacho infringements are concerned.

Sent from my DUB-LX1 using Tapatalk

Good to know. Thanks